Preview Round 2, 2019: Essendon v St.Kilda - Marvel Stadium, Saturday 30th March, 4:35PM AEDT

[Mikka84]

We used to stand in a room and yell at each other.

So nothing has changed at all?

 

[StCicatriz]

Been wondering what would be the best for Clark's development in the long run.

He played some good footy playing off the half back line last year and I have no doubt he'd be well suited to that role at the moment and he's played a lot of his footy in that position the the tac cup. A lot of top midfielders have down apprenticeships on the flanks at either end of the ground.

Or do we just focus on him becoming a pure midfielder and if that means spending more time in the VFL then so be it?

i think him going back to the VFL and really cementing himself as a midfielder is the best thing for him. similar to ross. have no issues with Coff doing the same thing.

having said that we shouldn't be waiting years for them to be a regular best 22.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Watch the replay, the GC player hits Long hard in the chest, he responds with less force after jolting him and giving the guy a fright first. The umpire was just being campaigner or he's a racist.

All I’m saying is let’s not give them any extra excuse. It’s often just the response that the umpire sees.

I think it’s drawing a pretty long ( pun intended) bow to put it down to racism however.

 

[StCicatriz]

i think the coaches have rightfully identified that the way to defeat essendon is to grid them down in the center. you want to absolutely ground and pound them. they struggle with the inside contested side. so you want size and height running through there. so i have no issues with retaining dunstan and bringing in acres.

if the bombers get their run back and play rebound footy, we'll be done for. we need them to sweat every single possession in close. we need to them be worrying about who's coming in at the stoppage. who's coming from the side and behind.

i would have kept long in though. as he's one who really puts some physical pressure on. i worry about us going out without him. lonie would have been a candidate here but he's finding the footy and better than that he's connecting with his disposal. we can't afford to lose that!

i worry about the lack of legs against essendon.

to win this game we are going to big performances from some of the quicker outside types who can run. they really need to wear their oppo down. we know what we will get from stuv, ross, dunstan, steele. but we need the likes of newnes, mckenzie, parker to really get in their face. having long in that group would have been handy.

billings and sinclair will have to improve their defencive side. need a big game!

get a win guys. get a god damn ******* win. ground and pound!

 

[TheEnsign]

I don't believe you can judge Dunstan, or any midfielder purely on the amount of disposals that they get in a game

Dunstan had 7 tackles last week and he must be doing all the defensive and offensive things that the coaches ask of him, otherwise he would not be getting a game. There is no doubt that he needs to use the ball a lot better, but to judge him only on the amount of possessions he is getting is not the full picture.

Agree with this. Dunstan had the second most tackles (behind Steele, of course) and in terms of others playing midfield minutes - Gresh had 2 tackles, Billings 1 and Seb had none. Also Dunstan put that block on that allowed Seb to waltz through the midfield and put that bullet on Bruce's chest. For all his lack of grace Dunstan did play his role last week; which is to protect and give space to the mids with classier disposal.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

With dial up, you'd load a message and come back after dinner to see a response.

Dial up was fine.
Then the privileged ones ( randomly decided by who had overhead power lines to pin the fibers too ) got fast internet.
Because some people had fast internet the powers that be then decided it would be good to include 100 photographs and a video on the web page you opened to try to find out the footy scores, and the dial up just shat itself and told you to come back later.

They are still doing it, we are chewing up internet as fast as we can to watch tv now.

 

[cooperrules]

In know its been done ad nauseum.

But...

Dunstan vs clark

Dunstan

Tough
Good tackler
No skill
Cant handball
Cant kick
Has no goal sense whatsoever
Is an under 20 possie full time mid
Half of those butchered
No creativity
Cant run both ways
No marking ability

Clarke

Hes tough
Tougher then he looks for his size
Skilled
Both sides
Creativity
Class
Composure
Goal sense
Marking threat
Prob cant run both ways at this stage
Ok tackler

Who would you prefer in the team?

 

[StCicatriz]

In know its been done ad nauseum.

But...

Dunstan vs clark

Dunstan

Tough
Good tackler
No skill
Cant handball
Cant kick
Has no goal sense whatsoever
Is an under 20 possie full time mid
Half of those butchered
No creativity
Cant run both ways
No marking ability

Clarke

Hes tough
Tougher then he looks for his size
Skilled
Both sides
Creativity
Class
Composure
Goal sense
Marking threat
Prob cant run both ways at this stage
Ok tackler

Who would you prefer in the team?

easily dunstan, right now. i'm no fan of dunstan either.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

i think the coaches have rightfully identified that the way to defeat essendon is to grid them down in the center. you want to absolutely ground and pound them. they struggle with the inside contested side. so you want size and height running through there. so i have no issues with retaining dunstan and bringing in acres.

if the bombers get their run back and play rebound footy, we'll be done for. we need them to sweat every single possession in close. we need to them be worrying about who's coming in at the stoppage. who's coming from the side and behind.

i would have kept long in through. as he's one who really puts some physical pressure on. i worry about us going out without him.

i worry about the lack of legs against essendon.

to win this game we are going to big performances from some of the quicker outside types who can run. they really need to wear their oppo down. we know what we will get from stuv, ross, dunstan, steele. but we need the likes of newnes, mckenzie, parker to really get in their face. having long in that group would have been handy.

billings and sinclair will have to improve their defencive side. need a big game!

get a win guy. get a god damn ******* win. ground and pound!

