Review Dogs defeat Giants 86-71

[Norm De Guerre]

No, I don't think there's any doubt his production is down. The question I'm asking is why.

Look at the career stats I posted above. There's a modest difference between 2022 and 2023 but the difference between 2021 and 2023 is stark:

Disposals DOWN 20% (Kicks DOWN 29%, Handball DOWN 2%)
Marks DOWN 21%
Tackles DOWN 14%
GAs DOWN 40%
i50 UP 4%
Clearances DOWN 32%
Clangers DOWN 35% (a good thing!)
R50 DOWN 25%

I'm not being critical of Macrae. I'm just pointing out his stats AND the eye test say he's not exerting the sort of influence he had 2-3 years ago. I'm hoping there's some transient or tactical reason rather than having to accept that his career is in terminal decline. It shouldn't be happening yet.

Most of the differences between 2021 and 2023 could be put down to him being further away from the engine room (at least for some of the game) so I'm more inclined to follow Next Waiting 's line of reasoning.

I'm also clinging onto the hope that he might be nursing some sort of chronic injury (ribs? intercostal?) from which he could recover after a good off-season.

My gut feeling though is that we're seeing a permanent shift in our midfield dynamic. With Treloar and Libba also close to the end of their careers it highlights the need to
(1) use our high draft picks to recruit some more grunt and speed for the engine room
(2) find a way to tap the unrealised talent we already have in Bailey Smith.

I doubt that he is carrying any sort of injury.

Slow players eventually get exposed. Especially in a game where teams are prone to have devastating periods of midfield dominance. If this wasn't true then we could've expected Macrae to just slide straight into the Dunkley shaped void that was created in our already slow midfield and called it a day. Instead The Bont has upped the ante and assumed that role as well as our No1 attacking mid from the centre square and taken his game into the stratosphere. Unfortunately for Jack, his skillset is not one that is attuned to that of a hardened defensively minded bull (no Im not calling Macrae soft!). Nor is it attuned to the fast break long kicking game of the games elite figures like The Bont, Oliver or Petracca to name a few.

Its at this point that a clever coach recognises a players shortcoming and begins transitioning the player into other roles.

This is what we are seeing Beveridge do in real time. Macrae's stats are in decline and role is in a state of flux right now because it had to be.

As great as he has been, we just couldn't carry another one paced mid in our starting midfield rotation any longer. It was killing us against the top end of the competition and had us struggling against the rest.

Whether coach and player can find the right balance remains to be seem. However, Matt Boyd showed us that you can re-role and become an elite contributor in multiple areas of the ground after being written off as past it. Especially so, if you are like Boyd was and you're a complete psychopath willing to dedicate ever minute of your life towards making that change.

By hook or by crook or trade we absolutely have to be targeting top end midfield talent in the coming drafts. Because what's underneath our starting midfield is about as shallow as my grasp on Quantum Physics. Something we're going to find out all about as soon as this weekend.

 

[Next Waiting]

It will be interesting to see what we will do with Smith. We’ve identified that his defensive work is a massive issue and have pretty much cut him completely out of the centre bounces since rounds 2-3. Even last week, the coaching staff have preferred to use Caleb and I’d be surprised if Smith attended more than 1 or 2 centre bounces over the past 2 weeks.

That's possibly true in recent weeks but he was also possibly being eased back in after his injury.

I tend to think that he'll re-emerge at stoppages and they'll persevere unless it becomes obvious there's no hope of him making it as part of that mix. I don't think we're there yet and I'm inclined to persevere as I think the pay off, should it be successful, would be significant.

 

[dogwatch]

I doubt that he is carrying any sort of injury.

Slow players eventually get exposed. Especially in a game where teams are prone to have devastating periods of midfield dominance. If this wasn't true then we could've expected Macrae to just slide straight into the Dunkley shaped void that was created in our already slow midfield and called it a day. Instead The Bont has upped the ante and assumed that role as well as our No1 attacking mid from the centre square and taken his game into the stratosphere. Unfortunately for Jack, his skillset is not one that is attuned to that of a hardened defensively minded bull (no Im not calling Macrae soft!). Nor is it attuned to the fast break long kicking game of the games elite figures like The Bont, Oliver or Petracca to name a few.

