Free Agency Jade Gresham [Joins Essendon as RFA]

[sexyhunk]

Lol the afl will shut this s**t down. Can’t believe you’re all still debating about it. Clear rorting of the free agency comps. Gresham is worth band 3 maximum and shiel is worth sweet fa. Anyone wanna give jeka 800k a year and we’ll give them pick 30 back for a spud?

exactly, is so easy to make these trade up. Something like I think we havent delisted Sam Mengola yet, so GWS can sign him for 800k so we get a band 1 compo. We then give a 2nd round pick for Nick Haynes. Geelong bought a 1 st round pick by paying Nick Haynes, GSW pay Menegola the money they committed to Haynes anyway and get a 2 nd pick.

If you dont like Menagola, no problems, interchange any free agent from any club.

 

[rusman]

If we're the only ones interested, it says a lot about us and Gresham.

He was very poor this year when I watched him.

exactly, is so easy to make these trade up. Something like I think we havent delisted Sam Mengola yet, so GWS can sign him for 800k so we get a band 1 compo. We then give a 2nd round pick for Nick Haynes. Geelong bought a 1 st round pick by paying Nick Haynes, GSW pay Menegola the money they committed to Haynes anyway and get a 2 nd pick.

If you dont like Menagola, no problems, interchange any free agent from any club.

Spot on.

Imagine every team when they finnish last would be negotiating with every team in the league to pay band 1 for (insert free agent) and in exchange trade a future first or whatever so they get pick 1&2.

Big can of worms.

 

[jdstorm]

Would Essendon supporters rather keep Shiel if it meant you lost a good young player courted by another team in 2024, or couldn't be as aggressive in pursuit of FAs compared to other teams?

Dylan Sheil’s contract expires for the 2024 offseason so his money isn’t a concern for that

 

[SaintsSeptember]

exactly, is so easy to make these trade up. Something like I think we havent delisted Sam Mengola yet, so GWS can sign him for 800k so we get a band 1 compo. We then give a 2nd round pick for Nick Haynes. Geelong bought a 1 st round pick by paying Nick Haynes, GSW pay Menegola the money they committed to Haynes anyway and get a 2 nd pick.

If you dont like Menagola, no problems, interchange any free agent from any club.

What Gresham's compensation is worth is based on whatever contract he gets.
Saints were not prepared to offer him what he'd been on for his previous contract. My gut feeling ( before Ralph and his weird theory ) was that they'd offer him something that would be equivalent to a band 3 offer, and that he'd leave for a band 2 triggering offer.

 

[freddy mercury]

Just a straight swap you'd think, lost clogger for list clogger.

 

[TheGrizz]

Would Essendon supporters rather keep Shiel if it meant you lost a good young player courted by another team in 2024, or couldn't be as aggressive in pursuit of FAs compared to other teams?

We are already aggressive with free agents, and Shiel's deal expires next year.

Keeping on our books for next year might have the benefit of opening more space up in a year's time when there are a stack of quality tall forwards on the market.

 

[Significant]

Dylan Sheil’s contract expires for the 2024 offseason so his money isn’t a concern for that

Sure it's only for one year, but List Managers are looking beyond one year, and Shiel is contributing f*** all success to Essendon in the coming year(s).

Surely this money would be better siphoned to extend the talented youngsters, some of which come out of contract next year (bring $$$ forward to 2024), and then utilising the gaping hole to be EXTREMELY competitive in the FA market next year when several forwards are able to be targeted and are of key strategic significance to Essendon and your list build?

IMO, deals will be undertaken separately, highly doubt we get a Band 1 for Gresham, highly doubt Essendon get anything more than a third rounder (unless they are paying some salary) for Shiel.

I'll reiterate, the general public do not appreciate or understand the concept of TPP management and the importance of salary dumping for teams which see a strategic opportunity to recharge lists.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Just a straight swap you'd think, lost clogger for list clogger.

Sure, except Gresham is a free agent, so you wouldn't think that at all. You can't attach a trade to a free agency deal.
You'd think that someone would offer him the deal he's after..... or not.

 

[Joao]

As a neutral it would be amazing for the Saints to do the whole, yeah we'll tots trade 13 back to your Shiel and then not do it. Imagine being the next club to deal with Dodo after that?

 

[freddy mercury]

Sure, except Gresham is a free agent, so you wouldn't think that at all. You can't attach a trade to a free agency deal.
You'd think that someone would offer him the deal he's after..... or not.

I see. Obviously a house hold name

 

[Caligo]

If we're the only ones interested, it says a lot about us and Gresham.

I would have thought hawthorn would ask the question. I have concerns about his defence though so happy we aren't in the race.

 

[freddy mercury]

I would have thought hawthorn would ask the question. I have concerns about his defence though so happy we aren't in the race.

What position does he play

 

[Caligo]

What position does he play

Not really sure he has one but I would say at his best a half forward flank.

They still need to defend though or the ball just flies out of the opposing back 50. It is actually hawthorn's biggest problem. It is just so easy for opposition to transition out of our forward half.

 

[Lore]

If we're the only ones interested, it says a lot about us and Gresham.

He had a couple of clubs reportedly interested in him a while back, but the gossip now from the likes of Cal Twomey is that he is very much expected to seek a move and Twomey would be very surprised if he's not at Essendon next year. So I guess the read on that is that other clubs have concluded he's made up his mind and they've moved on, so there's no new noise from anywhere about it that the journos would otherwise be nammering about.

 

[jdstorm]

Sure it's only for one year, but List Managers are looking beyond one year, and Shiel is contributing f*** all success to Essendon in the coming year(s).

