No Opposition Supporters General AFL and other clubs discussion thread. **Opposition fans not welcome** Part 4

Gralin

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Look forward to watching Footy on Fox Business channels.

Drops mic.
Wouldn't bother, but lol if you think it is anything other than a business to those that run it or televise it.


Still Gil would be happy we are whinging and arguing about this instead of the quality of the product they are selling us
 

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hebog

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Great post but the highlighted line is the big issue, too much nothingness in todays football.
Which is why, we have amplified crowd noise through the loudspeakers, we are deafened by some horrible noise when a goal is scored, there is a sort of drum roll before the start of second half, and noisy half time entertainment. No wonder clubs are beginning to provide quiet rooms.
 

cryptor

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The argument of "I've always been able to do it, so I should be allowed to continue doing it," is a very poor one. Especially when it's to justify verbally abusing someone just trying to do their job. "It's a sport" is also poor and completely irrelevant.
 

Carl Spackler

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The argument of "I've always been able to do it, so I should be allowed to continue doing it," is a very poor one. Especially when it's to justify verbally abusing someone just trying to do their job. "It's a sport" is also poor and completely irrelevant.
For 99% of the footy's history, verbalising the umpires was an integral part of the game. It added character and flavour the event. It wasn't bullying, it was the spirit of the event. Now it's workplace bullying. Why? Because they genuinely suck.

The AFL has mismanaged and over-lawyered this competition so that umpires are more often than not detracting from the play, not enhancing the play. Inserting themselves into the contest at the most inopportune times for the most inconsistent reasons. The umpires now cop the abuse that should rightly be directed at the AFL itself, but they sit in their Marvel Stadium suites bemoaning the lowly state of the AFL supporter.

It was never personal until ever single thing that the AFL did made the game worse. And then when fans voiced displeasure the AFL complained about they way they voiced it. This isn't an issue of good behaviour. It's the issue of an arrogant and non-responsive organisation who in the face of fierce criticism blame the consumer for rejecting the product.
 

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I'm of the opinion that if you won't go to the footy if you can't swear your head off then I'm happy to not see you at the footy.

Bad call by the umps, boo it, someone cleans up your player, boo him. Why do you need to do anything else?
Nice opinion you have there, except the AFL is already cracking down on booing and views it as anti-social behavior.

Which doesn't really leave fans with much scope to express themselves does it? Of course that's precisely what the AFL wants - fans sitting still in their seats like robots, only raising their voices to cheer goals or politely golfclap impressive passages of play. Maybe someone like you is okay with that, but I'm not.
 

B&GBlood

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No idea why you are so worried about antisocial behaviour being cracked down on

Aside from that how do the Tigers cheersquad know they are undercover spotters, could just be fans sick of the Tigers cheer squad going feral

It's about time we moved on from the footy being an excuse to hurl abuse at people at the top of your lungs
Why?

Assuming the language is not blue, the odd "you need glasses you blind/white/green.... maggot boooooo" has enormous theraputic value and really means no one any harm.
 

cryptor

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For 99% of the footy's history, verbalising the umpires was an integral part of the game. It added character and flavour the event. It wasn't bullying, it was the spirit of the event. Now it's workplace bullying. Why? Because they genuinely suck.

The AFL has mismanaged and over-lawyered this competition so that umpires are more often than not detracting from the play, not enhancing the play. Inserting themselves into the contest at the most inopportune times for the most inconsistent reasons. The umpires now cop the abuse that should rightly be directed at the AFL itself, but they sit in their Marvel Stadium suites bemoaning the lowly state of the AFL supporter.

It was never personal until ever single thing that the AFL did made the game worse. And then when fans voiced displeasure the AFL complained about they way they voiced it. This isn't an issue of good behaviour. It's the issue of an arrogant and non-responsive organisation who in the face of fierce criticism blame the consumer for rejecting the product.
I think you need to look up the definition of "integral" as it's really not.

If the issue really is with what the AFL has done to the rules of the game then why take that out on individual umpires who are only employed to enforce those rules, not write them? Abusing them will only get you kicked out of a stadium you've already spent your money on entering. If it really is the AFL you want to send the message to then you'd be best served by not turning up at all. Stop paying for the product you're so unhappy with. Make a direct donation to the Hawks (not via your membership fee) if you want to continue supporting the club while you're sending your message to the AFL.
 

