Preview Round 10, 2023: GWS v St.Kilda - GIANTS Stadium, Sunday 21st May, 4:40PM AEST

[gringo2011]

Shows how ridiculous their rankings system is if he's ahead of Jeremy Cameron

Owens has been a revelation for us, but I'm not sure we want his future as a key forward/ruck. Especially now with King and Caminiti back.

Of course it is, it's a load of s**t. He's been fantastic this year though. His impact has fallen away a bit lately.

 

[True Blue Saint]

Mentioned that Windy should be in already - our midfield is really stagnant and one-paced - lacking in dynamism.

Now with King back there's no excuse not to play Mitchito in the guts more.

But why the hell have we been fixtured for 3 away games in a row - including consecutive interstate trips? Farcical

 

[bird_man]

Mentioned that Windy should be in already - our midfield is really stagnant and one-paced - lacking in dynamism.

Now with King back there's no excuse not to play Mitchito in the guts more.

But why the hell have we been fixtured for 3 away games in a row - including consecutive interstate trips? Farcical

Think the word you are looking for is farcial, but agree

 

[George]

Of course it is, it's a load of s**t. He's been fantastic this year though. His impact has fallen away a bit lately.

I don't quite understand the angst towards ranking systems. If people don't think it's a valid representation of what's happening then it should just be ignored, but also it depends what is actually being measured/how they are developing the rankings.

I could come out and say Max King is the #1 most effective player in the competition for those that wear odd socks. It means nothing.

 

[Plugger35]

Of course it is, it's a load of s**t. He's been fantastic this year though. His impact has fallen away a bit lately.

About the same time I traded him into my Supercoach team, he was running hot before that.

His drop off probably has more to do with our team's drop off though rather than his own form dropping off, if our form picks up so should his form.

With King coming back I expect he will play more midfield now and when he plays forward he could be even more dangerous with less attention on him.

 

[gringo2011]

I don't quite understand the angst towards ranking systems. If people don't think it's a valid representation of what's happening then it should just be ignored, but also it depends what is actually being measured/how they are developing the rankings.

I could come out and say Max King is the #1 most effective player in the competition for those that wear odd socks. It means nothing.

It's a system that has players ranked above par for position. Owens is one that is ranked as a key position forward which is sort of true but isn't. He's playing a kind of KPF high half forward hybrid role so his numbers look unusual for the role. He also wins a lot of contested ball which pushes those stats higher. If they'd classed him as a general forward his data is compared with other players more aligned to where he plays and he probably looks a bit more like his true ranking which is still very good.

It's a bit of fun to get clicks but I think we all know that he's not better than Cameron or Daicos.

 

[Sully111]

I'm happy with how he's going and not worried about how we are playing kids. I think Lyon is playing them and when ready they'll go in. You are comparing the absolute cream of the draft playing on ball in a terrible side playing for a spoon. We are not a similar side and Sheezel is a very rare player that has already been getting numbers as good as Nick Daicos.

Owens will make an impact when he's ready. Having King back should make it more possible to run him on ball or ruck. I don't think he necessarily makes more impact than the players we have on ball and that's really who he has to push out to own a spot. If he rucks he has the opportunity to get hands on the ball like Marshall does and force their hand.

He's ready now

Our midfield hasn't been setting the world on fire. We haven't been playing good footy

Time to pull the trigger

He'll absolutely smash it

 

[Plugger35]

We still need to remember like Redgum that Owens is only 19 so his form might drop off as the season goes on like it does with a lot of young players.

Even if it does he has already shown more improvement than most of us would have expected, he will be a star if that rate of improvement continues.

 

[George]

It's a system that has players ranked above par for position. Owens is one that is ranked as a key position forward which is sort of true but isn't. He's playing a kind of KPF high half forward hybrid role so his numbers look unusual for the role. He also wins a lot of contested ball which pushes those stats higher. If they'd classed him as a general forward his data is compared with other players more aligned to where he plays and he probably looks a bit more like his true ranking which is still very good.

It's a bit of fun to get clicks but I think we all know that he's not better than Cameron or Daicos.

Of course not, so why do we give these things any weight? If the ranking system seems off then I dunno why anyone takes much notice of it. We all know Mitch isn't better than Cameron or Daicos, so chuck the ranking system in the bin and find one that makes more sense.

 

[gringo2011]

He's ready now

Our midfield hasn't been setting the world on fire. We haven't been playing good footy

Time to pull the trigger

He'll absolutely smash it

I guess we'll see soon enough. We don't need him to play forward so there is opportunity. I trust the set up at the moment to maximise players which I haven't for years.

