Oppo Camp General AFL and other clubs discussion thread. **Opposition fans not welcome** Part 5

[Ned Ryerson]

A sudden death is difficult enough to deal with so I can’t imagine how much harder it would be with all this gossip about whether it was an accident or suicide.

We don’t have the right to know and I don’t see why it seems so important for people to try and understand the why’s of what’s happened - all we need to do is acknowledge that a special person has passed away - that’s all we have to do

Firstly - his family won’t be taking anything external in for days. They’ll be in a state of shock and likely not trawling internet forums.

If a public figure fighting cancer had passed away people would likely conclude it was the cancer before waiting for the medical reports. People wouldn’t lecture you for saying ‘oh my god, please think of the family before saying cancer is terrible!’. Treating suicide differently can, inadvertently, add to the stigma surrounding it.

Numerous experts want a change in the way death by suicide is talked about and discussed. The mere fact that it is being speculated on via social media channels means that the language we use becomes more important for others who are at risk. The way the press should report on it is also of importance according to articles I’ve read - so by stating if people need help the press are actually being responsible because the circumstances surrounding his passing might be a trigger for those on the edge. It doesn’t mean the press is being tawdry by putting suicide and mental health resources at the end of articles.

If this is a death by suicide it doesn’t make it any less tragic, it doesn’t make his passing taboo. As someone who has to live with mental illness, not only my own but in others close to me - I implore people to do a bit of reading and understand why people want the way we discuss suicide to change to help others.

On that note - if anyone out there reading this is struggling, remember there’s always someone who will listen and get in contact with Lifeline, beyond blue or other resources if you feel you need assistance.

 

[flinchfree]

Just a real goofy looking footballer who found a way, a way you would never prescribe - yet he willed himself to considerable success, but far more than that from a million miles away you could tell he was a super super human being.
Loved people and unafraid to show it.
God speed Danny.

 

[MinerBoy]

Yeah don’t watch that s**t anymore so I assume Gerard will allow Chris the full hour to explain how they got the weather wrong

Chris Scott doesn’t get the weather wrong. The weather gets Chris Scott wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Tassie Cryptik]

Having been in Frawleys daughter's shoes, it can, should, and needs to be called for what it is.
Suicide
RIP Danny

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Having been in Frawleys daughter's shoes, it can, should, and needs to be called for what it is.
Suicide
RIP Danny

One of those poignant posts that it feels weird to ‘like’ but needs acknowledging. Thanks for sharing and all the best.

 

[Tassie Cryptik]

Thank you.
RIP Mum

 

[Bugs1977]

Firstly - his family won’t be taking anything external in for days. They’ll be in a state of shock and likely not trawling internet forums.

If a public figure fighting cancer had passed away people would likely conclude it was the cancer before waiting for the medical reports. People wouldn’t lecture you for saying ‘oh my god, please think of the family before saying cancer is terrible!’. Treating suicide differently can, inadvertently, add to the stigma surrounding it.

Numerous experts want a change in the way death by suicide is talked about and discussed. The mere fact that it is being speculated on via social media channels means that the language we use becomes more important for others who are at risk. The way the press should report on it is also of importance according to articles I’ve read - so by stating if people need help the press are actually being responsible because the circumstances surrounding his passing might be a trigger for those on the edge. It doesn’t mean the press is being tawdry by putting suicide and mental health resources at the end of articles.

If this is a death by suicide it doesn’t make it any less tragic, it doesn’t make his passing taboo. As someone who has to live with mental illness, not only my own but in others close to me - I implore people to do a bit of reading and understand why people want the way we discuss suicide to change to help others.

On that note - if anyone out there reading this is struggling, remember there’s always someone who will listen and get in contact with Lifeline, beyond blue or other resources if you feel you need assistance.

Hey Ned Ryerson I just wanted to say that I agree and support all your posts last night regarding the tragic passing of DF. It takes a lot of courage to acknowledge and talk about these things as tough as they are. Yes all the facts have not been released and a lot will have different opinions on when is / isn't the right time to talk about it but the black beast as they call it can affect anyone and openly talking about it sets a standard which I'm sure that DF would've supported too. I know it shouldn't take things like this to happen but it really does put things into perspective about us worrying about silly things like which free agent / A grader we are chasing.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Hey Ned Ryerson I just wanted to say that I agree and support all your posts last night regarding the tragic passing of DF. It takes a lot of courage to acknowledge and talk about these things as tough as they are. Yes all the facts have not been released and a lot will have different opinions on when is / isn't the right time to talk about it but the black beast as they call it can affect anyone and openly talking about it sets a standard which I'm sure that DF would've supported too. I know it shouldn't take things like this to happen but it really does put things into perspective about us worrying about silly things like which free agent / A grader we are chasing.

