Political Discussion

[Elite Crow]

are there details out of this review anywhere?

No idea, but here's a tweet about it:


Also more Bill:

 

[DD#23]

just interested in the findings/justification of it - so now all the cafes who were paying 5 people double time and half on Sunday are now going to put 10 on? Or will they be open for 12 hours on Sunday instead of 6? Are there going to be extra weekday shifts for new Sunday employees? Or will they have to share them out between the people already working weekdays? Or will businesses avoid changing their practices and just pocket the difference?

On the surface it sounds like a lot of people will get shafted and underemployment is bad enough already, but interested to know more about the positives they're predicting before I make a call on it.

 

[Bicks]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/busin...k=78c25a03f0514327ae88ed312faa0f91-1487840311

SOUTH Australian-born bathroom fixture company Caroma will close its Norwood factory tomorrow two days after Coca-Cola announced it will end manufacturing in SA.

Production at Caroma’s Magill Rd plant, where the company began life in 1941, will wind up tomorrow with the remaining 14 staff walking out the door.

It comes as the State Government and Coca-Cola Amatil today brokered a $4000 support package for each of the 180 workers who will lose their job from the closure of CC Amatil’s manufacturing plants at Thebarton and in the Riverland.

The company has outsourced manufacturing of its products to Malaysia, China and Europe.

Mr Salt said the company would maintain sales and distribution facilities in SA and will develop a concept centre and sales office, which is due to open in Norwood in August.

Mr Salt said while manufacturing has ceased at Norwood, GWA’s commitment to the Australian market and local presence in Adelaide remained absolutely firm.

The company said all affected employees at the Norwood site have received their full redundancy entitlements and assistance in obtaining new work through a “comprehensive”outplacement program.

 

[Bicks]

 

[Bicks]

just interested in the findings/justification of it - so now all the cafes who were paying 5 people double time and half on Sunday are now going to put 10 on? Or will they be open for 12 hours on Sunday instead of 6? Are there going to be extra weekday shifts for new Sunday employees? Or will they have to share them out between the people already working weekdays? Or will businesses avoid changing their practices and just pocket the difference?

On the surface it sounds like a lot of people will get shafted and underemployment is bad enough already, but interested to know more about the positives they're predicting before I make a call on it.

This from the LP press release...

It is an inconvenient truth for the Labor Party that in 2013 Bill Shorten as Workplace Relations Minister amended the Fair Work Act to specifically require the Fair Work Commission to review penalty rates as part of the four yearly review process.

Today’s decision by the Commission to adjust penalty rates is therefore a direct result of the review process put in place by Bill Shorten.

Any suggestion by Bill Shorten and the Labor Party that they do not accept this decision is highly hypocritical. Bill Shorten needs to explain why he instigated a wide-ranging review of penalty rates if does not support a change in penalty rates.

Bill Shorten is responsible for establishing the framework that has led to today’s decision. He cannot now escape responsibility for the outcome of this process.

The Turnbull Government’s position has been consistent and clear – the setting of penalty rates are a matter for the independent Fair Work Commission to determine, not Government. The Government has no plans to change the way penalty rates are set.
There is only one man in Parliament who has a history of directly reducing penalty rates and that is Bill Shorten. When he was leader of the Australian Workers Union, Mr Shorten was responsible for numerous agreements which reduced or removed penalty rates, including for some of Australia’s lowest paid workers.

The Labor Party is desperate to shift responsibility for today’s decision, however it is a transparent effort to distract attention away from the fact that its own leader was the architect of this review.

 

[DD#23]

This from the LP press release...

It is an inconvenient truth for the Labor Party that in 2013 Bill Shorten as Workplace Relations Minister amended the Fair Work Act to specifically require the Fair Work Commission to review penalty rates as part of the four yearly review process.

Today’s decision by the Commission to adjust penalty rates is therefore a direct result of the review process put in place by Bill Shorten.

Any suggestion by Bill Shorten and the Labor Party that they do not accept this decision is highly hypocritical. Bill Shorten needs to explain why he instigated a wide-ranging review of penalty rates if does not support a change in penalty rates.

