Richmond - the time has come

[Dr Tigris]

The squad is essentially the same as made 3 finals in a row. So actually a lot of talent, and fairly young still.

The 2016 game plan sucked and revealed some deep seated problems. Hopefully learning

If the game plan changed and a few really good players were bought in (trades and guys that were unfit got fit and in form) there could be a massive turnaround. The club seems to have recognized that the current coaching group had problems. The faith in Dimma in 'interesting'.

If Dion Prestia can provide another very good inside mid + then it may free up Cotch and Dusty to tear it up. If Yaz and Houli get fit then run and carry follows - + they free up Vlastuin. And if the young guys come on then there is almost a different set of capabilities at the club.

That many if's usually don't come true. But it is targeted issues that need improvement. And for players we need contested ball winners and leaders to transform our ability to control the ball. Having a couple of guys just doesn't cut it in modern football.

 

[YorshireSwan]

The squad is essentially the same as made 3 finals in a row. So actually a lot of talent, and fairly young still.

The 2016 game plan sucked and revealed some deep seated problems. Hopefully learning

If the game plan changed and a few really good players were bought in (trades and guys that were unfit got fit and in form) there could be a massive turnaround. The club seems to have recognized that the current coaching group had problems. The faith in Dimma in 'interesting'.

If Dion Prestia can provide another very good inside mid + then it may free up Cotch and Dusty to tear it up. If Yaz and Houli get fit then run and carry follows - + they free up Vlastuin. And if the young guys come on then there is almost a different set of capabilities at the club.

That many if's usually don't come true. But it is targeted issues that need improvement. And for players we need contested ball winners and leaders to transform our ability to control the ball. Having a couple of guys just doesn't cut it in modern football.

This is exactly Richmond's problem, with the exception of probably North and maybe Port every other club above them this year has improved or regenerated their list to move forward whilst Richmond has not! Is Sydney's squad essentially the same as the one that made 3 finals series in a row? Is Hawthorn's squad the same that won 3 premierships in a row?
Richmond's list is stagnant, your elite (Riewoldt, Martin & Rance) has peaked and will not improve whilst your core group of mid-younger players has failed to develop forward and arguably in some cases have even gone backwards. Richmond's trading in of 'experienced' players has been deplorable and to the detriment of your list profile, and lastly your drafting has also left a lot to be desired considering some of the talent that was overlooked.
But apparently this is the fault of 5 assistant coaches ....

 

[telsor]

The squad is essentially the same as made 3 finals in a row. So actually a lot of talent, and fairly young still.

The 2016 game plan sucked and revealed some deep seated problems. Hopefully learning

If the game plan changed and a few really good players were bought in (trades and guys that were unfit got fit and in form) there could be a massive turnaround. The club seems to have recognized that the current coaching group had problems. The faith in Dimma in 'interesting'.

If Dion Prestia can provide another very good inside mid + then it may free up Cotch and Dusty to tear it up. If Yaz and Houli get fit then run and carry follows - + they free up Vlastuin. And if the young guys come on then there is almost a different set of capabilities at the club.

That many if's usually don't come true. But it is targeted issues that need improvement. And for players we need contested ball winners and leaders to transform our ability to control the ball. Having a couple of guys just doesn't cut it in modern football.

I'm starting to think this year was all pretty much 'as planned'.

After 3 finals campaigns, they decided they just didn't have the cattle.

After missing on Treloar, and Yarran looking unlikely to contribute much this year (so plan A, recruit more talent had failed), they decided to concentrate on playing the kids and try recruiting again in 12 months, hopefully from a stronger place due to some of those kids stepping up.

So give the coach a contract extention so he has the confidence to go from the start with playing one or two kids each week who wouldn't get a game purely on merit (and towards the end, it was 6 or 7), instead of pushing Maric back, give Hampson a 'secure' gig as 1st ruck and see how he goes, same with Chaplin/Astbury, and 'just coincidentally' secure a far better pick.

 

[Dr Tigris]

This is exactly Richmond's problem, with the exception of probably North and maybe Port every other club above them this year has improved or regenerated their list to move forward whilst Richmond has not! Is Sydney's squad essentially the same as the one that made 3 finals series in a row? Is Hawthorn's squad the same that won 3 premierships in a row?
Richmond's list is stagnant, your elite (Riewoldt, Martin & Rance) has peaked and will not improve whilst your core group of mid-younger players has failed to develop forward and arguably in some cases have even gone backwards. Richmond's trading in of 'experienced' players has been deplorable and to the detriment of your list profile, and lastly your drafting has also left a lot to be desired considering some of the talent that was overlooked.
But apparently this is the fault of 5 assistant coaches ....

See Telsor's post.

Plus, I would argue that Buddy aside the Hawks have pretty much the same squad as the last few years, as with Sydney.