And I know it's a very tough, very heavy subject - but as a society we need to get better with talking about it. As someone who lost a parent to breast cancer I have zero qualms with the exposure, awareness and money that is raised for it. As it's a hormonal cancer it will likely unlock a cure to prostate cancer also so I don't get drawn on the disparity of exposure of both illnesses.

However - suicide kills as many people a year in Australia as breast cancer does. Despite this - the awareness and open discussion of suicide is entirely different. There is still such misunderstanding and skepticism around mental illness - so I am quite passionate about bringing it into the open and breaking the stigma.

Suicide has claimed many athletes now across the world - and it still draws comments like I saw today in an article about Danny Frawley where someone said that they couldn't understand why he felt the way he did (referring to his mental health battles). That's the thing - depression and anxiety don't care how much money you have, how adored by people you are, how famous you are, how much you have to live for on paper. It doesn't care that you have family and friends who love you. It attacks indiscriminatly and it attacks people in different ways.

We need better ways of communicating about these things so if we do have friends or family who are struggling they can feel that it's not something to hide or feel ashamed of.

 

[KOLOKOTRONIS]

Horrible news for the Frawley family and the community.

If this was an act of suicide (as speculated), then surely the same attention needs to be given to this difficult topic.

Suicide was once a crime in Victoria before its abrogation, so the topic has always been hairy to say the least. Not to mention Christianity and the religious component of suicide which is a major issue.

Ultimately, the conversation needs to be had. A round of football needs to be dedicated to mental health and suicide. It is as serious as cancer.

KOLOKOTRONIS

 

[Carl Spackler]

Can I merely point out that cause of death has not been released yet? I know the papers are all but saying it was suicide, but that garbage ambulance chasing and gossip helps no one, particularly those most affected by his death like, you know, his family. A guy at work here is very mildly connected with the situation and says that there is talk it was an unfortunately timed heart attack.

Who knows? Could easily be wishful thinking at a tough time. But a little patience, particularly by those of us that have nothing but a celebrity curiosity on his specific situation, would be well-served by just a little patience before commenting too authoritatively one way or another.

EDIT: For perspective, it could take four to six weeks before the coroner releases his findings. So perhaps more than a bit of patience.

 

[Tassie Cryptik]

For perspective , and from experience , coroners dont normally release suicide findings
And not all coroners are men.

 

[Carl Spackler]

For perspective , and from experience , coroners dont normally release suicide findings
And not all coroners are men.

I have sympathy for your situation. I, too, have troubling and close experience with a suicide, although different circumstances from yours that you shared. Just last week, in fact, if I must justify myself further.

I choose not to argue English grammar or phraseology.

 

[CD Xbow]

I'm not sure speculating about whether Danny Frawley's death was suicide is right, as there are many other things that can cause single car accidents, notably micro-sleeps and medical illness. That said, there are a number of single car accidents where suicide seems the likely the cause and I guess anything that helps bring discussion of depression and mental illness into the open is a good thing. So in that spirit I will share a little of my own experience.

A few years ago as my relationship was falling apart, I developed a profound, deep, dark depression. There were times when I would be standing at the tram stop in Bridge rd and as the tram trundled up I would think, I can end the pain just by falling in front of it. Sometimes that's all you want is for the pain to end and an 'accident' certainly seemed attractive way to do because suicide is so destructive to family and friends, not just the loss, but the incredible guilt they will feel. I have lost a few friends to suicide and I know the incredible guilt and blame you feel.

Therapy, happy pills, friends, art and getting out of a toxic relationship have helped me. I'm certainly glad I didn't, but I can see how easy it would be when you are not thinking right.

My friends have been supportive and even most institutions have been, including the Tax department! The only organisation that wasn't helpful, and contributed majorly to my depression was my professional body, who were a bunch of C****, ironic given my profession.

Life is very short and precious, and as they say about retired sportsman, 'you're a long time out of it.' So if you are depressed and struggling, please, please get help.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

It has now been declared publicly that the death will not be counted against the road toll.

With that I think we can all move on from speculating now.


It’s ******* tragic that a bloke as widely loved as Spud was has gone in such a way.

 

[kirbatron]

It has now been declared publicly that the death will not be counted against the road toll.

With that I think we can all move on from speculating now.


It’s ******* tragic that a bloke as widely loved as Spud was has gone in such a way.

