Free Agency Jade Gresham [Joins Essendon as RFA]

[Snuffaluphagus]

Snuffaluphagus

Definitely better for Essendon but seems a harder sell to get passed the AFL and different to what Ralph was suggesting (though I'd doubt he could actually understand what was explained to him). If nothing else, really interested to see if anything comes of it, new precedent to be set

 

[Bad Seed]

It is absolutely delusional to think Shiel is worthless. He would walk into the Saints midfield and make that team stronger immediately.

The scenario is simple.

Essendon agree to pay Gresham the salary that nets Saints band 1 compo.

Saints net pick 13.

Essendon send Shiel to the Saints for pick 13 and likely covering most of his salary.

The only reason pick 13 exists in this scenario is because Essendon agree to wear the salary and thus trigger band 1. Otherwise, Saints likely to get band 2 or 3 compo and a pick in the 30's or 40's.

Sure they can match, and Essendon could just walk away and Saints keep a player on overs who doesn't really want to be there.

Effectively, instead of Saints getting a pick in the 30's or 40's as compo for Gresham, they are getting Shiel.

It is a good deal for both clubs. Biggest winner is Gresham.

 

[rusman]

How is it relevant? You dont make choices on whether another club benefits, only how it impacts your club.

Best thing written in the last 500 posts.

 

[tiger_tough]

Essendond going to 'win' yet another trade week aren't they?

 

[The Boar]

It is absolutely delusional to think Shiel is worthless. He would walk into the Saints midfield and make that team stronger immediately.

The scenario is simple.

Essendon agree to pay Gresham the salary that nets Saints band 1 compo.

Saints net pick 13.

Essendon send Shiel to the Saints for pick 13 and likely covering most of his salary.

The only reason pick 13 exists in this scenario is because Essendon agree to wear the salary and thus trigger band 1. Otherwise, Saints likely to get band 2 or 3 compo and a pick in the 30's or 40's.

Sure they can match, and Essendon could just walk away and Saints keep a player on overs who doesn't really want to be there.

Effectively, instead of Saints getting a pick in the 30's or 40's as compo for Gresham, they are getting Shiel.

It is a good deal for both clubs. Biggest winner is Gresham.

Won't happen, Saints are chasing more first round picks and Pick 13 (or 19) is central to that.

Saints effectively losing Gresham and gaining Shiel alone is a nett loss for StK.

 

[BrutThough]

It is absolutely delusional to think Shiel is worthless. He would walk into the Saints midfield and make that team stronger immediately.

The scenario is simple.

Essendon agree to pay Gresham the salary that nets Saints band 1 compo.

Saints net pick 13.

Essendon send Shiel to the Saints for pick 13 and likely covering most of his salary.

The only reason pick 13 exists in this scenario is because Essendon agree to wear the salary and thus trigger band 1. Otherwise, Saints likely to get band 2 or 3 compo and a pick in the 30's or 40's.

Sure they can match, and Essendon could just walk away and Saints keep a player on overs who doesn't really want to be there.

Effectively, instead of Saints getting a pick in the 30's or 40's as compo for Gresham, they are getting Shiel.

It is a good deal for both clubs. Biggest winner is Gresham.

You cant call people delusional then write out a trade where Shiel is netting you pick 13.

 

[BrutThough]

Apparently Vozzo doesn't like those sort of clauses either, so we're not likely to start agreeing to them in the near future.

If it's not added in, Gresh is even more unlikely to accept a deal starting with a 5.

Would be poor management to accept something that will be under the AFL average moving forward.

 

[BrutThough]

Saints effectively losing Gresham and gaining Shiel alone is a nett loss for StK.

Particularly when we have publicly stated the desire to head to the draft this year.

 

[Lore]

If it's not added in, Gresh is even more unlikely to accept a deal starting with a 5.

Would be poor management to accept something that will be under the AFL average moving forward.

Probably explains why he’d have a bigger number on it now and trigger a higher compo band for FA without breaking the bank later though.

 

[bomberstomake8]

People are getting very worked up over a John Ralph snippet.

Fact is the deal makes little sense for either club so either there is more to it or Ralph is off the mark.

The former is possible. I can imagine both Silvagni and Dodoro trying to rort the system but it would obviously have to work for both clubs.

Shiel is next to worthless in a trade and at the same time though, he's hardly holding the Bombers back with only one year to run on his contract.