As much as the forum wants to play the kids, we are still in the finals hunt so need to balance performance and development. Owens is going well so not too concerned with throwing players into the midfield unless the coaches think it's needed. It's been a while since I trusted them, but quite enjoying not feeling like the place is doing it's best to self immolate.

I'll leave the stress to you guys.

 

[gringo2011]

Of course not, so why do we give these things any weight? If the ranking system seems off then I dunno why anyone takes much notice of it. We all know Mitch isn't better than Cameron or Daicos, so chuck the ranking system in the bin and find one that makes more sense.

I was just having a bit of fun which is exactly what that system is. A bit of an amusing statistical anomaly manipulated to get people to look.

 

[George]

I was just having a bit of fun which is exactly what that system is. A bit of an amusing statistical anomaly manipulated to get people to look.

Nah I know I'm just saying in general. I reckon SuperCoach rankings are more accurate.

 

[Premium]

We still need to remember like Redgum that Owens is only 19 so his form might drop off as the season goes on like it does with a lot of young players.

Even if it does he has already shown more improvement than most of us would have expected, he will be a star if that rate of improvement continues.

19 yr old kid given the job as back up ruckman is just amazing - knowing how hard that job is - just ask Josh Bruce - he hated it.
He is a top line midfielder and atm he is filling roles because no one else can do it - the kids a star.
Could Steele or Ross do what this kid is doing at his age - no way in the world.
The sooner he is thrust into the midfield the better.

 

[Premium]

He's high impact forward and easily better than Marshall in the ruck. I'm pretty sure that they have a plan to move him and Phillipou into the guts in the future. We have one position mids in the side, it makes it hard to play them elsewhere and we don't want to lose ground so have to keep feeding kids in rather than throwing them in.

Gringo - better than Marshall in the ruck - he is good but expecting a 19yr old to to the bullocking work that Marshall does for 80% of the game - I don't think so.
Owens to me is Dangerfield / Fyfe good - would you let them ruck when you know they have more impact as a midfielder.

 

[Sully111]

I guess we'll see soon enough. We don't need him to play forward so there is opportunity. I trust the set up at the moment to maximise players which I haven't for years.

As much as the forum wants to play the kids, we are still in the finals hunt so need to balance performance and development. Owens is going well so not too concerned with throwing players into the midfield unless the coaches think it's needed. It's been a while since I trusted them, but quite enjoying not feeling like the place is doing it's best to self immolate.

I'll leave the stress to you guys.

Mate I’m talking about one player. Not the “kids”. I’m talking about Mitch Owens

I don’t care about ranking systems etc. or how good other young guys are.

I think Mitch is a gun. I want us to maximise his effectiveness for the team. I believe that’s in the midfield.

I brought up sheezel because he’s another player that’s been having a great season, but was more damaging for them today when given the opportunity in a more damaging position

I don’t believe Steele Crouch Ross is a premiership midfield

It’s time for a change. Mitch is a bull. He’s wasted in our forward line

 

[gringo2011]

Gringo - better than Marshall in the ruck - he is good but expecting a 19yr old to to the bullocking work that Marshall does for 80% of the game - I don't think so.
Owens to me is Dangerfield / Fyfe good - would you let them ruck when you know they have more impact as a midfielder.

His hit outs land in our hands or at least direct our way. Marshall is an okay tap ruck. Owens tap work is excellent. Watch next time he has a run in there.

 

[gringo2011]

Mate I’m talking about one player. Not the “kids”. I’m talking about Mitch Owens

I don’t care about ranking systems etc. or how good other young guys are.

I think Mitch is a gun. I want us to maximise his effectiveness for the team. I believe that’s in the midfield.

I brought up sheezel because he’s another player that’s been having a great season, but was more damaging for them today when given the opportunity in a more damaging position

I don’t believe Steele Crouch Ross is a premiership midfield

It’s time for a change. Mitch is a bull. He’s wasted in our forward line

Happy for you to fly his flag. I'm not that invested in getting upset about where he's playing. Love watching him play regardless.

 

[Premium]

His hit outs land in our hands or at least direct our way. Marshall is an okay tap ruck. Owens tap work is excellent. Watch next time he has a run in there.

The kid is good at every thing he does but expecting a 19yr old to be a battering ram against usually tall usually limited in talent hulking tall is a big ask for the kid.
Fyfe / Dangerfield / Pendlebery can ruck but do you risk him against some big log.
Our midfield as you know has been our weak point and having a kid who is a contested beast could be the point of difference we need.
Having Marshall , Owens , Sinclair and Gresham or Windhager would be a breathe of fresh air to what we have been serving up.

