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brucetiki said:
Libs on track to get 74, plus Katter is 75. The Libs will get another independent to jump on board to form government.
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Even if they do get back in, they won't be able to get anything through the Senate. Somewhat ironic, given that this was the entire point of calling a DD election.

I think we'll be back at the polls again inside of 12 months.
 

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CrowsB4hoes said:
Why not? It's only a rare thing where the government controls the senate.
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Because the Abbott and Turnbull governments have been uniquely incompetent when it comes to negotiating with the minority senators. As far as they're concerned, it's their way or the highway. That doesn't work very well when you only control 30 of 76 votes.

They don't seem to understand that the Senate is supposed to act as a "house of review", not a rubber stamp for whatever the majority party in the House of Representatives wants to do. Most previous PMs understood this, whether it was Howard negotiating with the Democrats to get the GST passed, or Labor negotiating Gonski. I don't think it's a partisan thing, I think it's more a matter of the personalities involved. Whatever the case, the current batch of Liberals are really, really bad at working with the minority groups in order to get their legislation passed.

Turnbull's inability to get legislation through the senate was the main reason for him calling a DD election. Now he's ended up with fewer Liberal senators (30, down from 33) and more minority senators, many of them hostile to him. He's kicked a massive own-goal. It's an unmitigated disaster for him.
 
Vader said:
Because the Abbott and Turnbull governments have been uniquely incompetent when it comes to negotiating with the minority senators. As far as they're concerned, it's their way or the highway. That doesn't work very well when you only control 30 of 76 votes.

They don't seem to understand that the Senate is supposed to act as a "house of review", not a rubber stamp for whatever the majority party in the House of Representatives wants to do. Most previous PMs understood this, whether it was Howard negotiating with the Democrats to get the GST passed, or Labor negotiating Gonski. I don't think it's a partisan thing, I think it's more a matter of the personalities involved. Whatever the case, the current batch of Liberals are really, really bad at working with the minority groups in order to get their legislation passed.

Turnbull's inability to get legislation through the senate was the main reason for him calling a DD election. Now he's ended up with fewer Liberal senators (30, down from 33) and more minority senators, many of them hostile to him. He's kicked a massive own-goal. It's an unmitigated disaster for him.
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I think it's too early to make the call on Turnbull. He's a successful businessman first and foremost so I would back his negotiation skills.

I don't see the DD as being a last resort because he couldn't get legislation through. It was all part of the big plan. Not that it turned out the way he would have hoped, but if it wasn't the construction Union thingo, it would have been something else.
 
CrowsB4hoes said:
I think it's too early to make the call on Turnbull. He's a successful businessman first and foremost so I would back his negotiation skills.

I don't see the DD as being a last resort because he couldn't get legislation through. It was all part of the big plan. Not that it turned out the way he would have hoped, but if it wasn't the construction Union thingo, it would have been something else.
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They've all had DD triggers, very few of them ever used them. Turnbull used his because he couldn't get a lot of the stuff he wanted through the senate, not because of the construction union thing (which is no more likely to pass now than it was before).

Here's what the cross-bench senators have to say about the Turnbull/Abbott governments attempts at negotiation:
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/fed...bulls-negotiation-skills-20160706-gpzt3z.html
 
Vader said:
They've all had DD triggers, very few of them ever used them. Turnbull used his because he couldn't get a lot of the stuff he wanted through the senate, not because of the construction union thing (which is no more likely to pass now than it was before).

Here's what the cross-bench senators have to say about the Turnbull/Abbott governments attempts at negotiation:
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/fed...bulls-negotiation-skills-20160706-gpzt3z.html
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Doesn't really mean anything though does it. Shorten was never PM so never had to properly negotiate with them when it counted.

It's like saying the guy you played poker against for matchsticks was a nicer guy than the one you played against for money.

Turnbull clearly didn't like the make up of the Senate and I think he misread the public sentiment around this.

He still has to deal with loonies like Hanson, Lambie and Nile. But stuff will get through I'm positive on that.
 
CrowsB4hoes said:
Doesn't really mean anything though does it. Shorten was never PM so never had to properly negotiate with them when it counted.

It's like saying the guy you played poker against for matchsticks was a nicer guy than the one you played against for money.

Turnbull clearly didn't like the make up of the Senate and I think he misread the public sentiment around this.

He still has to deal with loonies like Hanson, Lambie and Nile. But stuff will get through I'm positive on that.
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The reality is that 90% of all legislation passes with the support of both major parties. It's that last 10%, the stuff which is usually ideologically driven, which they struggle to get through. Unfortunately, that's often the 10% which is most important to the parties involved.

Getting the Liberals' ideologically driven legislation (e.g. the construction union bill) passed just got a whole lot harder for them.
 
CrowsB4hoes said:
Doesn't really mean anything though does it. Shorten was never PM so never had to properly negotiate with them when it counted.

It's like saying the guy you played poker against for matchsticks was a nicer guy than the one you played against for money.

Turnbull clearly didn't like the make up of the Senate and I think he misread the public sentiment around this.

He still has to deal with loonies like Hanson, Lambie and Nile. But stuff will get through I'm positive on that.
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Historically, most PMs HAVE been good at that. Most politics is negotiation.

Except this generation of Libs have been terrible. Abbott was a shocker and had no ability to actually lead when not in opposition and Turnbull alienated many senators by continuing the arrogant hardline, and cow towing to the extreme right.
 

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Kristof said:
Historically, most PMs HAVE been good at that. Most politics is negotiation.

Except this generation of Libs have been terrible. Abbott was a shocker and had no ability to actually lead when not in opposition and Turnbull alienated many senators by continuing the arrogant hardline, and cow towing to the extreme right.
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Are you seriously suggesting this "generation" of Labor leaders have been any better than their Liberal counterparts??

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Bicks said:
Are you seriously suggesting this "generation" of Labor leaders have been any better than their Liberal counterparts??

gXnKJ3.gif
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When it comes to negotiating with the minor parties, yes. In terms of governing the country.. no. I don't think either party has done a good job of running the country over the last 10 years, but Labor are/were definitely better at negotiating/dealing with the minor parties and independents.
 
Vader said:
When it comes to negotiating with the minor parties, yes. In terms of governing the country.. no. I don't think either party has done a good job of running the country over the last 10 years, but Labor are/were definitely better at negotiating/dealing with the minor parties and independents.
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Thats because they give them what they want no matter the consequence. Thats how Julia's "There will be no carbon tax" nailed her. She had to negotiate with the Greens who demanded it and the consequence was she lost her job.
 
Elite Crow said:
Thats because they give them what they want no matter the consequence. Thats how Julia's "There will be no carbon tax" nailed her. She had to negotiate with the Greens who demanded it and the consequence was she lost her job.
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Gotta commend Malcolm for shoring up agreements with Wilkie and McGowan so quickly.

Gives you hope that there might be some semblance of negotiation this parliament.
 
Hank93 said:
Gotta commend Malcolm for shoring up agreements with Wilkie and McGowan so quickly.

Gives you hope that there might be some semblance of negotiation this parliament.
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It's the Senate that's going to be the issue
 
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