List Mgmt. Re-Signing Jake Lever

[Ian Dunross]

John Butcher looked excellent to begin with before he famously became a complete spud.

I'm not suggesting Keath will become a spud, but to suggest that he is effectively a best 22 lock after one okay game is just ridiculous

Fair comment on the second sentence.

The difference with Butcher is that he took some great pack marks and kicked straight

Keath showed football smarts in the air, on the body and at ground level

But yeah, early days

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I need to take notice of all the posters that say the club should sign Lever and the Gov, regardless of the cost.
The reason I need to take notice of these supporters is that, if we do keep both players by having to pay them what other clubs are prepared to pay for them, I will want to name them when they'll complain that the club was negligent/useless in not attracting a good RFA or trade for a good midfield.

Is it beyond the realms of possibility that a club could re-sign two of its good players and also trade in a good player?

 

[StonesThrow]

Is it beyond the realms of possibility that a club could re-sign two of its good players and also trade in a good player?

Not for a Vic club it seems. Adelaide simply has a problem attracting good players in the first place. That means we're going to have to pay well over. We got lucky with betts due to Carlton's incompetence.

When is the last time we lured a sought after A grade player?

 

[crowsup]

Is it beyond the realms of possibility that a club could re-sign two of its good players and also trade in a good player?

Not at all! But if having to pay the players what some here demand, were to stop us from attaining a good player (specifically the mid we're after),
what would be your reaction?
If the reaction were to be:- well, at least we kept the players we wanted, nothing would /should be said.
What I expect is that the same posters will come out and abuse the club for their 'perceived' incompetence.

 

[mattymac]

List management and coaches are usually kept separate. Pyke would have his input on what he wants, but at the end of the day Burton, Reid and Ogilvie make the decisions.

Isn't Roo the head of list management?

 

[mattymac]

Keath has poise. He's a natural defender. For mine he will pass Hartigan pretty quickly

 

[Sanders]

TBH I would rather spend $750 -800k+ on a prime mid than a third defender.

If he can get that coin elsewhere good luck to him. The team that pays that for such a player wont win a flag....ie Richmond with Rance.


And not fussed if Gov leaves. He is a massive passenger in our system.

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*. It's not trolling when you come from a low base

 

[Sanders]

Talia gets paid $800K and he is better than Talia.

That's just dumb

 

[Sanders]

If we try to be fair to everyone then we end up being fair to no one

Exactly!

You end up giving people what they want not what they deserve or have earnt.

Never decouple from actual worth to spare someone's feelings

 

[Sanders]

"Lever isn't that good"

Yeah he is.

Sure and we play with a round ball in a triangle park

 

[Sanders]

I can tell that from seeing him for 5 minutes

Nothing. Literally nothing in your posting history oh this board supports that

 

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

For the limited games he has played this year, and the fact that he has only been playing AFL again for 2 years I would think the same as you. So Hugh might not want to sign a long term contract at this point due to that. If he signs a one or two year contract and he turns into one of our best mids he could then re-sign for a longer period for maube 600k.
Or some other club like Freo or WC that is desperate for a mid like him might be prepared to go all out and offer him a 4 year deal at 600k now.
Its going to be interesting. I wonder how many clubs are into his ear.

Doi

He does it once or twice a game. And yes has great hands

But does nothing for the rest of the game.

His best games have been when one of Tex or Jenkins or even Lynch is out.

At the start of the year I was hoping Gov would become more of a mid, like Greenwood has. It won't happen.


I would love to keep both guys. But can understand why our club may be offering less compared to other clubs who desperately want these guys.


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im really torn with McGovern. He does some awesome things, but I still haven't seen him really tear a game apart. That said, this is only his second season playing AFL and not many players, let alone key forwards will dominate a game early in their careers.

 

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

It may be but 850k for a third tall is insane. The Boyd trade shows that the dogs have a few things to learn in list mgt. Don't get me wrong I want lever to stay but I also want players to stay for success and that means making some sacrifices.

And yet he won them a premiership, so you'd struggle to find a Bulldogs supporter that doesn't call that trade a big win.

 

[SydCrow]

Put Gov at FF and he would flourish. He's cramped for room ATM.

 

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

The myth you believe is that once a footballers career is over, the big bucks are too. That is pure BS.
Lever going would show he values money over possible premiership success, thats fine but in a job like a footbalker where you career is ultimately about winning premierships, i would have thought we are as good a chance as any team for that to happen.

Below average AFL players are earning $200k+. Average ones are earning $400k+.

Let me know what industry pays that sort of money as I want to join!

Once football is over most players will take up careers paying considerably less than that. They probably won't have to start at the bottom, but they won't be anywhere near the top.