Surely this money would be better siphoned to extend the talented youngsters, some of which come out of contract next year (bring $$$ forward to 2024), and then utilising the gaping hole to be EXTREMELY competitive in the FA market next year when several forwards are able to be targeted and are of key strategic significance to Essendon and your list build?

IMO, deals will be undertaken separately, highly doubt we get a Band 1 for Gresham, highly doubt Essendon get anything more than a third rounder (unless they are paying some salary) for Shiel.

I'll reiterate, the general public do not appreciate or understand the concept of TPP management and the importance of salary dumping for teams which see a strategic opportunity to recharge lists.

Firstly I just want to say how nice it is to have a conversation with someone who understands this stuff more then the average person.

In terms of Essendons salary cap. They have been firmly under the cap since Daniher/Saad/Fantasia left in 2020. Rolling forward the 5% since they haven’t had enough players worth paying.

They have also been doing frontloaded contracts. To free up space as much as possible. They are drowning in space.

I’d also imagine that due to the cap set to rise significantly next season many of those players out of contract in 2024 would rather wait and sign long term contracts under the new tv deal.

So in that way Sheil’s contract is just sunk cost. They can’t really use the money this year in a useful way. The more valuable thing to Essendon is likely the list spot and the chance to rebalance the list as well as the minutes that can be given to their younger mids like Caldwell Hobbs and Tsatas.

Due to this I’d imagine Essendon/Sheils team are shopping him to an assortment of Melbourne clubs with Essendon being willing to pay a significant portion of his contract to make his contract a neutral or team friendly contract depending on the available return.

Realistically I’d say he’s worth a 3rd on a neutral deal and a 2nd on a team friendly deal where Essendon pays him close to 100% of his contract.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I see. Obviously a house hold name

It makes no difference whether you've heard of him or not.
You don't get this free agency thing do you?

 

[ben0]

As a neutral it would be amazing for the Saints to do the whole, yeah we'll tots trade 13 back to your Shiel and then not do it. Imagine being the next club to deal with Dodo after that?

Absolutely!! Would love to see this happen. It would be amazing to put one over dodo

 

[freddy mercury]

It makes no difference whether you've heard of him or not.
You don't get this free agency thing do you?

Nah, apparently you can move clubs without being traded for or something and the club can either match the deal offered or reject it and get compensation pick? Idk, I really don't get it.

 

[_Maximus_12]

The AFL won’t allow us to trade our compensation pick back to Essendon, and we won’t trade our current pick 12.
So it indeed looks like ‘a pick buy’ where we’re happy to absorb the $700k(ish) in shiels last year to have a better pick.

Getting $700k off the books for Shiel, will allow you to bring forward some contracts to meet the cap, and consequently open up some salary cap in 2024/25 to go after the key forward you so desperately need.

It’s not really a case of us chasing Shiel. No one in their right mind would cough up a first or second rounder for a 31 year old who has struggled to stay on the park.

 

[stfan]

As a neutral it would be amazing for the Saints to do the whole, yeah we'll tots trade 13 back to your Shiel and then not do it. Imagine being the next club to deal with Dodo after that?

Well 1/ Dodo is on the way out anyway.

and 2/ It would be trading suicide for St Kilda, as would struggle to get future deals done with any club.

 

[Joao]

Well 1/ Dodo is on the way out anyway.

and 2/ It would be trading suicide for St Kilda, as would struggle to get future deals done with any club.

I don't care about any of that, I just want the entertainment.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Well 1/ Dodo is on the way out anyway.

and 2/ It would be trading suicide for St Kilda, as would struggle to get future deals done with any club.

In reality there aren't many handshake deals, was there one a couple of years ago where someone expected something coming back and it never happened?

 

[Caligo]

In reality there aren't many handshake deals, was there one a couple of years ago where someone expected something coming back and it never happened?

I don't know, but would be interested to hear about it.

 

[stfan]

As I posted earlier on in this thread the "Shiel Deal" is only IMO going to eventuate if the Essendon List Management Team sees value in removing Shiel from their list.

I am not saying whether they do , or don't, but if this in itself is not of value to them, then the Shiel Deal is not going to happen.

It will just be a RFA trade for Gresham. If they do see value in removing Shiel from their list, then a Shield Deal can achieve that and a higher pick (maybe even a second rounder) than if they just try and trade Shiel out as a stand alone trade. I doubt the Saints would, and have no knowledge if any other club would or not.

St Kilda are simply (unfortunately) not in the window to top and up and try and win the flag in 2024. So to top up with an older player who only has a year or two left, and a poor record over the last 4 seasons, is not going to be the reason why Shield might land at St Kilda for 2024. Especially when all the other trade targets are young, and more emerging players like Henry and Dow, rather than players in their prime.

Nothing wrong with topping up if you are in the window. Pies boosted their list in the offseason and won the flag this year. Cats went with the extreme top up model to boost a very good last and win the 2022 Flag.

 

[stfan]

In reality there aren't many handshake deals, was there one a couple of years ago where someone expected something coming back and it never happened?

I think that there have been a number of low value trades where clubs agree that they will try and trade back certain value if other deals go as hoped/expected. It does not always work out and so some last minute deals go through at less than one party would have hoped.

From memory Membrey was such a deal where an in principle trade was agreed to, but St Kilda could not get the required pick to trade, and so the Swans just in the end let Membrey be a DFA.

Following the lack of opportunities at the Swans, Membrey requested a trade to St Kilda. The two clubs could not agree on a trade and with Membrey out of contract, Sydney delisted the forward. Membrey then signed with St Kilda as a delisted free agent.[9] On his departure, Sydney Coach John Longmire said to Membrey "we know you’re good enough to play senior football. As much as we want you, you have our blessing to leave."