In 2016 the tigers have 'found' a number of god young players that can fill some of the huge list holes. Hopefully these guys have their development fast tracked and can come out good in 2017. 2016 was a train wreck of a year. The sort of official explanation from the coaching team is that with the serious injuries/health issues of Yarran, Houli, MacIntosh we basically had little run and carry and so an attacking game plan fell apart. I can buy that-ish. What it clearly shows is that the tigers list had far too few players capable of carrying the ball and delivering it with any class. And alongside that the quality inside mids at Tigerland were very small in number. There is hope that this can be fixed by recruiting Prestia and the run and carry guys releasing Vlastuin. What this would mean is that the 2017 squad would look very different than the 2016 squad. Significantly increased inside and outside depth. Play and attacking game plan and maybe you look at a different team effectively.

That the squad was developed with such a small group of quality inside and run and carry seems amazing! But it happened. Lots of good role players, that can be stopped by teams that worked out the RFC game plan. 2016 they recognized that the old plan wouldn't work, and screwed up changing it. So when you and others argue that it is all death and disaster you miss the forest for the trees. If only Corey Ellis, Menadue and Rioli come on for 2017 we have a much better team. That is regeneration from within. The problem is that this only addresses part of what is required to have a contending team. Recruiting a few key players goes a long way to addressing the other problems.

Not saying the future is all rosy, but 2016 might just be the year that got the tiger train on track.

 

[YorshireSwan]

See Telsor's post.

Plus, I would argue that Buddy aside the Hawks have pretty much the same squad as the last few years, as with Sydney.

In 2016 the tigers have 'found' a number of god young players that can fill some of the huge list holes. Hopefully these guys have their development fast tracked and can come out good in 2017. 2016 was a train wreck of a year. The sort of official explanation from the coaching team is that with the serious injuries/health issues of Yarran, Houli, MacIntosh we basically had little run and carry and so an attacking game plan fell apart. I can buy that-ish. What it clearly shows is that the tigers list had far too few players capable of carrying the ball and delivering it with any class. And alongside that the quality inside mids at Tigerland were very small in number. There is hope that this can be fixed by recruiting Prestia and the run and carry guys releasing Vlastuin. What this would mean is that the 2017 squad would look very different than the 2016 squad. Significantly increased inside and outside depth. Play and attacking game plan and maybe you look at a different team effectively.

That the squad was developed with such a small group of quality inside and run and carry seems amazing! But it happened. Lots of good role players, that can be stopped by teams that worked out the RFC game plan. 2016 they recognized that the old plan wouldn't work, and screwed up changing it. So when you and others argue that it is all death and disaster you miss the forest for the trees. If only Corey Ellis, Menadue and Rioli come on for 2017 we have a much better team. That is regeneration from within. The problem is that this only addresses part of what is required to have a contending team. Recruiting a few key players goes a long way to addressing the other problems.

Not saying the future is all rosy, but 2016 might just be the year that got the tiger train on track.

The problem you have got is that you are solely looking at it from a Richmond point of view, all of your 'if only's' don't only conveniently apply to Richmond. Every other club does not stand still, you do realise that Melbourne, Collingwood and St Kilda who are in front of you have their own 'Ellis, Menadue and Rioli's' who if they come on for 2017 they will have a much better team ... therefore Richmond will still be behind them!
Also you are absolutely kidding if you think that this years Sydney team is pretty much the same as the last few years finals making teams ...

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

Didnt see the list until now.
What I think is are you really that stupid?
Essendon has better kids? Wow no way! Is that from all the top picks they got?
The last time we had a pick as good as #5 was in 2009.
We beat Hawks, Cats, North, Eagles. Not surprisingly considering we haven't been near the bottom for a while and our best pick that would be in that age bracket was #9.

Oh come on, the Bombers have stacks better and more promising kids then Richmond, if you are thinking not, then like your coach your delusional.

 

[Snooza 100]

Richmond has had the year from hell, there is no 2 ways about it. We have been a pathetic rabble. We've only played 2 and half very good games this year. Absolutely unacceptable.

In my opinion, there are a number of reasons for that.

Early in the season injuries to key players with pace who can run and carry Deledio, Yarran, McIntosh, Houli, Edwards.

Stagnation from some players we expected to take the next step B Ellis, Vlaustin, Griffiths, Vickery, Lennon (although injured)...and Edwards early injury affected him, but when he came back, had a horrid season.

Young players they've invested in who aren't up to it. McBean, Elton.

The recruiting of absolute battlers in Townsend and Moore...

And most importantly, a game plan that failed to cope with the new rules this year. s**t Coach? Hmm - jury is out, I've always supported Dimma, but he literally has 10 rounds in 2017 to save his job.

So where does that leave us for 2017? Who the hell knows.