I see no way the Saints handing over 13 for him and it's very unlikely we also end up woth 13 unless there is something of note going back to the Bombers for upping the Gresham contract.

In the end I doubt any of it eventuates so we can probably all just take a chill pill.

the deal (being reported) won’t be allowed by the afl but it would definitely make sense for the saints. From what I read the bombers would pay both Gresham and shiels contracts. Greshams deal would be band 1. So for the bombers they would be using a ridiculous amount of salary cap on two fringe players to get pick 13 and probably trading second rounder back. For the saints they would be trading Gresham for Shiel and paying zero salary and getting a second rounder. So essentially if the saints are now paying $500k for a forward pocket they end up paying $0 for a midfielder and get a second rounder. You leave with $500k cap space, a second rounder for Gresham. Makes massive sense for the saints for mine. Again if the afl allowed it, which is an enormous if

 

[bomberstomake8]

T

Won't happen, Saints are chasing more first round picks and Pick 13 (or 19) is central to that.

Saints effectively losing Gresham and gaining Shiel alone is a nett loss for StK.

Agree to disagree on Gresham vs Shiel. You are missing two points though, one is that you don’t have pick 13 without this deal. The second is that if bombers pay shiels salary you also get $500k in cap space and potentially a third round pick coming back.

If they afl allowed this it’s a true win win for both clubs.

Saints get $500k in cap space, Shiel and a second or third round pick for Gresham

Bombers get pick 13 and Gresham for Shiel, probably $1mil in salary cap taken up and say a third rounder

The afl won’t allow it though

 

[botts]

T

Agree to disagree on Gresham vs Shiel. You are missing two points though, one is that you don’t have pick 13 without this deal. The second is that if bombers pay shiels salary you also get $500k in cap space and potentially a third round pick coming back.

If they afl allowed this it’s a true win win for both clubs.

Saints get $500k in cap space, Shiel and a second or third round pick for Gresham

Bombers get pick 13 and Gresham for Shiel, probably $1mil in salary cap taken up and say a third rounder

The afl won’t allow it though

The whole reason the saints want to do something like this is to get a first round compo. We want to go to the draft. We arnt trading a first back to you. End of storey. Wonder if the hawks come nocking after they have missed on everyone

 

[bomberstomake8]

The whole reason the saints want to do something like this is to get a first round compo. We want to go to the draft. We arnt trading a first back to you. End of storey. Wonder if the hawks come nocking after they have missed on everyone

haha Jeez, basic logic goes out the window with you. Trade Gresham to hawks, you’ll get at best a second round compo.

Just to be clear what you’re essentially saying is you rate a second round pick ahead of Shiel, salary cap room and a second or third round pick.

Im really confused by your choices but hey that’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it

 

[botts]

haha Jeez, basic logic goes out the window with you. Trade Gresham to hawks, you’ll get at best a second round compo.

Just to be clear what you’re essentially saying is you rate a second round pick ahead of Shiel, salary cap room and a second or third round pick.

Im really confused by your choices but hey that’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Saints may as well shut up shop if they lose Gresham and then send the first rounder back to Essendon.

 

[botts]

Saints may as well shut up shop if they lose Gresham and then send the first rounder back to Essendon.

no one is that dumb though. Not even sos

 

[jimmytigs]

Saints may as well shut up shop if they lose Gresham and then send the first rounder back to Essendon.

shouldnt be surprised that the most sensible post in all of this comes from a non saints or essendon fan,trying to outdo each other in the delusional stakes,happy to say a couple of them are winning by suggesting the opposite of this sensible post,but some of our guys giving them a good run

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

As demonstrated by each set of posters, who gets 13 is the hardest thing to work out in how the trade makes sense. Whoever ends up with it is clearly the bigger winner.

Personally, I think Gresham is worth more if only because of the age difference so Saints would need the pick 13. The more I think about it, I do think there is a way for both teams to get ahead (just needs messing with picks) but one team would definitely “win more”

 

[Keystone agony]

As demonstrated by each set of posters, who gets 13 is the hardest thing to work out in how the trade makes sense. Whoever ends up with it is clearly the bigger winner.