Gralin

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Nice opinion you have there, except the AFL is already cracking down on booing and views it as anti-social behavior.

Which doesn't really leave fans with much scope to express themselves does it? Of course that's precisely what the AFL wants - fans sitting still in their seats like robots, only raising their voices to cheer goals or politely golfclap impressive passages of play. Maybe someone like you is okay with that, but I'm not.
Again, I think what we are seeing here is a reaction to the final quarter documentary that has just come out and the coverage of violence at the footy we had over the first half of the season.

The booing of Ablett got headquarters nervous that they would have another example of fan behaviour out there as the same time the doco was stirring up old feelings and raising anew questions about the AFL's responsibility when it comes to crowd behaviour

I also think there is suddenly a lot of coverage of this at a time when the game on field is traditionally questioned, we always have complaints in winter about increased congestion, decreased scoring, less games with bye weeks etc.

Pretty good timing to shift the focus and sell a lot of papers and outrage about whether you can boo instead of whether we should bother watching

Why?

Assuming the language is not blue, the odd "you need glasses you blind/white/green.... maggot boooooo" has enormous theraputic value and really means no one any harm.
I disagree on the means no harm part. You'd think by now people would have worked out that words can do immense harm
 

Rioli magic

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Indeed. The reality is that people are emotionally invested in football (and sports), it’s their passion, their hobby, something they are willing to pay good money to be a part of. There is obviously a line somewhere of what is acceptable behavior and what is not (essentially what this discussion is about), but it’s a delicate balance (passion and atmosphere is what you want at the football...), but to think you can abruptly police out emotional responses from supporters is foolish.

Aussie rules is an exciting, fast, hard and free flowing game for everyone to participate and enjoy, it’s not golf. Ideally umpires should not have to put up with any abuse, just like everyone else, but I’m not sure suddenly ejecting people for calling one a flog is the right approach... there are better ways to go about it.

Perhaps a good start would be engaging and listening to the fans a bit more, rather than just imposing the TV networks agenda onto them....
 

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Wouldn't bother, but lol if you think it is anything other than a business to those that run it or televise it.


Still Gil would be happy we are whinging and arguing about this instead of the quality of the product they are selling us
Nice opinion you have there, except the AFL is already cracking down on booing and views it as anti-social behavior.

Which doesn't really leave fans with much scope to express themselves does it? Of course that's precisely what the AFL wants - fans sitting still in their seats like robots, only raising their voices to cheer goals or politely golfclap impressive passages of play. Maybe someone like you is okay with that, but I'm not.
The odd robot will blow a gasket out of frustration and start punching the other robots within their vicinity. Does this sound familiar?
 

B&GBlood

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Again, I think what we are seeing here is a reaction to the final quarter documentary that has just come out and the coverage of violence at the footy we had over the first half of the season.

The booing of Ablett got headquarters nervous that they would have another example of fan behaviour out there as the same time the doco was stirring up old feelings and raising anew questions about the AFL's responsibility when it comes to crowd behaviour

I also think there is suddenly a lot of coverage of this at a time when the game on field is traditionally questioned, we always have complaints in winter about increased congestion, decreased scoring, less games with bye weeks etc.

Pretty good timing to shift the focus and sell a lot of papers and outrage about whether you can boo instead of whether we should bother watching


I disagree on the means no harm part. You'd think by now people would have worked out that words can do immense harm
And people can chose to take offense or accept the words are neither relevant to them or particulary insulting. A maggot yelled indisciminatly from across the fence is not going to be a suprise to any umpire. If it was in his face and personal space, that is another thing. What really make words harmful is not what is said so much as who they are said by. If there is a relationship then they are much more likely to insult, from a complete stranger in the circumstances surrounding a supporter from the crowd and an umpire not likely to make any impact.
 