Agreed... just so sad.

One of the news articles with his cousin that left the flower at the tree. there are 2 photos in the article & one of them is quite telling.

Complete tragedy.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

It was suicide unfortunately. I have been told that there were no traces of slowing down at the scene.

 

[TylerDurden]

It was suicide unfortunately. I have been told that there were no traces of slowing down at the scene.

Other rumour is a heart attack mate.

 

[MightyHawks]

I'm not sure why people are so quick to have a go at Jeff here

If you'd watched Fox Footy last night then his colleagues were certainly in no doubt what caused the accident

It's probable that there was something that hadn't been released to the media at the time that his family / friends / colleagues would have been aware of

And now is a good time to talk about mental health

When Sam Newman had prostate cancer, there was a huge spike in men having tests.
When Kylie Minogue had breast cancer, there was a huge spike in women having tests.

I've never met Danny Frawley, but I'm sure he'd like to know there was an increase in people talking to someone about their own mental health issues

There's been a thread on Big Footy about it for a few years now. If you have a skim through a page or two you'll see people sharing things and supporting others.

just picking a random post from a random page:
"First appointment with a physiatrist tomorrow

Little nervous but hopefully helps going forward"

There's certainly a lot of private messaging going on between people in that thread too

If you do have some issues and don't have anyone to talk to about it then go have a read of a few pages of the thread and if it's something you think you could contribute to and feel comfortable with then get posting

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[Ned Ryerson]

In addition to those willing to sink the boots so qiuckly into Jeff yesterday - I note his comments today on 3AW:

"He did [come to me to talk about his depression] a couple of years ago and he has been struggling for a number of years as he himself has admitted. But ... he always, when he could, put on a brave face. He didn't try to impose his condition on anyone else but it has been an issue he has been dealing with for a few years now sadly."

Obviously Jeff has first hand knowledge of Frawley's battles.

 

[QuietB]

Can I merely point out that cause of death has not been released yet? I know the papers are all but saying it was suicide, but that garbage ambulance chasing and gossip helps no one, particularly those most affected by his death like, you know, his family. A guy at work here is very mildly connected with the situation and says that there is talk it was an unfortunately timed heart attack.

Who knows? Could easily be wishful thinking at a tough time. But a little patience, particularly by those of us that have nothing but a celebrity curiosity on his specific situation, would be well-served by just a little patience before commenting too authoritatively one way or another.

EDIT: For perspective, it could take four to six weeks before the coroner releases his findings. So perhaps more than a bit of patience.

It will take 9-12 months before a final report is issued.

 

[Shot of Jaeger]

Whatever the reason for his death I'd rather just hope that his family is going to cope ok and remember the countless hilarious moments he has had over the years on The Rub and The Bounce. Top bloke and always made everyone laugh. Favourite moment was when he chased that mailman on yesterday's heroes on The Bounce.
Hilarious. I can post a YouTube link if anyone wants to see it.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

In addition to those willing to sink the boots so qiuckly into Jeff yesterday - I note his comments today on 3AW:

"He did [come to me to talk about his depression] a couple of years ago and he has been struggling for a number of years as he himself has admitted. But ... he always, when he could, put on a brave face. He didn't try to impose his condition on anyone else but it has been an issue he has been dealing with for a few years now sadly."

Obviously Jeff has first hand knowledge of Frawley's battles.

Whether he did have knowledge or not the timing of his implication was very poor when people were still coming to terms with the fact that Frawley was killled.

He didn’t need to say it in such a way that invited speculation.

 

[Manila_Hawk]

Whether he did have knowledge or not the timing of his implication was very poor when people were still coming to terms with the fact that Frawley was killled.

He didn’t need to say it in such a way that invited speculation.

Agreed Abasi.

Whether it's true or not, it makes a unexpected and very sad situation even worse.

Let people grieve and come to terms with the loss first... then address the cause after a respectful period.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Whether he did have knowledge or not the timing of his implication was very poor when people were still coming to terms with the fact that Frawley was killled.

He didn’t need to say it in such a way that invited speculation.

There were press reports in the evening insinuating much heavier than what Kennett did. Being that Jeff has worked with BB, is familiar with these issues and likely knows many of the parties at play - I am happy to trust his judgement on this one. I respect that others might disagree with me.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

There were press reports in the evening insinuating much heavier than what Kennett did. Being that Jeff has worked with BB, is familiar with these issues and likely knows many of the parties at play - I am happy to trust his judgement on this one. I respect that others might disagree with me.

There was and Chip LeGrand is a ******* campaigner for writing what he did.