Brisbane is one thing but I wouldn't call the other test cities humid
Drop in pitches: are they counter productive???
- Thread starter philreich
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Couple of points.
1. Humidity has no effect on swing bowling. If anything, higher humidity has a correlation with less swing.
2. Cloud cover has no effect on swing. Why would it? There is no reason for it. Sunlight doesn't make or stop the ball swinging.
The major factor in swing bowling (other than the bowlers skill) is the ball. A perfectly spherical ball will not swing - unless you put some side-spin on it. A cricket ball has a bloody great seam running down it, and it gets worn down unevenly during an innings - which can be manipulated into 'rough side/smooth side' swing - ie reverse. The Duke ball has a much bigger seam than the Kookaburra. 2-piece balls will also 'deform' more than a 4-piece ball, and so swing more (being less spherical).
The second major factor is wind conditions - not just the prevailing wind, but also micro-breezes that operate close to the ground, or at waist level. An obvious example is that a cricket pitch tends to stand out on a field because it is an area of nearly bare earth surrounded by grass - it generates (very) small thermals. Obviously, these are a very minor factor in swinging the ball.
Johnson ans Harris swung the ball fine out here when we beat the poms in 2014.
Drugs Are Bad Mackay?
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Humidity and cloud cover do have an indirect effect on swing bowling IMO.
Humid areas tend to have lush green outfields and well grassed pitch squares. In these conditions the ball stays in better condition and therefore moves around longer.
Dry areas have harder, more abrasive outfields and rougher pitch squares. The ball ages quickly, seam gets worn down, stops swinging early.
Pitches always have more moisture in them at the start of a day and the start of the game. Moisture in the pitch means that the ball stays new longer. In overcast conditions there is slower evaporation of this moisture. The conditions stay pretty much the same, the pitch doesn't dry out.
In clear, sunny conditions the moisture disappears quickly. The ball gets scuffed up more on a dry surface, the seam gets worn down.
Humid areas tend to have lush green outfields and well grassed pitch squares. In these conditions the ball stays in better condition and therefore moves around longer.
Dry areas have harder, more abrasive outfields and rougher pitch squares. The ball ages quickly, seam gets worn down, stops swinging early.
Pitches always have more moisture in them at the start of a day and the start of the game. Moisture in the pitch means that the ball stays new longer. In overcast conditions there is slower evaporation of this moisture. The conditions stay pretty much the same, the pitch doesn't dry out.
In clear, sunny conditions the moisture disappears quickly. The ball gets scuffed up more on a dry surface, the seam gets worn down.
Certainly, how green the pitch, outfield is will have some effect on how long the ball swings for. But it has no effect on how the ball swings in the air.
The key for swinging the ball is to have an uneven ball - hence the red/yellow tennis ball they sell for backyard cricket. Or just put electrical tape on one half of a tennis ball and go mad.
When the cricket ball is new, it is very shiny and smooth, so the position of the seam dictates how the ball will swing. This is more consistent than later on as the ball roughens up, because now you are relying on the 'rough side/smooth side' method of swing, which is less predictable and less dramatic.
How fast you bowl has a big effect on swing - non-test bowlers (ie you and me) find it almost impossible to produce genuine reverse swing as this required the ball to bowled at at least 135+ ks.
The key for swinging the ball is to have an uneven ball - hence the red/yellow tennis ball they sell for backyard cricket. Or just put electrical tape on one half of a tennis ball and go mad.
When the cricket ball is new, it is very shiny and smooth, so the position of the seam dictates how the ball will swing. This is more consistent than later on as the ball roughens up, because now you are relying on the 'rough side/smooth side' method of swing, which is less predictable and less dramatic.
How fast you bowl has a big effect on swing - non-test bowlers (ie you and me) find it almost impossible to produce genuine reverse swing as this required the ball to bowled at at least 135+ ks.
The Duke balls don't last long enough on our harder wickets anyway.
In any case it's clearly not the ball. Englands been using Dukes for pretty much forever.