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And people can chose to take offense or accept the words are neither relevant to them or particulary insulting. A maggot yelled indisciminatly from across the fence is not going to be a suprise to any umpire. If it was in his face and personal space, that is another thing. What really make words harmful is not what is said so much as who they are said by. If there is a relationship then they are much more likely to insult, from a complete stranger in the circumstances surrounding a supporter from the crowd and an umpire not likely to make any impact.
Pretty sure it was the umpire who pointed the culprit out to the security people escorting him up the race in this instance - so while it may not have been a surprise to the umpire he obviously took offence.
 

thejockey

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I hardly get to games these days . Was out our game against Geelong this year and really couldn’t believe how bad the abuse towards the umps , players and other supporters was .
Both sides too. Maybe I was just in a bad part of the ground.
I don’t think I’m easily shocked . I’m pretty competitive. Have had some pretty ordinary stuff directed at me on a cricket field and a few seasons supporting the local Soccer side in the Uk well , refs there are lucky to get out of the 5-7k capacity ground alive .

But this was really bad , non stop abuse. My 3 year old is bugging me to go to a game . No way I can take the chance and have her being in that type of environment.

Some people might see it as a whinge but as a society aren’t we just better then having to abuse people ?
Maybe I’m just getting old !
 

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Pretty sure it was the umpire who pointed the culprit out to the security people escorting him up the race in this instance - so while it may not have been a surprise to the umpire he obviously took offence.
Was not during play that is what got him in trouble, bald flog hardly peals the skin off the flesh as far as vitriol goes.
 

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I hardly get to games these days . Was out our game against Geelong this year and really couldn’t believe how bad the abuse towards the umps , players and other supporters was .
Both sides too. Maybe I was just in a bad part of the ground.
I don’t think I’m easily shocked . I’m pretty competitive. Have had some pretty ordinary stuff directed at me on a cricket field and a few seasons supporting the local Soccer side in the Uk well , refs there are lucky to get out of the 5-7k capacity ground alive .

But this was really bad , non stop abuse. My 3 year old is bugging me to go to a game . No way I can take the chance and have her being in that type of environment.

Some people might see it as a whinge but as a society aren’t we just better then having to abuse people ?
Maybe I’m just getting old !
Yep, you're like me ... getting too old for this crap. I posted elsewhere about this today, but I'm finding the contemporary supporter to be bordering on the obnoxious. Whilst we haven't plunged the depths of the American fans, we're on our way. In the NBA finals today, Kevin Durant went down with a serious Achilles injury, and the opposition supporters were cheering. Even the Toronto players were disgusted with their own crowd. When we start cheering injuries to players, that's where I draw the line. It's sub-human.
 

Gralin

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And people can chose to take offense or accept the words are neither relevant to them or particulary insulting. A maggot yelled indisciminatly from across the fence is not going to be a suprise to any umpire. If it was in his face and personal space, that is another thing. What really make words harmful is not what is said so much as who they are said by. If there is a relationship then they are much more likely to insult, from a complete stranger in the circumstances surrounding a supporter from the crowd and an umpire not likely to make any impact.
So who decides what insults are acceptable to use?

I'm sure that line about taking offence was trotted out regularly back in the day when people decided to racially vilify indigenous players, I'm sure some still try it on today.

I've seen the comment on big footy recently that ape isn't an offensive word as far as insults go. Still after everything.

You don't think calling someone a maggot is bad but yeah it must be fun hearing hundreds of people scream it at you for trying to do your job, week after week.

And yeah that must be fun if you're an ump in the crowd watching as well

Words don't hurt, it's your choice to take offence, I didn't mean it, just a bit of fun. ********
 

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Yep, you're like me ... getting too old for this crap. I posted elsewhere about this today, but I'm finding the contemporary supporter to be bordering on the obnoxious. Whilst we haven't plunged the depths of the American fans, we're on our way. In the NBA finals today, Kevin Durant went down with a serious Achilles injury, and the opposition supporters were cheering. Even the Toronto players were disgusted with their own crowd. When we start cheering injuries to players, that's where I draw the line. It's sub-human.
You actually think that fan behaviour is getting worse? Bay 13 anyone?

The puritanical tendencies of the AFL and society has certainly increased, but behaviour is not worse. It's significantly more tame.
 

Carl Spackler

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So who decides what insults are acceptable to use?

I'm sure that line about taking offence was trotted out regularly back in the day when people decided to racially vilify indigenous players, I'm sure some still try it on today.

I've seen the comment on big footy recently that ape isn't an offensive word as far as insults go. Still after everything.