I am of the belief that we are nowhere near as bad as this year has played out. But I'm not confident we will rebound back in the 8. I'm sure it's possible - but everything would need to go right for the Tigers. Unlike this year, where everything went wrong.

So we probably get Prestia, he will help. If Yarran plays, that should help. But it's not the answer.

I think Hardwick's greatest challenge will be fundamentally changing the way the team plays. Cause in my opinion, he is currently ruining the career of some gun footballers...

Honestly, I have no idea what will happen in 2017 for the Tigers, but it's pretty cut and dry. Have an impressive first half of the season and challenge for the 8. Or Dimma is sacked and the club will go through that rebuild everyone is calling for right now.

Underestimation to say it is a monumentally huge off season for the Tigers.

You r spot on, love your work..

 

[Snooza 100]

This is exactly Richmond's problem, with the exception of probably North and maybe Port every other club above them this year has improved or regenerated their list to move forward whilst Richmond has not! Is Sydney's squad essentially the same as the one that made 3 finals series in a row? Is Hawthorn's squad the same that won 3 premierships in a row?
Richmond's list is stagnant, your elite (Riewoldt, Martin & Rance) has peaked and will not improve whilst your core group of mid-younger players has failed to develop forward and arguably in some cases have even gone backwards. Richmond's trading in of 'experienced' players has been deplorable and to the detriment of your list profile, and lastly your drafting has also left a lot to be desired considering some of the talent that was overlooked.
But apparently this is the fault of 5 assistant coaches ....

No it is the coaches fault, because they are suppose to develop and guide the young players on our list, our most important person is a devolopment coach..

 

[carnthedons]

No? I never said that. There were 4 teams I said we beat, Essendon was not on that list. In fact I'm pretty sure I said Essendon has better kids.
Serious question. Can you read?

Umm why do I care what picks they have had since 2010? Its 23 and under isn't it? Picks in 2010 are passed that age and therefor are irrelevant.
Bellis is better than Kavanagh so check, Daniher was father son and would have gone way before Richmonds if he wasn't, Zach Merrett was clearly a fantastic pickup from later in the draft, Cellis and Langford are too early to tell.
Facts are essendon best kids are picks #5, #6, F/S and then second rounder Merrett. 3 of those were higher than Richmond has had access to in the last 5 years.

We haven't had the luxury of Father/Son pickups and Academy like some other clubs.

While you've not had f/s (I believe there's on next year), this post highlights the issue. It's not all about top end picks but given your 5 elite players were top 20 picks I get the expectation you have that this is the case. I'll use Essendon because obviously I know the list better than other teams and we're not even very good with all our players back:

Fantasia - mid 50s pick
Tipungwuti - rookie and through our VFL team
Gleeson - mid 50s pick
Hartley - 4th rounder
McKenna - Cat B rookie

Older guys
Hibberd - PSD
Hooker - mid 50s pick

Now obviously we've got some high end picks who've been good or likely will be (Hurley, Heppell, Parish, Francis maybe) but would you rather a 20s pick or a mid 20s Chris Yarran?

 

[Dr Whoooooooo]

The squad is essentially the same as made 3 finals in a row. So actually a lot of talent, and fairly young still.

The 2016 game plan sucked and revealed some deep seated problems. Hopefully learning

If the game plan changed and a few really good players were bought in (trades and guys that were unfit got fit and in form) there could be a massive turnaround. The club seems to have recognized that the current coaching group had problems. The faith in Dimma in 'interesting'.

If Dion Prestia can provide another very good inside mid + then it may free up Cotch and Dusty to tear it up. If Yaz and Houli get fit then run and carry follows - + they free up Vlastuin. And if the young guys come on then there is almost a different set of capabilities at the club.

That many if's usually don't come true. But it is targeted issues that need improvement. And for players we need contested ball winners and leaders to transform our ability to control the ball. Having a couple of guys just doesn't cut it in modern football.

You will be fine - couple of passengers have been shown the door both on & off the field. Unfortunately, these things happen in football ... its a cut throat game.

I'm starting to think this year was all pretty much 'as planned'.

After 3 finals campaigns, they decided they just didn't have the cattle.

Not sure "planned" is the correct terminology ... but I reckon your thinking is on the money.

 

[LFTWNG11]

I'm starting to think this year was all pretty much 'as planned'.

LOL

Obviously pacing Yarran for 2018.

 

[Schraderbrau]

so apparently yarran and prestia is the difference b/w Richmond being top 8 and beyond useless :S

 

[BRWB]

Carro is reporting possible recruiting changes. If that means Francis Jackson goes then Tiges have a chance to rebuild.

SEN did analysis of the Tiges recruiting from 10-13 (later too early to assess). Tiges sat at a miserable 24% strike rate and that generously counted Conca as a win. Par was 35%. Only Carlton was worse.

