Political Discussion part #2 - Let’s go out for 10 Big Macs at the Engadine Maccas!!

[Deaneus!]

And to think they’re the junior partner in a loose coalition.

I think you're confusing policies you don't like, with things you don't think are costed.

You won't be able to use Bill next time and Palmer got what he wanted (he won't be around next time and neither will his $60m advertising) and the Ad Man will be shown for what he is

Palmer just successfully bought an election, why wouldn't he do it again?

They are responsible for One Nation, Clive Palmer, Fraser Anning... so they appear to have more of these types than other states.

Oddly they also have a large Greens vote there. More polarised than everywhere else?

Suspicious package found at Sarah Hanson-Young’s office.

https://7news.com.au/news/sa/greens...01Gp_mjax-i4O2wqsZEzTkaKxxZdnpI8XVx7islz4cuFw

It was addressed to SHY, but sent to the State office; a friend of mine opened it in the usual course of her employment, and she's rather distressed as you can imagine. Absolutely disgraceful act.

Since it's Tuesday, does that mean Clive Palmer will be paying his Nickel workers today?

Also, Lyle Shelton got nowhere near the Senate in QLD. "Thank God"

 

[kirky]

No winning is our way, losing is the Labor way.

Speaking of winning, who did you say over and over and over who was going to win the election?

No spinning is the Coalition way. You are so gracious when winning.

As I've previously told you, yes we lost but I remind you I'm not a financial loser by the Coalition winning - I keep my franking credits on my shares and my super fund went up yesterday.

Its all about myself for now (well sort of) as that seems to be the prevailing attitude in Australia.

 

[brucetiki]

Sunshine Coast daily in a distasteful front page with the Queensland premier in crosshairs.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2...Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1558399572

 

[kirky]

I've never felt this distraught after an election before. In. My. Life. People vote (essentially) one of two ways. You win some, you lose some. It's always just been a "ah well. Bugger" if the side you picked lost. But this was different, and I was at an absolute loss as to why this affected me so much. I was trying to explain to my friend yesterday and just ended in a puddle of tears! And she is like the least political person I know (as in, doesn't give two shits, wouldn't know who was who). I truly, deeply care what happens to the most vulnerable people in our community and I was sad for them and sad for our environment. Basically that's what it boiled down to. That's why people are lashing out. That's why people are making assumptions about those who chose to vote differently. And it's a feeling like you all turned your back on these people, and the environment. For the sake of franking credits and tax cuts. That's what it feels like. With time to process and think things through I know that's not the case for the majority. It will take time for others to process it too.

Jenny61, I understand what you are going thru and I certainly did my bit on Saturday (even though I was one to wear a financial cost which I was more than happy to do) and I saw my 83yo mum yesterday. Walked thru the door and all she could say it "why did the people do this?". She is a partly self funded retiree but was at odds as to what happened.

What I can tell you is the Liberal/ALP seats in the inner metropolitan areas did swing to the ALP (quite high in some booths by up to 11%) but the problem was the outer suburban fringes swung to the Coalition and Queensland did what it normally does. The Coalition played on their fears - retiree tax, housing tax and worst lie of all, the death tax. This analysis may help understand

https://news.theceomagazine.com/news/maps-may-reveal-why-coalition-won-australias-election/

Sometimes people vote against their best interests and this election is a case in point.

Stay strong over the next 3 years, don't give up the fight as we have to continue to challenge the "born to rule" people in our society.

 

[Elite Crow]

I've never felt this distraught after an election before. In. My. Life. People vote (essentially) one of two ways. You win some, you lose some. It's always just been a "ah well. Bugger" if the side you picked lost. But this was different, and I was at an absolute loss as to why this affected me so much. I was trying to explain to my friend yesterday and just ended in a puddle of tears! And she is like the least political person I know (as in, doesn't give two shits, wouldn't know who was who). I truly, deeply care what happens to the most vulnerable people in our community and I was sad for them and sad for our environment. Basically that's what it boiled down to. That's why people are lashing out. That's why people are making assumptions about those who chose to vote differently. And it's a feeling like you all turned your back on these people, and the environment. For the sake of franking credits and tax cuts. That's what it feels like. With time to process and think things through I know that's not the case for the majority. It will take time for others to process it too.