In any case it's clearly not the ball. Englands been using Dukes for pretty much forever.
Ciderhound
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Will kill test cricket in this country which is probably what cricket australia wants.
Self fulfilling prophecy.
Self fulfilling prophecy.
Curators of drop ins just have to get a bit smarter. U can't start a test with one as dry as this although I understand that the thought behind it this year was hoping it would deteriorate towards the end. Drop ins just don't fall apart due to being packed in trays
A bowlers action, hand position, atmospheric conditions all play a part. It doesn't matter what type of nut they use it simply will not swing as much in Australia as it does in England.
The condition of the pitch will aid seam movement obviously
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Marcus DuQuesne
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For a purist drop in pitches are a blight on the game. Once upon a time the Gabba could be a green top and a real handful for batsman. WACA very bouncy white colored wicket ball carry amazing. Adelaide a road that produced a lot of runs. MCG was a low and slow pitch with grubbers towards end. SCG was actually a green top at one stage but then became a spinners paradise and so on and so forth . The fact is every ground had its own character and different skills were required to play at different venues over the course of the summer. However in the 21st Century we live in a contrived world where the Mighty dollar rules and Tests in Australia need to go closer to the 5 day limit. More Dollars all round...Advertising ,gate receipts, catering and payment of salaries to all the brilliant commentators that are employed. Do I personally like drop in pitches...not sure. All I know is that as a sportsman the opportunity to make some good money playing the various forms of the game are something I would like to have been part of. We will never go back to past so it is what it is. The answer to the Counter Productive comment is...Counter Productive to What....Pls Explain?
Only 2 of the venues used are drop ins at this point. The GABBA and SCG have categorically ruled out going that way it seems as tho Adelaide is now destined to forever be a day night test there providing a very different set of conditions
Anyone who thinks humid conditions don’t help swing the ball or live grass on the pitch doesn’t help is wrong.
I played a pretty high level of cricket for a long time in both Australia and the UK as a fast bowler and there are certain conditions that suit the ball swinging.
There is also some balls as mentioned above that just don’t swing and that is just unlucky. I always tried to pick the darker red kookaburras but sometimes you just got unlucky with your choice.
There is three ways the ball swings, out of the hand or what we call wind assisted swing. Very easy for the batsman to play against.
The best is seam upright and late swing which you can only do if you have some pace and also if the conditions suit, live grass on the pitch is needed for this to happen consistently.
Reverse swing is the other and that just needs work on one side of the ball, we did it a bit different than they are allowed to now though.
Bottom line is it makes no difference what ball is used, the pitches have no live grass on them and because of this the ball will struggle to swing in my opinion and from what I have seen and actually been a part of.
I played a pretty high level of cricket for a long time in both Australia and the UK as a fast bowler and there are certain conditions that suit the ball swinging.
There is also some balls as mentioned above that just don’t swing and that is just unlucky. I always tried to pick the darker red kookaburras but sometimes you just got unlucky with your choice.
There is three ways the ball swings, out of the hand or what we call wind assisted swing. Very easy for the batsman to play against.
The best is seam upright and late swing which you can only do if you have some pace and also if the conditions suit, live grass on the pitch is needed for this to happen consistently.
Reverse swing is the other and that just needs work on one side of the ball, we did it a bit different than they are allowed to now though.
Bottom line is it makes no difference what ball is used, the pitches have no live grass on them and because of this the ball will struggle to swing in my opinion and from what I have seen and actually been a part of.
I can swing a 25 year old cricket ball that someone pulls out, a tennis ball with no tape no matter the pitch...wicket, hard wicket, backward or whatever...I can do it every time but only one way...why....because of my bowling action. The other factors assist but I can do it every time
Ok, it’s called drift not swing. Maybe you should be the Australian bowling coach?
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Best pitches are the ones that offers more to the bowler than the batsmen. Even on the first morning of a test match
Are drop in pitches the issue or are the demands for cricket matches to go 5 days the issue?