Yes, some footballers will get high paying media and coaching roles once their careers are over, but that is like maybe 5% of all footballers (and usually only the ones that were in the best handful of players in their team and played 10+ years).

 

[hey shorty]

Put Gov at FF and he would flourish. He's cramped for room ATM.

He gets the 4th defender currently.

He's good, but for his career development he's better off staying here.

 

[Red mist]

Put Gov at FF and he would flourish. He's cramped for room ATM.

Maybe we are just happy to play him in the role we want him to play. Fits well. Don't think he's cramped. He got to contests on Friday night but he didn't time his leaping well. And spilled a few as well.

 

[SydCrow]

Maybe we are just happy to play him in the role we want him to play. Fits well. Don't think he's cramped. He got to contests on Friday night but he didn't time his leaping well. And spilled a few as well.

Seems to me he can't use his pace and leap to full effect because Tex and Jerka get in the way. One on one inside 50 he would be tough to contain. Freo would love him.

 

[Red mist]

Seems to me he can't use his pace and leap to full effect because Tex and Jerka get in the way. One on one inside 50 he would be tough to contain. Freo would love him.

I saw it more that defenders were aware of him and blocked his run at it more than being in the way of Tex and JJ. Being a key post at Freo he'd get double teamed and be less effective imo.

 

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

Oh really didn't Talia sign a 5 year deal at 600k pa 2 years ago?

Lever is very good but im not sure you can say he is better than Talia just yet. Diffferent players with different strengths and weaknesses.

Yep, Lever takes a lot of intercept marks, but I haven't seen Talia repeatedly smashed one-on-one by a player like Charlie Curnow.

 

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

I imagine we knew we'd be in a fight to keep Lever and McGovern this season. Perhaps didn't realise just how much it would cost (especially Lever). And no one could have predicted just how quickly Greenwood's star would rise. Given that it is probably getting tighter for dollars than we expected I can see us giving several players the Henderson/Lyons treatment, even if they are quite handy having on the list at the moment

Contracted until end 2017
Andy Otten - extreme lowball that forces him to look at options
Cameron Ellis-Yolmen - delist
Dean Gore - delist
Harrison Wigg - extreme lowball that forces him to look at options (if anyone will have him)
Jake Kelly - extreme lowball. He might be 'collateral damage' in us trying to keep Lever/McGovern/Greenwood
Kyle Cheney - delist/trade
Riley Knight - Lyons treatment. Low value trade.
Tom Doedee - one year deal on minimum or traded

Unknown
Curtley Hampton - traded
Harry Dear - one year deal on minimum
Paul Seedsman - traded
Troy Menzel - contracted? Can see him being traded even if under contract

Otten's contract will depend on whether Lever is staying or going. We would be silly to offer him a lowball contract if we know Lever is going unless we're convinced that Doedee will definitely be our 3rd tall and Keath will be fighting for a KPD spot.

I also disagree we'll lowball Knight. He looks like he'll develop into something.

 

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

No way I'm paying $850k out of a $12m salary cap to Lever.

I would begrudgingly part with $650k and I'm thinking about walking at $700k - and that's for a 5 year contract.

As others have said, $850k for a 3rd tall is crazy. Even if he develops into a second tall over the next few years, it's a big chunk of money tied up in a part of the ground where it's probably the easiest area to find passable AFL quality replacements. That kind of money is better deployed on a quality mid in my mind.

I'd pay bigger dollars for him for a 5 year deal. I don't think I'd agree to big dollars for a 2 year deal though as he'd either want $1m/season at the end of that deal or would be walking out the door.

 

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

He is very good at his role.

Does his role demand the money he wants and/or another club may pay?

Would you prefer Richmond's list profile (who has such a player as one of their highest paid) or ours?

Which player makes us a better team. Lever, Gov or Greenwood.

My vote is Greenwood.

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Greenwood also seems like he would be the cheapest of the 3 to keep.

 

[jenny61_99]

2 X 1ST ROUNDERS OR PRE-SEASON DRAFT.

They don't have first rounders as far as the eye can see, do they?

 

[WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot]

You guys have short memories. Lever is a gun. Born leader, courageous. Will dominate the comp. Will be a mistake to not pay him. Just get rid of some deadwood depth that is costing us. You don't underpay your guns. He isn't asking for a million a year. Pay the man.

He's a 3rd year player, third tall who is potentially wanting $850k/year. That's a lot when you could have Otten in that role for half that money (or less) and put that towards getting a Kelly or Martin in the team.

So, it comes down to whether you would rather have:

Option A - Otten and Kelly/Martin/some other A-grade mid
Option B - Lever and Mackay

I'd prefer Option A as I think we end up benefiting more by having the mid over Mackay instead of Lever over Otten.