Coach Do you still have any faith in Bevo? [POLL]

Do you still believe he should coach this side?

  • Total voters
    428

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Anja_Nees said:
I will say one thing, without getting into the specifics of Bevo. I saw Clarko speak at a function the other day. Not the first time I’ve seen him and whatever you might think of him he is always terrific at these things.

He made one very good point, which is that the good clubs don’t react in the short term. He openly mocked Carlton, Essendon, GC, St Kilda and North for panicking and changing course (coach, president, CEO) every three to four years whenever it seems things aren’t working and bowing to the loud masses or coteries.

He also pointed out that success is never in a straight line and clubs like Collingwood, Geelong and Sydney know it and don’t react short-term.

That certainly doesn’t mean we shouldn’t move on from Bevo if this year doesn’t pan out. I think it does to some explain the desire to stay the course to date. I was seething last night but I frankly expect the club to ignore the short-term backlash.

The noise will be deafening as soon as it becomes clear we won’t make finals (if that happens) but frankly I expect the club to do everything it can to have a good year until then.
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Success may not be a straight line, but the trajectory of our form line is leading straight to a bottom 6 finish.
The writing has been on the wall for quite some time, we lose so many games to absolute tactical ineptitude.
 
dardog said:
Success may not be a straight line, but the trajectory of our form line is leading straight to a bottom 6 finish.
The writing has been on the wall for quite some time, we lose so many games to absolute tactical ineptitude.
Click to expand...
I dispute what 'trajectory' actually means - there's really no such thing as trend lines as much as there is just 'you are this good and you could improve or decrease from this point on' (with some in built regression to the mean). At some point a trend line turns around - if it's after one, two, three years or whatever.
West Coast won the 2018 flag, for example, but were arguably "trending down" after they started the 2017 season 6-2 and proceeded to win 6 and lose 8 of the remaining games in the season, then required extra time and a goal after the siren to win the EF, then lost the SF by 67 points. Many Eagles fans - not just pessimistic ones didn't think they'd even make the finals in 2018. Only One out of Fox Footy's 19 'experts' had them making finals: https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...s/news-story/a504e91934541f5166a470fe187d5638

On the other hand, they were far more likely to win the 2018 flag than general consensus because they were still a team that had won a majority of their games in recent years and had recent finals experience ... you know, counter-factual elements to whether or not we'll be a good team in the future, as opposed to vague beliefs like "trend line".

This is not to dismiss our currently form. I don't think, on balance of probabilities, we'll make finals. But it also doesn't mean that we don't have to equally assume that we will inevitably be a bottom 6 team, or "trends" mean anything significant or whatever.
 

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adogsfan5 said:
Anyone else just feeling off it today? I was so upbeat over summer and now just not feeling much re footy.
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I don't usually get too upset about the state of play, but I'll admit I'm pretty angry at the moment.

Especially with the selector(s).:mad:

They picked a side that couldn't win, and many of them played like they knew it.
 
threenewpadlocks said:
I dispute what 'trajectory' actually means - there's really no such thing as trend lines as much as there is just 'you are this good and you could improve or decrease from this point on' (with some in built regression to the mean). At some point a trend line turns around - if it's after one, two, three years or whatever.
West Coast won the 2018 flag, for example, but were arguably "trending down" after they started the 2017 season 6-2 and proceeded to win 6 and lose 8 of the remaining games in the season, then required extra time and a goal after the siren to win the EF, then lost the SF by 67 points. Many Eagles fans - not just pessimistic ones didn't think they'd even make the finals in 2018. Only One out of Fox Footy's 19 'experts' had them making finals: https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...s/news-story/a504e91934541f5166a470fe187d5638

On the other hand, they were far more likely to win the 2018 flag than general consensus because they were still a team that had won a majority of their games in recent years and had recent finals experience ... you know, counter-factual elements to whether or not we'll be a good team in the future, as opposed to vague beliefs like "trend line".