A few things, no doubt we doctor our wickets. England come out from a country where swing and seam rule, the ball has never swung or seamed less than it has this series. No doubt if we were playing India or Pakistan there would be some swing and some seam. A bit more grass and a bit more moisture, but the wickets look hard, bare and dry. No swing, seam, cut, just a bit of bounce and a little turn which is no use to them and reasonable useful to us.
I think the pitches this series have been alright, wickets definitely groomed to our advantage and England's disadvantage. We've seen results apart from Melbourne which wasn't totally the wickets fault. More the point Warner and Smith having great matches, rain delays and England being a poor bowling side with poor field sets.
Personally I would like to see wickets that offer bowler and batsmen something. I like to see wickets that are historically true.
A bit of grass and hardness in the wicket to offer some swing, seam and bounce without it being over the top, good batting should still get hundreds and some spin increasing later in the match. I like how perth was hard and had cracks but it lacked grass. Adelaide, it was a good batting strip that spun a little and bounced a bit, Brisbane should have moisture and grass for swing, seam, bounce and some spin and the SCG should be a true aussie wicket that turns a bit more. No one knows what the MCG wicket is anymore. It used to be known as a bit of a low bouncer and it was a bit but not to an extent where it was an issue.
T20 should be flat as a tack and all about the batting. ODI should be flat with a little bit of swing early. I used to love how there was reverse swing in ODI cricket at the end but that is gone with the two new balls. Test cricket should be an even competition between bat and ball where all skills are on display.
A few things, no doubt we doctor our wickets. England come out from a country where swing and seam rule, the ball has never swung or seamed less than it has this series. No doubt if we were playing India or Pakistan there would be some swing and some seam. A bit more grass and a bit more moisture, but the wickets look hard, bare and dry. No swing, seam, cut, just a bit of bounce and a little turn which is no use to them and reasonable useful to us.
I think the pitches this series have been alright, wickets definitely groomed to our advantage and England's disadvantage. We've seen results apart from Melbourne which wasn't totally the wickets fault. More the point Warner and Smith having great matches, rain delays and England being a poor bowling side with poor field sets.
Personally I would like to see wickets that offer bowler and batsmen something. I like to see wickets that are historically true.
A bit of grass and hardness in the wicket to offer some swing, seam and bounce without it being over the top, good batting should still get hundreds and some spin increasing later in the match. I like how perth was hard and had cracks but it lacked grass. Adelaide, it was a good batting strip that spun a little and bounced a bit, Brisbane should have moisture and grass for swing, seam, bounce and some spin and the SCG should be a true aussie wicket that turns a bit more. No one knows what the MCG wicket is anymore. It used to be known as a bit of a low bouncer and it was a bit but not to an extent where it was an issue.
T20 should be flat as a tack and all about the batting. ODI should be flat with a little bit of swing early. I used to love how there was reverse swing in ODI cricket at the end but that is gone with the two new balls. Test cricket should be an even competition between bat and ball where all skills are on display.
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Completely disagree. T20 shouldn’t be run fests. Limited overs games with low totals are much more fun and engaging to watch than high scoring farces that end with one side losing by 50 odd runs.
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What?
They haven't had decks this friendly since 2011. Brisbane was the most placid it's been since then, without rising bounce or pace, Adelaide was as English as Australian conditions get, and Perth and Melbourne were decks which favored the batsman; Perth, by having the bounce be as regular as concrete until the last day, and Melbourne, by taking all the pace off the ball when it hit the deck. There's a reason Broad got runs in Melbourne, and it isn't that he's learnt to hook; he had time to s**t himself and recover before the ball got to him.
As for whether or not Australia doctor our wickets, if we do we don't do it to win as much as we do it to ensure tests go five days. If you've got a fast bowling attack like ours, why isn't every deck in Australia quick and bouncy? It's about TV money, and selling a product to networks rather than to ensure results, but then, who's surprised by this?
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