Personally, I think Gresham is worth more if only because of the age difference so Saints would need the pick 13. The more I think about it, I do think there is a way for both teams to get ahead (just needs messing with picks) but one team would definitely “win more”

Saints could get 13 which likely gets the 16th best in the draft as compo

Or pick 19 which gets the 24th best player in the draft (Maybe later, Cleary) as compo

The difference between the 2 would be about pick ~22 cost (22 and 24 for 16)

But all this is apparently not allowed and been prevented previously

 

[Realist#1]

I think in reality essendon supporters will be furious with this deal regardless. We were looking forward to getting shiel off our books and now you're telling me we're over paying Gresham to keep our own second round pick? Seems *ed. Genuinely sick of this club if it goes through without something of worth coming back our way

I think the art of list management is lost on the general public.

People asking what the benefit of getting Shiels heavy contract off the books would provide for Essendon? The benefit is that you're not investing heavily into one player across your list who, by the end of the year wasn't making it into the starting 22, and may not be in the clubs future plans given his age, injury history, lack of form, and by the looks of it investment by the club moving forward.

In a competition that standardises all teams through a salary cap arrangement, clubs are looking for any competitive advantage to get a leg up on the competition, and being able to financially manage your TPP so that the majority of investment is built into your starting 22-25 is a clear way of going about this. Geelong do it brilliantly by spreading wealth across probably 25-30 players on its list to have mature depth.

Essendon may see this as an opportunity to front load more and push hard again for FA next year if the opportunity arose, or see positives in being able to move Shiel on now and be really competitive in the Trade and FA market if Dylan isn't being factored into their plans in 2024 onwards.

I understand he may have been injured, but he was starting sub 2 or 3 times in the last few weeks whilst he remained out of the team. I think that speaks for something, and Hobbs, Tsatas, Caldwell, Perkins would all be pushing for more midfield time moving forward.

It makes some sense.

realise

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I think in reality essendon supporters will be furious with this deal regardless. We were looking forward to getting shiel off our books and now you're telling me we're over paying Gresham to keep our own second round pick? Seems ******ed. Genuinely sick of this club if it goes through without something of worth coming back our way


realise

I don’t think it’s like that though. You personally seem to want Shiel off your books. Seems like you would be overpaying (slightly) to give them 19 for Gresham then over paying a bit more (band 1) to get Shiel off the books and get something half decent back in

 

[Realist#1]

It depends on how you value Gresham. I for one don't rate him at all. At most he's worth 400k a year. I look at it in the sense of.. we're a rebuilding team with a lot of free cap space. Do we want to use it on a mid forward who makes minimal impact? Saints actually get a player that helps them improve as one of the worst mids in the comp (this makes sense for them) Gresham will be delisted in 2 years so this is no positive for us

I don’t think it’s like that though. You personally seem to want Shiel off your books. Seems like you would be overpaying (slightly) to give them 19 for Gresham then over paying a bit more (band 1) to get Shiel off the books and get something half decent back

 

[Duckworth]

I don’t think it’s like that though. You personally seem to want Shiel off your books. Seems like you would be overpaying (slightly) to give them 19 for Gresham then over paying a bit more (band 1) to get Shiel off the books and get something half decent back in

The way it is set up, whoever doesn’t get pick #13 loses. As there is no reason for Essendon to pay extra to create it, if they aren’t going to get it, the deal falls over.

Best bet is Gresham goes for a band 2 or 3. Shiel goes if he wants for a later pick. Then everyone can try and upgrade later on with Gold Coast or whatever.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Gresham is best 22 at every club. Even at his worst the Saints couldn't find a way to drop him.

He needs a fresh start and a few tweaks to get back to his best but he is still an AFL quality player at the minimum, if you get him back to his best he will kick you 35 goals at half forward whilst chopping out in the middle.

This idea that he is some spud who will be delisted in 2 years is ridiculous. Band 1 money is a bit too deep but for free on a reasonable wage, Essendon would be silly to turn him down.

 

[Duckworth]

Gresham is best 22 at every club. Even at his worst the Saints couldn't find a way to drop him.

He needs a fresh start and a few tweaks to get back to his best but he is still an AFL quality player at the minimum, if you get him back to his best he will kick you 35 goals at half forward whilst chopping out in the middle.

This idea that he is some spud who will be delisted in 2 years is ridiculous. Band 1 money is a bit too deep but for free on a reasonable wage, Essendon would be silly to turn him down.

Which of the following might be genuine criticisms?
Inconsistent. Not suited to midfield. Slow. Poor overhead?