But sorry that’s so wrong. You have just formed an opinion of why we voted for the Coalition and why swinging voters chose not to vote Labor.

On one hand you talk about the vulnerable and then support a climate policy that would have hurt them financially that Labor couldn’t or wouldn’t release the cost, there’s a reason for that.

You can talk about saving the planet but you know that Australia going ahead of the rest of the world would not impact on the planets climate, we wouldn’t be saving anything.

That’s a large reason why they didn’t get in, he compared the cost of his policy to someone giving up 10 Big Macs a day FFS.

 

[kirky]

Sunshine Coast daily in a distasteful front page with the Queensland premier in crosshairs.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2...Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1558399572

Yep, there will go full rabid now.

Democracy controlled by the media. What a sad state of affairs.

 

[Elite Crow]

No spinning is the Coalition way. You are so gracious when winning.

As I've previously told you, yes we lost but I remind you I'm not a financial loser by the Coalition winning - I keep my franking credits on my shares and my super fund went up yesterday.

Its all about myself for now (well sort of) as that seems to be the prevailing attitude in Australia.

So how does the country going into recession help you besides point scoring on an Internet forum? You have a weird sense of what’s right.

 

[relapse]

Sunshine Coast daily in a distasteful front page with the Queensland premier in crosshairs.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2...Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1558399572

Given that it's Newscorp, is anyone honestly surprised?

Putting Murdoch and journalistic integrity in the same sentence would be an oxymoron.

 

[Deaneus!]

Given that it's Newscorp, is anyone honestly surprised?

Putting Murdoch and journalistic integrity in the same sentence would be an oxymoron.

"The people who work for Murdoch have no journalistic integrity"

that wasn't so hard

 

[Simmo28]

Good try but I didn’t say when did I? I’m not playing your silly games.

2020/2021 FY but possibly earlier.

And no I won’t leave either way.

Possibly earlier? So 2019/20?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[1970crow]

[

Sunshine Coast daily in a distasteful front page with the Queensland premier in crosshairs.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2...Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1558399572

Come on, that kind of headline has been going on for ages. Nobody is suggesting the QLD Premier should be shot. WTF is wrong with people these days.

 

[Deaneus!]

Come on, that kind of headline has been going on for ages.

But should it be?

 

[Bicks]

Good article.
Several posters on this thread should take heed but probably won't.



https://www.smh.com.au/federal-elec...=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1558384750
I'm young, I voted Liberal and I am not a bigot

On Sunday morning, many Australians found themselves staring into their morning coffee wondering at what point the Labor Party lost the unlosable election. Betting agencies had paid in favour of a Labor win days in advance; even the Liberal leader called the election win a miracle.
I am a young, female, Victorian, inner city dweller, but I made the decision to give my vote to the Liberal Party, as I have since the 2013 election, the first time I voted. However, the elation I experienced on Sunday morning over the Liberal win was short-lived.
According to social media, I: am scared, uneducated, a bigot, should be ashamed, have condemned this planet to burn, pathetic, not a feminist, probably hate gays, hate minorities, and probably want to stop women having access to abortions.
Wandering around the streets of Melbourne on this unseasonably warm Sunday, I felt many negative emotions but no regret about the ballot I cast. Instead, I was sad that many people saw Liberal voters as a negative influence on this country.
To every Greens or Labor or other minor party supporter who feels saddened or disenfranchised by the Saturday election, these facts are for you. We who voted for the Coalition did not vote out of fear, nor naivety, bigotry or anger. Rather, we voted with our hearts for a party that will do the right thing on social issues, but which can also lead a country through a challenging time economically.
Labor supporters, I am sorry you were left blindsided and heartbroken. In time you will heal and I am sure rally around your new leader. But, for now, gain heart from these facts because the members of the Coalition are not monsters, rather they are Australia's preference for a third term.