Bill Shorten is responsible for establishing the framework that has led to today’s decision. He cannot now escape responsibility for the outcome of this process.

The Turnbull Government’s position has been consistent and clear – the setting of penalty rates are a matter for the independent Fair Work Commission to determine, not Government. The Government has no plans to change the way penalty rates are set.

look, my interest has nothing to do with Liberal and Labor trying to skewer each other, I want to know what the "direct results of the review process" were.

if it was the obvious course of action given the findings lets see them, if there are a number of great reasons for it great, but like I said my first impression is its hard to see the net positive.

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

just interested in the findings/justification of it - so now all the cafes who were paying 5 people double time and half on Sunday are now going to put 10 on? Or will they be open for 12 hours on Sunday instead of 6? Are there going to be extra weekday shifts for new Sunday employees? Or will they have to share them out between the people already working weekdays? Or will businesses avoid changing their practices and just pocket the difference?

On the surface it sounds like a lot of people will get shafted and underemployment is bad enough already, but interested to know more about the positives they're predicting before I make a call on it.

More like those businesses won't go bankrupt.

Also you ever been shopping in Rundle Mall on a Sunday and tried to get served? I swear JB HiFi has about 3 staff on a Sunday compared to the 13 they normally have.

 

[DD#23]

More like those businesses won't go bankrupt.

Also you ever been shopping in Rundle Mall on a Sunday and tried to get served? I swear JB HiFi has about 3 staff on a Sunday compared to the 13 they normally have.

well sure, if this is the case no problem. All I'm saying is lets see the findings.

EDIT: and retail is one thing, but I don't think I've been to a good cafe yet that's not doing a roaring trade on a Sunday. Apples and oranges I would have thought, which is why I think its interesting that taking the penalty rates away sounds like its going to be applied across the board.

 

[Bicks]

well sure, if this is the case no problem. All I'm saying is lets see the findings.

Findings not announced publically by the looks as yet, available at this link in coming days.

http://www.fairwork.gov.au/about-us...-news/changes-to-penalty-rates-in-some-awards

 

[DD#23]

Findings not announced publically by the looks as yet, available at this link in coming days.

http://www.fairwork.gov.au/about-us...-news/changes-to-penalty-rates-in-some-awards

cheers

 

[Bicks]

This article from 2015...
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...k=78c25a03f0514327ae88ed312faa0f91-1487843500

DID you see the union marches this week? Let’s be honest: penalty rates are under threat. By this time next year, 500,000 people could be working the same hours for less. This is because of Bill Shorten, not Tony Abbott. If union leaders were honest, instead of marching the streets ranting about Abbott, they would have marched people up to Shorten’s office and demanded his resignation instead. This year, the Fair Work Commission will hear applications from employer groups for the reduction of penalty rates across several sectors. The only reason the FWC will be holding these hearings is because Shorten amended the Fair Work Act and required them to do so. At the time, the initiative was sold as protecting penalty rates. In 2013, in the second reading for the Fair Work Amendment Bill 2013, Shorten said: “Our bill makes it clear that this Labor government believes in the value and utility of penalty rates by reflecting the government’s position that work at hours which are not family friendly is fairly remunerated. This is done by amending the modern awards’ objective to ensure that the Fair Work Commission, in carrying out its role, must take into account the need to provide additional remuneration for employees working outside normal hours, such as employees working overtime or on weekends.” These are weasel words if ever I have heard them. They say the opposite of what the amendment actually does. If Shorten really wanted penalty rates protected, he would never have told the Fair Work Commission to review them. Yet he did. I wonder

 

[DD#23]

"This year, the Fair Work Commission will hear applications from employer groups for the reduction of penalty rates across several sectors."

geeze, I wonder what they're going to say?

 

[Bicks]

"This year, the Fair Work Commission will hear applications from employer groups for the reduction of penalty rates across several sectors."

geeze, I wonder what they're going to say?

You missed the bit where it was Bill Shorten that set the Fair Work review up on 4 yearly basis in 2013...it's now 4 years on.........