This is not to dismiss our currently form. I don't think, on balance of probabilities, we'll make finals. But it also doesn't mean that we don't have to equally assume that we will inevitably be a bottom 6 team, or "trends" mean anything significant or whatever.
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Thanks Luke. We get it.
 
adogsfan5 said:
Anyone else just feeling off it today? I was so upbeat over summer and now just not feeling much re footy.
Click to expand...
Yeah the fact that we are so bad to watch has completely taken away any joy I used to get from footy. It’s a chore to watch a whole game now, where I used to run to the toilet in the adds so I didn’t miss a second.
 
BIG_BONTS said:
Making peace with new expectations for a 6th-10th finish after that performance, instead of 2-6.
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Sorry BB, I just can't do that.

That, to me, is the epitome of accepting mediocrity - something we should not be doing with this group of players.
 
Everyone understood why McRae wasn't picked but then picking Dale erases that, not picking Daniel was unbelievable considering the impact he had in the Hawks preseason game then what do you know he does it again against Melbourne, playing 5 new players was too much, buku and gags are still potential players I'm all for giving them games but round 1 Melbourne at the MCG,

I will give them credit for bramble though Duryea should have been replaced a year ago,

If Naughton is getting beaten he needs to play a defensive tagging role on his opponent

We have so many good players through the middle rotate them ffs not Bont libba Treloar every centre bounce this is an untapped resource keep our mids fresher than theirs mix it up ffs
 
adogsfan5 said:
Anyone else just feeling off it today? I was so upbeat over summer and now just not feeling much re footy.
Click to expand...

Unbelievably flat. Next week v Suns will tell me how much I need to care for the rest of the season
 
I’ve been on the fence, love what Bevo has done with bringing us a premiership and another GF in Perth that I got to see with my Dad and sons…. But I’m leaning to a new voice, a new game plan as much to shake up the current playing group than anything.
I see this season playing out in thirds.
Bevo has to round 8 to show a significant upwards trend/performance, if not a care taker coach to round 16 while we recruit, then give the last third of the year to the new coach, gives them time to see the list, make some calls on players, and negotiate with other assistant coaches if they want to bring in people with them.
The ones I can think of, Josh Carr, Cox, Gia or Matty Boyd, supported by a good senior assistant like Williams.
 

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Anja_Nees said:
I will say one thing, without getting into the specifics of Bevo. I saw Clarko speak at a function the other day. Not the first time I’ve seen him and whatever you might think of him he is always terrific at these things.

He made one very good point, which is that the good clubs don’t react in the short term. He openly mocked Carlton, Essendon, GC, St Kilda and North for panicking and changing course (coach, president, CEO) every three to four years whenever it seems things aren’t working and bowing to the loud masses or coteries.

He also pointed out that success is never in a straight line and clubs like Collingwood, Geelong and Sydney know it and don’t react short-term.

That certainly doesn’t mean we shouldn’t move on from Bevo if this year doesn’t pan out. I think it does to some explain the desire to stay the course to date. I was seething last night but I frankly expect the club to ignore the short-term backlash.

The noise will be deafening as soon as it becomes clear we won’t make finals (if that happens) but frankly I expect the club to do everything it can to have a good year until then.
Click to expand...

Of course there is something to that but things still need to be looked at it isolation. Obviously the stability trend was in vogue after Richmond's triumph when after 2016 it seemed clear to me and the majority that it was time to move on from Hardwick. This was strengthened after Collingwood made the GF in 2018 when it seemed like Buckley's time should have been up and again in 2021 when Melbourne won when there was a lot of pressure on Goodwin.

There is a similar argument that the change of coaches from Buckley to McRae and Cameron to Kingsley completely rejuvenated teams on a strong downward trend and with new systems and new energy they were able to bounce back to Premiership contention.

The talk is not a new thing either. Before and in the immediate aftermath of McCartney's departure, all the Geelong media heads were preaching to not panic, to stay the course and how much of a mistake it would be/was replacing McCartney as coach. By Round 1, 2015 it was very clear that it wasn't a mistake at all.