They weren't running much last week. I know they've had a big rev up, but if they aren't fit enough , and blow up, they won't keep up even if they really really want to.

 

[Joffaboy]

In know its been done ad nauseum.

But...

Dunstan vs clark

Dunstan

Tough
Good tackler
No skill
Cant handball
Cant kick
Has no goal sense whatsoever
Is an under 20 possie full time mid
Half of those butchered
No creativity
Cant run both ways
No marking ability

Clarke

Hes tough
Tougher then he looks for his size
Skilled
Both sides
Creativity
Class
Composure
Goal sense
Marking threat
Prob cant run both ways at this stage
Ok tackler

Who would you prefer in the team?

That is emotive clap trap.

Clark is not Dunstan's replacement ATM.

May well be, but currently, if you want an inside pig, Clark is not it.

 

[StCicatriz]

That is emotive clap trap.

Clark is not Dunstan's replacement ATM.

May well be, but currently, if you want an inside pig, Clark is not it.

this

clark was struggling to run out games during the JLT with minutes forward and outside. throwing him inside as that inside beast, is not only going to be detrimental to his development, but its also going to be at the sides expense.

he needs time in the VFL. Sheed was much more suited to the inside stuff and he still spent significant time in the WAFL. there's no shame in it.

Clark needs to find his legs thats all.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Straight from richo's mouth:

We like Longy’s aggression. Every now and again, perhaps he doesn’t quite get that right but by and large that’s a real positive for us. This is more a balance of the team; we just think that with Parker and Lonie, Kent and our want to just be a little bit bigger in front of the ball.
“Longy’s a little bit unlucky there, we’ve had a conversation about what he needs to do to not be the unlucky one going forward, but he’s a terrific player, he’s just committed to us for a while and we’ve committed to him.

“We know he’s going to be a beauty, but he’s only a young fella. He’s only just started his AFL career and coping with non-selection is part of the journey and I’m sure he’ll deal with that really strongly.”

Think in order for us to improve long term, we just gotta hope that Long replaces Lonie/Kent in that player mix due to his effort and discipline, cuz he has more talent wise IMHO

I have no problem with that explanation.

 

[boydie]

But doesnt that mean he is selecting players whom he thinks are better?

Do you and others really want them to select team that are not the best available?

That is incredible

I think the team being selected at present is Richo's best available, more a try and win now sort of a team, not a win later down the track.
Do I think the 22 selected can take us to the finals this year or next, nope.
We aren't going to be a finals team with names like Lonie, Dunstan, Savage running around every week, just my opinion.

So if we aint looking good come round 9ish id would prefer we load games into kids, accept some thumpings, and hopefully we see a couple of them grow and develop by end of year and look to 2020 with an additional Top 2 or 3 pick also.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

In know its been done ad nauseum.

But...

Dunstan vs clark

Dunstan

Tough
Good tackler
No skill
Cant handball
Cant kick
Has no goal sense whatsoever
Is an under 20 possie full time mid
Half of those butchered
No creativity
Cant run both ways
No marking ability

Clarke

Hes tough
Tougher then he looks for his size
Skilled
Both sides
Creativity
Class
Composure
Goal sense
Marking threat
Prob cant run both ways at this stage
Ok tackler

Who would you prefer in the team?

Last year Dunstan had 6 games of 16 where he didn't get 20 possessions.
He had 5 where he got more than 25.
He averaged 21 and a half.

But as stated its CONTESTED possessions he's there for.
I wish we'd picked Crouch in that draft, because he's better, but Dunstan is what we have.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Your 100% right Joffaboy , Richo selecting who he thinks is most likely to win games now.

Unfortunatly, some of us (including me) think that this is to the detriment of our long term development and chances of rising up the ladder.
For this year, lets hope we are wrong and this team starts heading up the ladder in the right direction. (trying to keep it positive)

Well that’s the point of the season, surely?
To win games.

It’s not like we haven’t already played debutants, and I’m sure the other young guys will also get plenty of opportunities. 25 games between the Cs last season showed exactly that.

We have to play for the now, as well as bring in the youth for the future. It’s a fine balance.

But at the end of the day, we play to win, and to move up the ladder, and if that means Richo isn’t sacked well so be it - finishing near the bottom may please those who want Richo gone, but it does nothing for the future prospects of the club. We might as well just tank like the Dees did...and how long did they sit at the bottom of the ladder for?
Talk about a culture killer.

 

[bird_man]

i think him going back to the VFL and really cementing himself as a midfielder is the best thing for him. similar to ross. have no issues with Coff doing the same thing.

having said that we shouldn't be waiting years for them to be a regular best 22.

