Political Discussion part #2 - Let’s go out for 10 Big Macs at the Engadine Maccas!!

[Mike Smyth]

More cuts to the ABC on the way

https://www.smh.com.au/entertainmen...WmJihMA7Zk54lp2Tzq7-rcvCOU#Echobox=1558332217

Privatize it or let it die. Complete waste of tax payers money.

 

[Carmo]

I did admit there was some personal bias in my assessment as I think there is in yours. 'more educated so they understand the harms of inequality'? Please. That just reeks of prejudice against the great unwashed, and gives the residents of the affluent suburbs way, way too much credit.

There's that word again. Define "wealthiest". I believe that great majority of tax cuts (through adjustment of thresholds) have gone to the middle and lower ends of the scale.

Well, alright, can you and or everyone in here explain to me the effects of inequality as best as they understand it. Everyone in here would be middle class and above, I'm keen to see how well you guys know. I have my doubts that you even understand half the story and that's even with me having given a few lessons on it in here.

Wealthiest can start at about top 20% of income or wealth. Then the higher you go above that, to the top 10,5,1, 0.1% the more it applies.

When I say tax, I mean the effect of the entire system, not the nominal rates. So the wealthiest in Australia have a nominal rate of 45%. In practice, if someone earning enough to be in that bracket is actually paying that amount, they're doing it wrong. So cuts to the thresholds are almost a insignificant sideshow, its all the other loopholes that exist and are expanding that are the main show. Attached is an image from @DPlunky on twitter who is an awesome resource on tax transfers for income-y type stuff. If you have a look here, only the 25-49k bracket even gets close to the 175k and 200k brackets. Everyone else is doing less well relative to the two highest brackets here, since the start of parliament 40. If you add in their ability to use things like negative gearing and know (and have the money to do) all the offsets and deductions tricks they're miles in front.

 

[brucetiki]

Suspicious package found at Sarah Hanson-Young’s office.

https://7news.com.au/news/sa/greens...01Gp_mjax-i4O2wqsZEzTkaKxxZdnpI8XVx7islz4cuFw

 

[Sanders]

She’s not wrong though....and I can’t stand her.

Of course she’s ******* wrong, and so are you

 

[arrowman]

Yes it went up unsurprisingly given the result but the overall market was influenced by the following:-

Health Funds/Health Care stocks went up 15.79% and 11.46%. Why? The ALP was going introduce a cap on annual premium increases of 2.0%. ALP lost, who now benefits?

Banks went up 9.21%, 7.90%, 7.78% and 6.27%. Why? The ALP was going to introduce to stop the franking credits cash refund therefore having higher paying dividend stocks would not be advantageous. ALP loses, who now benefits?

The 4 banks are 4 of the top 6 stocks in the ASX. The overall market was up 1.6%.

It really isn't rocket science.

Oh I get that, it was more tongue in cheek vis a vis the comment about electricity prices.

But as for the banks - you know, your average conservative mum & dad investor, super funds and the like. No big deal and not a bad thing.

 

[arrowman]

Lets see what happens if we do go into recession in 2020/2021.

Sure, let's see, and let's debate the right approach if it happens. I'm just not aware that recession is on the radar of any qualified commentators, or indeed that ALP policy as taken to this election was any sort of buffer against it.

 

[Sanders]

????

This was my original question to you.

"Where do you think they should go with their policies to target 'ordinary Australians'"

I was trying to ask you what you thought were good policies to win back support because I thought you would be good to engage with especially on the economy.

Complete and utterly irrelevant

It doesn’t matter what I think, it matters what millions of Australians think

At the moment we know what they don’t want, I would suggest more listening and less telling

The echo chamber of Labor’s policy development is undoubtedly the problem. The smug entitled sense of knowing better

My own personal view is that most people didn’t want the liberal government returned, but did not care for the issues as identified by the opposition.

They weren’t and aren’t putting forward the things people care about.

Labor put forward a policy agenda based on what they thought people should want. Should care about. But didn’t.

I also think they were poor at convincing people of their own competence, regardless of policy

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Kane, would say the Coalition took it to another level. ALP had a vision only problem there was too much and therefore too many targets. Guarantee that won't occur next time.

No different to the ALP with mediscare.

The rusted on supporters of each party keep claiming the other party does it more, when both have been guilty of doing it over the years.

 

[arrowman]

Avoidance syndrome. The ugly word abbott was mentioned and budget was mentioned. That was classic neolberalism austerity stuff. Who is going to wear it if things turn down? Also i am not familiar with this social media put down stuff what does campaigner and snicker supposed to mean?

1. Austerity is not the only alternative to tax & spend.
2. "Campaigner" was a tongue in cheek reference to what the Bigfooty swear filter does to a certain c-word. Just a joke.

 

[Crowhorse]

Well, alright, can you and or everyone in here explain to me the effects of inequality as best as they understand it. Everyone in here would be middle class and above, I'm keen to see how well you guys know. I have my doubts that you even understand half the story and that's even with me having given a few lessons on it in here.

Wealthiest can start at about top 20% of income or wealth. Then the higher you go above that, to the top 10,5,1, 0.1% the more it applies.