You don't think calling someone a maggot is bad but yeah it must be fun hearing hundreds of people scream it at you for trying to do your job, week after week.

And yeah that must be fun if you're an ump in the crowd watching as well

Words don't hurt, it's your choice to take offence, I didn't mean it, just a bit of fun. ********
Ah, so no calling an umpire a bald-headed maggot is no different than the abuse that Winmar copped, is it? Why don't you ask Winmar's opinion on that view.

Soon this will be only acceptable garb for the footy:

1560240474230.png
 

JoeHawk

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Kicking people out of the game for yelling that the umpire is a 'bald headed flog'? Or a 'green maggot' for a three-game ban? That's anti-social behaviour?

I'm worried because the AFL is doing this while umpiring becomes every more complex and inconsistent. Because penalties and MRC decisions are seemingly drowning and bias. Because play is increasingly uncertain, rules increasingly arbitrary, the product of football decreasing in quality weekly before our eyes. Because country leagues are being starved of funds and support. Because a mid-season draft is conducted to the detriment of the lower leagues that keep the game afloat.

All that is going on and the AFL feels the need to police the Richmond cheer squad. It appears depressingly clear that the on-field product has become the league's secondary mission. It's readily apparent that the AFL would be most pleased if the fans sat as Melbourne supporters on the second and third levels of the MCC and golf clapped their way through a **** contest. The AFL act with an arrogance that shows they believe they have an exclusive right and license to fanbase support, regardless of product quality.

I'm worried because the AFL has lost its way and I really like footy. I don't want to see them destroy it for a lack of focus on their single mission: be worthy custodians of the great tradition of Australian Rules Football.
Could it simply be to stop the increased level of violence that has been occurring recently? Is that how violence starts? Perhaps. Makes sense. If so, why not just come out and tell us, instead of trying to impose some kind of covert operation.
 

Gralin

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Ah, so no calling an umpire a bald-headed maggot is no different than the abuse that Winmar copped, is it? Why don't you ask Winmar's opinion on that view.

Soon this will be only acceptable garb for the footy:

View attachment 690630
Sun smart

No I don't think yelling maggot is the same as what Winmar copped, I'm saying the blokes doing it used the same arguments.

It's just words, they don't hurt, I'm not offended so they shouldn't be. It's part of footy, it's my right!
 

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I'm absolutely 100% with Gralin on this issue.

The AFL is a far from perfect body but it's endeavoring to do exactly what many other sporting organisations are doing around the world - and that is to discourage the outrageous vicious abuse that's being hurled around at their sporting events (including AFL games) - especially when they're also trying to promote family attendances at our games.
It's not just an issue of people shouting out the f word or c word or the like.
Somewhere there's a line to be drawn between personal and offensive and sustained abuse (whether or not it involves outright swearing) and general supporting and shouting with less offensive abuse that's gone on for decades. What I assume the AFL is doing right now is finding out where that line is and that will inevitably be a trial and error process.

The laws regarding all forms of abuse and harassment, in Australia and elsewhere, have been sensibly changing and evolving over the past decade and more, particularly with regard to homophobic and racial abuse, in all public areas and workplaces, even in Australian Parliament, and there's absolutely no reason why this shift in public policy and the various laws generally should not be applied to AFL and country footy and other similar sporting events.

Who wants to sit in front of the idiot who screams out abuse all day at umpires and opposition supporters? Whether he's actually swearing is no longer the determinant and for those who think that's still OK because footy crowds have been doing it for generations, well, you badly need a brain reset because we're living in 2019, not 1969.

And for those who think the AFL is trying to cower us into polite hand clapping, that's utter nonsense and a ridiculous distortion of the serious issues.
 

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The argument of "I've always been able to do it, so I should be allowed to continue doing it," is a very poor one. Especially when it's to justify verbally abusing someone just trying to do their job. "It's a sport" is also poor and completely irrelevant.
It is only loosely a work place, one which all the participants have historically been aware of what comes with the territory.
The argument of "How would you like it in my workplace" just doesn't stand as it has never been a part of 90% of work places.
Except for when I was moonlighting as a stripper for hens nights and party buses, then some of the drunken comments I got would have made a grandmother blush.
 
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