I think the main reason of the success of Hardwick is that after 2016 they did a really thorough and honest review about everything in the club and he changed a lot about himself as a person, coaching style and leader. As did other key stakeholders including the captain, Cotchin. Its only round one and maybe there has been similar change here. It did feel concerning how similar this loss felt to 2022 and 2023.
 
puppaC said:
Yeah the fact that we are so bad to watch has completely taken away any joy I used to get from footy. It’s a chore to watch a whole game now, where I used to run to the toilet in the adds so I didn’t miss a second.
Click to expand...
Sitting at the ground I just realised what the * am I doing? Like if I wanted to watch that performance I literally could have taken my pick of just about any game in the last 2 years to watch the replay and see the EXACT same s**t.

I’m pretty done with it, I don’t mind losing and improving and having a crack but I refuse to just sit through the same bullshit, literally the same weaknesses that reared their head in 2017 are still on display. We turn over and over and over the list and same result? Same mistakes, same stale ass boring ******* ball movement. Same lack of defensive effort in the contests watching Melb run out of the front of the stoppage, same being cut to pieces on defensive transition. Literally does not matter whose out there it’s the same thing, and I can’t watch that anymore it’s not worth it.

I’ll watch next week on the tv and decide on whether I go round 3 but if we’re staring down the barrel of an 0-3 start against the *ing weagles again I don’t think I can bring myself to do it. If nothing looks to be fundamentally different by then then I’ll literally throw in the towel already

Not usually a big watcher of other teams because I hate them all but started to watch some other games on the weekend, not with a competitive perspective that I want so and so to lose so we’re higher on the ladder etc, we’re irrelevant, so I watched games with the perspective of just enjoying good footy and it was actually pretty ******* enjoyable. Must be nice to support a team with some *ing balls & hope
 
doggies ftw said:
Sitting at the ground I just realised what the * am I doing? Like if I wanted to watch that performance I literally could have taken my pick of just about any game in the last 2 years to watch the replay and see the EXACT same s**t.

I’m pretty done with it, I don’t mind losing and improving and having a crack but I refuse to just sit through the same bullshit, literally the same weaknesses that reared their head in 2017 are still on display. We turn over and over and over the list and same result? Same mistakes, same stale ass boring ******* ball movement. Same lack of defensive effort in the contests watching Melb run out of the front of the stoppage, same being cut to pieces on defensive transition. Literally does not matter whose out there it’s the same thing, and I can’t watch that anymore it’s not worth it.

I’ll watch next week on the tv and decide on whether I go round 3 but if we’re staring down the barrel of an 0-3 start against the *ing weagles again I don’t think I can bring myself to do it. If nothing looks to be fundamentally different by then then I’ll literally throw in the towel already

Not usually a big watcher of other teams because I hate them all but started to watch some other games on the weekend, not with a competitive perspective that I want so and so to lose so we’re higher on the ladder etc, we’re irrelevant, so I watched games with the perspective of just enjoying good footy and it was actually pretty ******* enjoyable. Must be nice to support a team with some *ing balls & hope
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Very well put.

Aside from the finals in 2021 & a few games through that year, I've not enjoyed footy since 2016.

You just know exactly how it's going to go:

- Slow & wide, intercept, rebound

If we do make it into 50:

- A few entries

- Miss, Miss

- Slingshot down the other end for goal

Repeat.

Just ******* attack we're going to lose anyway. At least make it watchable.
 
Snarls Barkley said:
Of course there is something to that but things still need to be looked at it isolation. Obviously the stability trend was in vogue after Richmond's triumph when after 2016 it seemed clear to me and the majority that it was time to move on from Hardwick. This was strengthened after Collingwood made the GF in 2018 when it seemed like Buckley's time should have been up and again in 2021 when Melbourne won when there was a lot of pressure on Goodwin.

There is a similar argument that the change of coaches from Buckley to McRae and Cameron to Kingsley completely rejuvenated teams on a strong downward trend and with new systems and new energy they were able to bounce back to Premiership contention.

The talk is not a new thing either. Before and in the immediate aftermath of McCartney's departure, all the Geelong media heads were preaching to not panic, to stay the course and how much of a mistake it would be/was replacing McCartney as coach. By Round 1, 2015 it was very clear that it wasn't a mistake at all.