Its at this point that a clever coach recognises a players shortcoming and begins transitioning the player into other roles.

This is what we are seeing Beveridge do in real time. Macrae's stats are in decline and role is in a state of flux right now because it had to be.

As great as he has been, we just couldn't carry another one paced mid in our starting midfield rotation any longer. It was killing us against the top end of the competition and had us struggling against the rest.

Whether coach and player can find the right balance remains to be seem. However, Matt Boyd showed us that you can re-role and become an elite contributor in multiple areas of the ground after being written off as past it. If you are like Boyd was and you're a complete psychopath willing to dedicate ever minute of your life towards making that change.

By hook or by crook or trade we absolutely have to be targeting top end midfield talent in the coming drafts. Because what's underneath our starting midfield is about as shallow as my grasp on Quantum Physics. Something we're going to find out all about as soon as this weekend.

Sounds about right.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to your tutorial on Quantum Physics. An exciting first for BF. What time on the weekend?

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Sounds about right.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to your tutorial on Quantum Physics. An exciting first for BF. What time on the weekend?

I'll start a new thread. I wouldn't want to derail this one.

 

[BEaston]

40 hitouts for English has to be a PB doesn't it?

 

[dogwatch]

40 hitouts for English has to be a PB doesn't it?

Yes.

In 93 games he has had 30 or more hitouts only 7 times. Four of them have been in 2023.

 

[Next Waiting]

Unfortunately for Jack, his skillset is not one that is attuned to that of a hardened defensively minded bull (no Im not calling Macrae soft!).

This is the only part of your summation where I think the jury could be out because I don't think we've seen enough of him in that role to necessarily make the call. He may be able to reinvent himself in that role. He has vision and hands like Libba and is bigger. Libba possibly has him for pace but there's not much in it.

I can't rule out that he could make that transition. It's about all that's left for him in midfield in a competition where speed is at a premium.

EDIT: Actually, on reflection, I'm not really disagreeing here either because Libba isn't necessarily a defensive minded bull either. Capable defensively but a ball winner. I'm suggesting Macrae could be a successor to Libba.

 

[Some Idiot]

Stats are interesting things. They don't capture whether an ordinary pass required an extraordinary effort on the part of the receiver to complete it, just that it was completed.

They also don't record whether a player made a series of ill-judged and ineffective attempts to spoil which left them badly out of position and gifted golden opportunities for opponents to score precious goals in a low scoring match.

No doubt, is he doing these things a lot more than say Tim O'Brien and Bruce? I have issues with all of our key defenders to varying degrees because none of them are good ball users.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

This is the only part of your summation where I think the jury could be out because I don't think we've seen enough of him in that role to necessarily make the call. He may be able to reinvent himself in that role. He has vision and hands like Libba and is bigger. Libba possibly has him for pace but there's not much in it.

I can't rule out that he could make that transition. It's about all that's left for him in midfield in a competition where speed is at a premium.

The problem is that running him in that role brings us back to square one.

3 One paced mids in the starting rotation.

 

[Next Waiting]

The problem is that running him in that role brings us back to square one.

3 One paced mids in the starting rotation.

I edited that post to suggest that he be a successor to Libba. I think you could get away with having one one-paced mid if they're good enough and your ruck can go at 50/50 at stoppages, but not 2 one paced mids. Hard to describe Bont's pace. Not electric but not slow and definitely powerful so I'll stand him out from the one-paced brigade.

 

[Struggle]

Why would anyone even consider moving Macrae out when we don't have a single young developing mid in the VFL.
What for, a mid draft pick who might not even hit 10 games
jfc

 

[Doggy]

Why would anyone even consider moving Macrae out when we don't have a single young developing mid in the VFL.
What for, a mid draft pick who might not even hit 10 games
jfc

People have gone mental

 

[Norm De Guerre]

I edited that post to suggest that he be a successor to Libba. I think you could get away with having one one-paced mid if they're good enough and your ruck can go at 50/50 at stoppages, but not 2 one paced mids. Hard to describe Bont's pace. Not electric but not slow and definitely powerful so I'll stand him out from the one-paced brigade.