And let's not forget it was the ALP that set up the Fair Work Commission and the majority of Commissioners on the bench come from Union/Industrial backgrounds and few from Employer backgrounds AFAIK.

https://www.fwc.gov.au/about-us/members-panels/list-commission-members

 

[Bicks]

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/s...residence-allowance-perk-20170222-guj5qo.html

 

[DD#23]

You missed the bit where it was Bill Shorten that set the Fair Work review up on 4 yearly basis in 2013...it's now 4 years on.........

And let's not forget it was the ALP that set up the Fair Work Commission and the majority of Commissioners on the bench come from Union/Industrial backgrounds and few from Employer backgrounds AFAIK.

https://www.fwc.gov.au/about-us/members-panels/list-commission-members

haven't I made myself clear? I don't care who comes up with the ideas, I just want good, effective, and fair decisions being made.

if it was Shorten's idea and now he's complaining about the outcome he's an idiot but that's irrelevant. If a whole lot of business representatives went to the government and got to say they want to pay less wages I want to know who came out to represent the other side in the debate.

in the US for example several states have raised their minimum wage significantly and its had a terrific effect on their economies. Cutting penalty rates is not too different to lowering the minimum wage at the end of the week.

 

[Bicks]

Liar Liar pants on fire..

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

well sure, if this is the case no problem. All I'm saying is lets see the findings.

EDIT: and retail is one thing, but I don't think I've been to a good cafe yet that's not doing a roaring trade on a Sunday. Apples and oranges I would have thought, which is why I think its interesting that taking the penalty rates away sounds like its going to be applied across the board.

Those cafes doing a roaring trade would have barely broke even.

 

[Elite Crow]

So Bill said last year he would accept the umpires decision, he forgot to add "unless I don't like it"

 

[Elite Crow]

And Tony Abbott "* off" you selfish has been

 

[Vader]

just interested in the findings/justification of it - so now all the cafes who were paying 5 people double time and half on Sunday are now going to put 10 on? Or will they be open for 12 hours on Sunday instead of 6? Are there going to be extra weekday shifts for new Sunday employees? Or will they have to share them out between the people already working weekdays? Or will businesses avoid changing their practices and just pocket the difference?

On the surface it sounds like a lot of people will get shafted and underemployment is bad enough already, but interested to know more about the positives they're predicting before I make a call on it.

Also begs the question of where these additional customers are going to come from..

If one cafe decides to open on a Sunday, surely they're just taking customers away from another cafe which was already open on a Sunday? For every new employee created at the newly open cafe, there must be one lost at the previously open cafe. Zero sum game.

 

[Elite Crow]

Also begs the question of where these additional customers are going to come from..

If one cafe decides to open on a Sunday, surely they're just taking customers away from another cafe which was already open on a Sunday? For every new employee created at the newly open cafe, there must be one lost at the previously open cafe. Zero sum game.

So Vader knows more than an inquiry that ran for a couple of years

 

[Slippery Pete]

And Tony Abbott "**** off" you selfish has been

Has Kristof been hacking your account lately?

Whatever you think about Tony Abbott, what he's saying about the party is 100% right.

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

Is Bill ever going to be questioned about how he runs the ALP?

The party is mud at the moment and it's been him behind every flop, from Rudd, to Julia, back to Rudd. His fingerprints on everything.

Now we have a very unpopular PM who has a spring in his step because even hes not as disliked as Bill.

Bill. Seriously. He's a dill.

Plibersek. Albanese. Bowen. That one that looks like Andrew Gaze. They'd all be better leaders and probably lead the poles.

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

Also begs the question of where these additional customers are going to come from..

If one cafe decides to open on a Sunday, surely they're just taking customers away from another cafe which was already open on a Sunday? For every new employee created at the newly open cafe, there must be one lost at the previously open cafe. Zero sum game.

It really isn't.

 

[Elite Crow]

Has Kristof been hacking your account lately?

Whatever you think about Tony Abbott, what he's saying about the party is 100% right.

He's doing it because he wants to get back in as leader, he is looking after himself.

When leader he leaned plenty left, he's a selfish hypocrite.