I think the main reason of the success of Hardwick is that after 2016 they did a really thorough and honest review about everything in the club and he changed a lot about himself as a person, coaching style and leader. As did other key stakeholders including the captain, Cotchin. It’s only round one and maybe there has been similar change here. It did feel concerning how similar this loss felt to 2022 and 2023.
Click to expand...
Fair to wait and see, and it’s not like we have a choice anyway.

The Geelong parrots standing up for McCartney in 2014 did preach stability, but he was sacked because most of the playing list was in open rebellion against him. If Bont was on the verge of quitting over a feud with Bevo and we’d won seven games there would be no saving him.
 
I'm not sure where people are getting the "it's more of the same from". I noticed a very deliberate trend to back in our short kicking and be patient with ball movement, as opposed to looking for overlapping run and spread by handball with longer kicking in general, which has been our method of ball movement of last year.

It obviously didn't work for this game, and a lot of the issues such as quality of F50 entry persisted, but I didn't see an identical attempt at game style to last year.
 
threenewpadlocks said:
I'm not sure where people are getting the "it's more of the same from". I noticed a very deliberate trend to back in our short kicking and be patient with ball movement, as opposed to looking for overlapping run and spread by handball with longer kicking in general, which has been our method of ball movement of last year.

It obviously didn't work for this game, and a lot of the issues such as quality of F50 entry persisted, but I didn't see an identical attempt at game style to last year.
Click to expand...

It’s the defensive structure that’s the concern, not so much how we moved it. We allowed Melbourne to just chip it around with ease, their mids were goal side time and time again, and our kicking inside 50 is the same, long and high to a 3 on 3. It was almost mirror image to 2023. The only time I recall us kicking short was from full back and then half back flank back into the corridor which is when we were stuck.
 
I am absolutely gutted at the way that game played out. Sacking Bevo after Round 1 would be completely stupid and it’s obviously not happening. I think we just have to hope that whatever he’s trying eventually comes together. If it doesn’t then he’ll be gone. There’s a bit to play out between then and now.
 
threenewpadlocks said:
I'm not sure where people are getting the "it's more of the same from". I noticed a very deliberate trend to back in our short kicking and be patient with ball movement, as opposed to looking for overlapping run and spread by handball with longer kicking in general, which has been our method of ball movement of last year.

It obviously didn't work for this game, and a lot of the issues such as quality of F50 entry persisted, but I didn't see an identical attempt at game style to last year.
Click to expand...
The whole preseason focus has been on overlapping run and aggressive, direct, ball movement which is absolutely not our method of ball movement last year.

From defence we tended to go wide and slow which then resulted in lots of long kicks down the line. There was lots of backward handballs which they completely clamped down on. We rolled an extra up to the stoppage and either dump kicked or handballed backwards from the stoppage. A fair bit of sideways switching but too slow too actually open the game up, resulting in long down the line. Forward entries were mostly to pack situations off slow ball movement, defence was 4 blokes flying and goals out the back. No rotations in the midfield.

Not having any options to kick to so a bit of slow kick to kick before dumping down the line is not slow, methodical build up. The way Melbourne used the ball was methodical, with actual meaning to use their short targets to open up the field. Kick to kick in the backline is not this.

This was literally identical to last year, there was no shift whatsoever in how we tried to play
 
ossie_21 said:
Unbelievably flat. Next week v Suns will tell me how much I need to care for the rest of the season
Click to expand...
FWIW, every time we lost R1 under Bevo, we also lost R2. Same for wins BTW. So history is against us :$
 
Anja_Nees said:
Fair to wait and see, and it’s not like we have a choice anyway.

The Geelong parrots standing up for McCartney in 2014 did preach stability, but he was sacked because most of the playing list was in open rebellion against him. If Bont was on the verge of quitting over a feud with Bevo and we’d won seven games there would be no saving him.
Click to expand...

Obviously it would be lunacy to sack him now, an interim coach at this point of the season will add nothing. But the discussion should still be whether they made the right decision at the end of last season and whether he deserved a chance to wait and see after two awful seasons. It wasn’t a strong case being put forward in round one.
 
The slow, timid ball use was probably the worst thing about the weekend.

Went short in defence so you would expect a high priority would be placed on extra run and carry from defence to split the zone.

Instead we do the exact opposite.
 
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