 

[Carmo]

I have come to the conclusion that 90% of the reason I am annoyed with the election result is because of having to put up with right wingers that get yappy and reckon they know s**t cos the election fell their side's way.

10% of the reason is due to the policy set labor had, which i believe would have led to better outcomes for Australia, not being implemented. Including making things better for poorer people, the ones who voted against them and for future people. Though that said, labor's policies were pretty shite as well.

Would it be wrong, if the labor leader said, "right, the country's spoken, lib policies is what you want, lib policies is what you'll get". "We're not going to be obstructional in the senate, at least not for the first half of the term, we're not just going to rubber stamp what they want, we're going to encourage them, extra tax cuts, extra franking credits extra public service cuts (to pay for the tax and franking credits), extra deregulation etc etc, but most of this focussed on country Qld and Northern Tasmania and other areas that voted heavily towards the government". "Only after half way through the term as we start to run into the next election will we start to going back to prosecuting labor principles and policies"?

 

[arrowman]

Its all about myself for now (well sort of) as that seems to be the prevailing attitude in Australia

Voters are always "all about themselves" - if not always, and 100%, at least it's a very large factor. Go to an election with policies that will hurt them, or that don't make sense to them, and you lose. It's not some sort of terrible reflection on society as a whole and in particular it's not some sort of bad attribute exclusive to Coalition voters - that's just a value judgement / prejudice on your part.

Do you think the people who voted ALP were all voting that way selflessly, because they were prepared to make a personal sacrifice for the greater good?

Sometimes people vote against their best interests and this election is a case in point

Again, value judgement and prejudice. Assumption that ALP policies were in everyone's (or the majority's) "best interests" and voters were too dumb to see that.

If it comes down to it, I voted neither for nor against my personal best interests. I don't have a negatively geared property, I am not and am never likely to be affected by the franking credits policy. I just thought they were crap policies (and unfair on other people - see, I was voting in the interests of people other than myself ) and that Bill Shorten was not fit to be PM.

There's a lot of "people who agree with me / vote the same way good/smart, people who disagree bad/selfish/stupid" which is no sensible way to analyse election results. And I'm pretty sure the ALP strategists won't be thinking that way - well maybe except for Doug Cameron

 

[Bicks]

Voters are always "all about themselves" - if not always, and 100%, at least it's a very large factor. Go to an election with policies that will hurt them, or that don't make sense to them, and you lose. It's not some sort of terrible reflection on society as a whole and in particular it's not some sort of bad attribute exclusive to Coalition voters - that's just a value judgement / prejudice on your part.

Do you think the people who voted ALP were all voting that way selflessly, because they were prepared to make a personal sacrifice for the greater good?



Again, value judgement and prejudice. Assumption that ALP policies were in everyone's (or the majority's) "best interests" and voters were too dumb to see that.

Spot on!

 

[Carmo]

But sorry that’s so wrong. You have just formed an opinion of why we voted for the Coalition and why swinging voters chose not to vote Labor.

On one hand you talk about the vulnerable and then support a climate policy that would have hurt them financially that Labor couldn’t or wouldn’t release the cost, there’s a reason for that.

You can talk about saving the planet but you know that Australia going ahead of the rest of the world would not impact on the planets climate, we wouldn’t be saving anything.

That’s a large reason why they didn’t get in, he compared the cost of his policy to someone giving up 10 Big Macs a day FFS.

Can you track down some articles for me saying delaying action on climate change will be cheaper? I haven't seen many along those lines.

 

[Deaneus!]

Wandering around the streets of Melbourne on this unseasonably warm Sunday

LOL, hope she gets used to it.

She's very right about a lot of the things she said... but i also think she's very wrong about others.