Id call the Bont one paced in the same way I would Scott Pendlebury. Theses guys have exceptional agility and spacial awareness for their size.

Where The Bont has it over Pendlebury is how he uses his mass to his advantage.

 

[Next Waiting]

Why would anyone even consider moving Macrae out when we don't have a single young developing mid in the VFL.
What for, a mid draft pick who might not even hit 10 games
jfc

I'm not sure that anyone is really suggesting we move him on. What's perhaps possible is that he moves himself on if he's not enthusiastic about the roles he's likely to play moving forward....which will be/are very different to that he's accustomed to playing.

I have one possible solution to keeping him with us and in the 22, but it's not in the short term. I don't see much else for him.

 

[Next Waiting]

Id call the Bont one paced in the same way I would Scott Pendlebury. Theses guys have exceptional agility and spacial awareness for their size.

Where The Bont has it over Pendlebury is how he uses his mass to his advantage.

So currently we have Bont, Treloar and Libba as the preferred start. A reasonable mix. You'd like Libba to be yard quicker and same with Macrae. Hypothetically, Bont, Treloar and Macrae who's committed to Libba's role. Not a huge difference in my view. Is it enough, quick enough. English has a lot of bearing on how all this plays out.

 

[Next Waiting]

People have gone mental

I think you have to take the emotion out of it and see it for what it is. Time waits for no-one and the time of the slow midfielder, surrounded by other (relatively) slow midfielders has passed. Something has to give. A change in role or club.

 

[dergert]

There's no coincidence that English has gone berserk in the same year that Brendon Lade

Brendon Lade

Age

47

Ht

199cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.4

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

4.0

3star

HO

15.1

5star

No current season stats available

D

11.2

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

4.4

4star

HO

9.6

5star

has joined as the midfield coach.

 

[Some Idiot]

Id call the Bont one paced in the same way I would Scott Pendlebury. Theses guys have exceptional agility and spacial awareness for their size.

Where The Bont has it over Pendlebury is how he uses his mass to his advantage.

Bont definitely isn't a regular in the fastest players on the GPS, but as an example he bobbed up in the Richmond game with a top speed of 31.6kph which was 5th fastest in that game.

 

[doggies ftw]

I wouldn’t think for example Oliver is faster than Bont, he may not have a lightning quick first few steps but he’s moving bloody well - he routinely gaps opposition running it fwd of centre. Smarts & timing will always beat out raw pace and Bont has it in spades

 

[Next Waiting]

Some discussion around the votes after this one so I'm going to have a crack at coaches votes.

Bont 10
Green (GW) 8
English 5
Naughts 4
Ash (GW) 2
Arty Jones 1

 

[Next Waiting]

I wouldn’t think for example Oliver is faster than Bont, he may not have a lightning quick first few steps but he’s moving bloody well - he routinely gaps opposition running it fwd of centre. Smarts & timing will always beat out raw pace and Bont has it in spades

I would think that Oliver is definitely faster than Bont.

 

[Bald]

I would think that Oliver is definitely faster than Bont.

He absolutely is, he chased down Bailey Smith with relative ease in round one.

 

[Next Waiting]

He absolutely is, he chased down Bailey Smith with relative ease in round one.

He, Oliver, has a head that only a mother could love, but the boy can play.

 

[ossie_21]

I would think that Oliver is definitely faster than Bont.

He’s a ginger and would have had to run away from school bullies, so yeah he’d be faster than Bont

 

[dogwatch]

Some discussion around the votes after this one so I'm going to have a crack at coaches votes.

Bont 10
Green (GW) 8
English 5
Naughts 4
Ash (GW) 2
Arty Jones 1

More likely 9 each to Green and Bont.