When I say tax, I mean the effect of the entire system, not the nominal rates. So the wealthiest in Australia have a nominal rate of 45%. In practice, if someone earning enough to be in that bracket is actually paying that amount, they're doing it wrong. So cuts to the thresholds are almost a insignificant sideshow, its all the other loopholes that exist and are expanding that are the main show. Attached is an image from @DPlunky on twitter who is an awesome resource on tax transfers for income-y type stuff. If you have a look here, only the 25-49k bracket even gets close to the 175k and 200k brackets. Everyone else is doing less well relative to the two highest brackets here, since the start of parliament 40. If you add in their ability to use things like negative gearing and know (and have the money to do) all the offsets and deductions tricks they're miles in front.


View attachment 677590

I would move on from Bill’s shonky tax political campaign. He thought he was exposing rorts but he was going against tax legislation that his own predecessors put in place. It was a big stretch considering he had no treasury background and had NFI what he was talking about.

Practically speaking federal treasury work hard advising governments on concerns and loopholes exists and where further tweaks can happen to generate more tax revenue. Loopholes are being blocked up on an annual basis, more so now than ever. Tax enforcement is also increasing as technology improves.

There was a public study done on full tax reform (the Henry review), it was rejected by the labour government at the time.

Government organisations are rife with inefficiencies and overpaid staff. We’d be better off as a nation fixing those costs before asking the population to hand over more of there income.

 

[Sanders]

I understood what you were doing. That sequence of conversation is pretty funny. Seems Sanders knows everything until you need him to know something.

Yawn. As usual Carmo. Just so... boring

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I never understood why anyone expected earth shattering election policies from a 2 term government. What super important changes do we think they’ll be holding back for the next 34 months?

Though I was pleased to hear Sinodinis mention that the Coalition should adopt the best parts of the ALP's policy changes, which would be smart politics.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

You are in the same bucket as Bicks.

You won, we lost but we will fight back and yes, we will get back into power in 2022. You won't be able to use Bill next time and Palmer got what he wanted (he won't be around next time and neither will his $60m advertising) and the Ad Man will be shown for what he is.

Remember, the ALP is the reformer of our society. Always has and always will be.

Liberals made tax reforms under Costello & gun control under Howard, so they are capable too..

It's more to do with visionary leadership & implementation than the party.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Privatize it or let it die. Complete waste of tax payers money.

No thanks.

I don't want a Murdoch run ABC.

 

[Sanders]

Yes it went up unsurprisingly given the result but the overall market was influenced by the following:-

Health Funds/Health Care stocks went up 15.79% and 11.46%. Why? The ALP was going introduce a cap on annual premium increases of 2.0%. ALP lost, who now benefits?

Banks went up 9.21%, 7.90%, 7.78% and 6.27%. Why? The ALP was going to introduce to stop the franking credits cash refund therefore having higher paying dividend stocks would not be advantageous. ALP loses, who now benefits?

The 4 banks are 4 of the top 6 stocks in the ASX. The overall market was up 1.6%.

It really isn't rocket science.

What also isn’t rocket science is that anti-business agendas rarely, if ever, get elected

It’s always about the economy and who is trusted most with it.

 

[FAITH]

Good words from Nick.

similarly to the gay marriage debate a while back.
i voted no to gay marriage, but respect that the majority voted yes.

i got threatened by people at my work for voting no back then, but it's all good now

 

[FAITH]

Tanya must have got the tap on the shoulder that she hasn't got the numbers as she's now withdrawn from the Leadership ballot. One would think that would clear the way for Albanese unless Bowen puts his hand up which no doubt the LNP would be hoping for with the baggage he carries.

 

[1970crow]

Liberals made tax reforms under Costello & gun control under Howard, so they are capable too..

It's more to do with visionary leadership & implementation than the party.

Turnbull got a same sex marriage vote into parliament.

 

[1970crow]

You’re so woke. So educated. I wish you were on the iron throne

Wasn’t a good spot to be sitting on today.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

My Mum used to always vote one way in the lower house and the complete opposite in the upper house.

It always sounded strange to me, but apparently it used to be common voter trait of SA voters to do this.

It's a remnant of the Democrats' (remember them?) "Keep the bastards honest" mindset

 

[Bicks]

Please ALP convince Bowen to throw his hat in the ring, please.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...eigh-up-labor-leadership-run-against-albanese
Chris Bowen and Jim Chalmers weigh up Labor leadership run against Albanese




And Doug Cameron keep this up on Social Media in retirement....please

 

[Bicks]

Pretty much sums up the ABC's Political wing....

 

[brucetiki]

Turnbull got a same sex marriage vote into parliament.

And wasted hundreds of millions of dollars on a survey to keep Abbott and friends happy.

A survey that was non-binding and caused a fair bit of damage in the community. While the end result was fantastic, the method to get there was pretty awful.

 

[1970crow]

And wasted hundreds of millions of dollars on a survey to keep Abbott and friends happy.

A survey that was non-binding and caused a fair bit of damage in the community. While the end result was fantastic, the method to get there was pretty awful.

There was no damage. Proven furphy. Was a brilliant process that Australia should be proud of.

 

[Elite Crow]

There was no damage. Proven furphy. Was a brilliant process that Australia should be proud of.

Yeah shocking that we all got a say so we could all accept the decision and move on