 

[Carmo]

Voters are always "all about themselves" - if not always, and 100%, at least it's a very large factor. Go to an election with policies that will hurt them, or that don't make sense to them, and you lose. It's not some sort of terrible reflection on society as a whole and in particular it's not some sort of bad attribute exclusive to Coalition voters - that's just a value judgement / prejudice on your part.

Do you think the people who voted ALP were all voting that way selflessly, because they were prepared to make a personal sacrifice for the greater good?



Again, value judgement and prejudice. Assumption that ALP policies were in everyone's (or the majority's) "best interests" and voters were too dumb to see that.

I was willing to vote for things that made me personally worse off at least financially, Kirky claims he was, you claim you were. So why are you arguing its a fait accompli that everyone will vote for themselves?

 

[Carmo]

Also, why is anyone arguing voters vote rationally? I thought that was debunked ages ago. Its highly probable voters werent voting in a rational sense. So its quite likely they were voting on the irrational, ie what's worse for themselves. Voters typically vote on identity. In my area of the world a heap of people who were in the lowest paid half of the population voted libs because they see themselves as hard working people, which is correct, they are for sure, especially considering the pay they're on, but they see libs as the party for hard working people to get ahead, which is incorrect, they're for the wealthy to get ahead and the hard workers to get put in a worse position.

 

[Carmo]

Good article.
Several posters on this thread should take heed but probably won't.



https://www.smh.com.au/federal-elec...=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1558384750
I'm young, I voted Liberal and I am not a bigot

Haha, hilarious. Everything that's wrong in this scene captured in a beautiful little post. Poetry in motion.

 

[arrowman]

I was willing to vote for things that made me personally worse off at least financially, Kirky claims he was, you claim you were. So why are you arguing its a fait accompli that everyone will vote for themselves?

I didn't claim I was willing to vote for things that made me personally worse off (and I've edited my post to say that in fact, the ALP's policies would not have directly impacted me in a negative way). I will say I WOULD be willing to vote for policies that may impact me negatively, if I believed they were sensible/rational and I could see their broader benefit. (Although of course there's a limit to that ) I'd like to think I'm reasonably rational, but also with human frailty

I don't argue that it's a "fait accompli" that people will vote in their own best interests, just that it's pretty darned obvious that that is a major factor, and it's not some sort of, as I said, terrible reflection on society as a whole, or Coalition voters in particular.

You can't put up policies that will make large number of people worse off, expect them to vote for you, and then criticise them for being selfish and uncaring when they don't.

 

[Bicks]

Also, why is anyone arguing voters vote rationally? I thought that was debunked ages ago. Its highly probable voters werent voting in a rational sense. So its quite likely they were voting on the irrational, ie what's worse for themselves. Voters typically vote on identity. In my area of the world a heap of people who were in the lowest paid half of the population voted libs because they see themselves as hard working people, which is correct, they are for sure, especially considering the pay they're on, but they see libs as the party for hard working people to get ahead, which is incorrect, they're for the wealthy to get ahead and the hard workers to get put in a worse position.

That's the trouble with people like you...you just can't get it through your heads that not all people see the world through your eyes.

You know what's really irrational, you considering your views are the only rational ones and everyone that differs is irrational.

You are not the "oracle" when it comes to how or why people vote the way they do....far from it.

 

[arrowman]

Its highly probable voters werent voting in a rational sense. So its quite likely they were voting on the irrational, ie what's worse for themselves.

You only think that is "probable" and "likely" because you, personally, believe the ALP's policies were (a) in everyone's best interests and (b) sensible and palatable.

You might believe that, but it doesn't make anyone who disagrees with you / voted the other way "irrational".

Again - it would be a big mistake on the ALP's part to assume the reason they lost the election was voter "irrationality".

 

[Elite Crow]

Can you track down some articles for me saying delaying action on climate change will be cheaper? I haven't seen many along those lines.

You have google if you want to look for silly questions