Tiges are no chance till Jackson goes.

 

[Wayne Swan]

Plus, I would argue that Buddy aside the Hawks have pretty much the same squad as the last few years, as with Sydney..........

Gotta hand it to some posters, they don't know too much.

Sydney got pretty much the same team as the last few years eh?

Well in the team that gave the Tiges a jolly good rogering on Saturday we have Marsh rookie debut this year, Papley rookie debut this year, Naismith rookie 2nd game this year, X Richards rookie 2nd game this year, Hewett pick 32 debut this year, Aliir pick 44 debut this year - so yeah, same team although 30% of them are 2016 debutants or played just their 2nd game this year!

Suggest you get out of that tiger suit you wear all the time and actually observe and learn something about other teams!

 

[citizen-erased]

While you've not had f/s (I believe there's on next year), this post highlights the issue. It's not all about top end picks but given your 5 elite players were top 20 picks I get the expectation you have that this is the case. I'll use Essendon because obviously I know the list better than other teams and we're not even very good with all our players back:

Fantasia - mid 50s pick
Tipungwuti - rookie and through our VFL team
Gleeson - mid 50s pick
Hartley - 6th rounder
McKenna - Cat B rookie

Older guys
Hibberd - PSD
Hooker - mid 50s pick

Now obviously we've got some high end picks who've been good or likely will be (Hurley, Heppell, Parish, Francis maybe) but would you rather a 20s pick or a mid 20s Chris Yarran?

Hartley was 6th round.

 

[YorshireSwan]

No it is the coaches fault, because they are suppose to develop and guide the young players on our list, our most important person is a devolopment coach..

You have to recruit players who have the aptitude, skill-set and talent to be developed first.

 

[TiggerMan22]

While you've not had f/s (I believe there's on next year), this post highlights the issue. It's not all about top end picks but given your 5 elite players were top 20 picks I get the expectation you have that this is the case. I'll use Essendon because obviously I know the list better than other teams and we're not even very good with all our players back:

Fantasia - mid 50s pick
Tipungwuti - rookie and through our VFL team
Gleeson - mid 50s pick
Hartley - 4th rounder
McKenna - Cat B rookie

Older guys
Hibberd - PSD
Hooker - mid 50s pick

Now obviously we've got some high end picks who've been good or likely will be (Hurley, Heppell, Parish, Francis maybe) but would you rather a 20s pick or a mid 20s Chris Yarran?

Never said it was all top end, but they clearly are where most top end talent comes from.
We picked Lloyd at #66, Markov at #50, Menadue at #33, short, castagna, miles and Lambert in the rookie draft.
The players you mentioned are good but not even close to elite. That's my point.

 

[TiggerMan22]

Oh come on, the Bombers have stacks better and more promising kids then Richmond, if you are thinking not, then like your coach your delusional.

Pleae learn to read.
My comment was making fun of the obvious point that Essendon had better kids than Richmond.
As pointed out by mentioning the top end picks.
Not hard, kid.

 

[TiggerMan22]

Mate my house mate is a Richmond fan and I have watched every single Richmond game this season!
I respect your opinion and point of view, but with all due respect I am merely offering an unbiased perspective and I don't agree with you.
I'll be more than happy to eat humble pie if they prove me wrong.

So apparently Short has shown nothing?

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

Pleae learn to read.
My comment was making fun of the obvious point that Essendon had better kids than Richmond.
As pointed out by mentioning the top end picks.
Not hard, kid.

Kid? interesting, you still did write wow the Bombers have better kids then us. after that i couldn't see the screen from tears in my eyes from laughter.

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

So apparently Short has shown nothing?

Not really no. has he been nominated for a rising star award?

 

[TiggerMan22]

You're the one who brought up Essendon, saying that your kids are better despite them having all those top picks.

So whose under 23 list is Richmond better than? Simple question if you can answer it.

Lol. No I didnt, go look back at the comment chain.
Also I already answered tbat question. Your inability to comprehend simple sentences is embarrassing.

 

[TiggerMan22]

Not really no. has he been nominated for a rising star award?

Lmfao, thats your argument?
Rising Star nominations? Hahahhahhahahaha.

 

[TiggerMan22]

Kid? interesting, you still did write wow the Bombers have better kids then us. after that i couldn't see the screen from tears in my eyes from laughter.

Whats funny about Essendon having better kids again?
Might want to explain that one. You clearly have a poor sense of humour

 

[Super Hans]

Lol. No I didnt, go look back at the comment chain.
Also I already answered tbat question. Your inability to comprehend simple sentences is embarrassing.

.....

Didnt see the list until now.
What I think is are you really that stupid?
Essendon has better kids? Wow no way! Is that from all the top picks they got?
The last time we had a pick as good as #5 was in 2009.