They have to try something different - we can't just continue rolling out the midfield that at best just breaks even - we need to dominate the midfield - Ross and a underperforming Steele and Clark are not getting it done.

Time to make some tough call's - and Ross Lyon can make those calls - if current midfielders can't play anywhere else bad luck , they will get a kick a Sandringham.

 

[Premium]

Happy for you to fly his flag. I'm not that invested in getting upset about where he's playing. Love watching him play regardless.

People don't want to see a 2m Max King thrown into the ruck in case he gets damaged , yet we are willing to throw a 19yr kid who is under sized to ruck.
Ok he is filling a void but now with King back and Hammer in the team there is now reason he is not given more time in the midfield and I'm sure he will.
Owens attack on the football I have not seen since Fyfe or Dangerfield but they were not as good as Owens until they were at least 22.

 

[gringo2011]

The kid is good at every thing he does but expecting a 19yr old to be a battering ram against usually tall usually limited in talent hulking tall is a big ask for the kid.
Fyfe / Dangerfield / Pendlebery can ruck but do you risk him against some big log.
Our midfield as you know has been our weak point and having a kid who is a contested beast could be the point of difference we need.
Having Marshall , Owens , Sinclair and Gresham or Windhager would be a breathe of fresh air to what we have been serving up.

They have to try something different - we can't just continue rolling out the midfield that at best just breaks even - we need to dominate the midfield - Ross and a underperforming Steele and Clark are not getting it done.

Time to make some tough call's - and Ross Lyon can make those calls - if current midfielders can't play anywhere else bad luck , they will get a kick a Sandringham.

Well you can roll out anything I it works. I'm not saying you throw Owens into every ruck duel. Just chop out. We need to tighten up a lot more, not just the mids. Work rate has dropped right off lately. I think blaming it on the mids is simplistic. Steele isn't impacting as much which exposes our lack of depth but expecting Owens to carry it is going to lead to disappointment IMO. If he goes in he'll probably have less impact than the underwhelming guys now but it's an investment, so you give him runs not full time.

 

[gringo2011]

People don't want to see a 2m Max King thrown into the ruck in case he gets damaged , yet we are willing to throw a 19yr kid who is under sized to ruck.
Ok he is filling a void but now with King back and Hammer in the team there is now reason he is not given more time in the midfield and I'm sure he will.
Owens attack on the football I have not seen since Fyfe or Dangerfield but they were not as good as Owens until they were at least 22.

He definitely isn't needed as much forward so maybe he gets more time. I wouldn't bust your boiler over it. It will happen at some point. Just enjoy the ride.

 

[Premium]

Well you can roll out anything I it works. I'm not saying you throw Owens into every ruck duel. Just chop out. We need to tighten up a lot more, not just the mids. Work rate has dropped right off lately. I think blaming it on the mids is simplistic. Steele isn't impacting as much which exposes our lack of depth but expecting Owens to carry it is going to lead to disappointment IMO. If he goes in he'll probably have less impact than the underwhelming guys now but it's an investment, so you give him runs not full time.

Try something , do anything - at the moment we are stagnate.

 

[gringo2011]

Try something , do anything - at the moment we are stagnate.

Had one horror match and a few underwhelming ones. Not too concerned yet. If we come out and smash GWS and the Hawks we start to look pretty good again all of a sudden. A few sides are starting to drop or lift. We might as well see what plays out before panicking and swinging the axe.

 

[Premium]

Had one horror match and a few underwhelming ones. Not too concerned yet. If we come out and smash GWS and the Hawks we start to look pretty good again all of a sudden. A few sides are starting to drop or lift. We might as well see what plays out before panicking and swinging the axe.

To me playing these teams that will most likely not be in the 8 we should be looking at what other players can offer , why play the same midfield that will most probably have good games against the weaker teams but once we hit Melb or the Lions they get torn to bits.
ATM we are rolling with the same midfield Richo and Ratten rolled out.
Time to find something to ignite the team - even Sinclair to become a permanent mid - just do something different.

Lyon has already done it with the forward line , finding a gem in Hammer and seeing Owens emerge as a very good player and giving a players a chance to show what they have like Byrne --- but it's time to throw something into the engine room.

 

[Nutsngum]

His hit outs land in our hands or at least direct our way. Marshall is an okay tap ruck. Owens tap work is excellent. Watch next time he has a run in there.

Yeah I do and most of them he doesnt even get a hand to the ball as he is severely undersized for a ruck.