Not sold on trying to turn Coff into a full time mid though. I like what Sydney have done with Callum Mills. I think Coff could be an elite player off the back flank.

 

[boydie]

Well that’s the point of the season, surely?
To win games.

It’s not like we haven’t already played debutants, and I’m sure the other young guys will also get plenty of opportunities. 25 games between the Cs last season showed exactly that.

We have to play for the now, as well as bring in the youth for the future. It’s a fine balance.

But at the end of the day, we play to win, and to move up the ladder, and if that means Richo isn’t sacked well so be it - finishing near the bottom may please those who want Richo gone, but it does nothing for the future prospects of the club. We might as well just tank like the Dees did...and how long did they sit at the bottom of the ladder for?
Talk about a culture killer.

Your right it is a fine balance, playing for now and bringing in youth for future.

I just think we have erred on the side of playing for now for the last couple years and its got us to position we now find ourselves in, being not that great and not having the 22 to make the finals, just my opinion.

There comes a time when you need to bite bullet and blood kids (more than we have done already, noting we have given them some games)

 

[VDS66]

Your 100% right Joffaboy , Richo selecting who he thinks is most likely to win games now.

Unfortunatly, some of us (including me) think that this is to the detriment of our long term development and chances of rising up the ladder.
For this year, lets hope we are wrong and this team starts heading up the ladder in the right direction. (trying to keep it positive)

In the flipside we take your option...

Pick players who may not be ready and not worry about winning games.

We lose more games and finish bottom 4 again.

End of season, players leave and no one wants to come.

Richo sacked. Yay.

Members drop off and the cycle goes on.

Saying that selections revolve purely on Richo is just wrong, and what of is make or break for him this year, I reckon the club wants to win games rather than have an excuse to sack the coach.

Pick your best available and win as many games as we can.

Let the kids dominate at vfl and earn their spot.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Not sold on trying to turn Coff into a full time mid though. I like what Sydney have done with Callum Mills. I think Coff could be an elite player off the back flank.

When we had or thought we had Robbo we probably didn't necessarily need Coff to play HBF (as they are pretty similar types), but now that Robbo is out for the year and prolly won't play again, we may need Coff to develop there (which I think is likely his best position anyway) more than we need him for the midfield.

In the juniors and early last year for us he looked like he was born to play that "general defender" type role.

 

[boydie]

In the flipside we take your option...

Pick players who may not be ready and not worry about winning games.

We lose more games and finish bottom 4 again.

End of season, players leave and no one wants to come.

Richo sacked. Yay.

Members drop off and the cycle goes on.

Saying that selections revolve purely on Richo is just wrong, and what of is make or break for him this year, I reckon the club wants to win games rather than have an excuse to sack the coach.

Pick your best available and win as many games as we can.

Let the kids dominate at vfl and earn their spot.

or the flipside, we do what we have been doing all of last year, for the result of a grand total of 4 wins and expect something different to happen.

Albert Einstein: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results

As I said in earlier post, happy for us to go for the win now, but IF, come round 9 or 10ish we are on 1 win, then surely we gotta do something different and give the young ones the reins??

 

[aussierulesrules]

I'm sure we will.

Play to win now (not just for Richo, but for the club as a whole, for memberships, sponsorships, player retention etc) then "play the kids" if the season goes off the rails, or we're clearly out of contention.

 

[Joffaboy]

this

clark was struggling to run out games during the JLT with minutes forward and outside. throwing him inside as that inside beast, is not only going to be detrimental to his development, but its also going to be at the sides expense.

he needs time in the VFL. Sheed was much more suited to the inside stuff and he still spent significant time in the WAFL. there's no shame in it.

Clark needs to find his legs thats all.

True. I reckon in time he can be a great inside distributor. With Hanners fit and Steele by his side, that will be a formidable inside brigade, but not yet.

 

[Joffaboy]

I think the team being selected at present is Richo's best available, more a try and win now sort of a team, not a win later down the track.
Do I think the 22 selected can take us to the finals this year or next, nope.
We aren't going to be a finals team with names like Lonie, Dunstan, Savage running around every week, just my opinion.

So if we aint looking good come round 9ish id would prefer we load games into kids, accept some thumpings, and hopefully we see a couple of them grow and develop by end of year and look to 2020 with an additional Top 2 or 3 pick also.

But that is not the question. It is does the selection committee pick the best team to win.

You can only win the game in front of you. We won last week but made three changes to make us hopefully better.

While we are selecting our best team, Clark and Coffield can get better in the reserves.
It the reason the mature ages have gone past them, learning and playing in state league and maturing.

Players need to earn their place, not be gifted games at the expense of better players on the list and short changing the supporters.

If you want to see these players mature, get down to Sandy. It is worth it.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Your right it is a fine balance, playing for now and bringing in youth for future.

I just think we have erred on the side of playing for now for the last couple years and its got us to position we now find ourselves in, being not that great and not having the 22 to make the finals, just my opinion.

There comes a time when you need to bite bullet and blood kids (more than we have done already, noting we have given them some games)

I did mention the two Cs. We also debuted and played Joyce, Phillips, Battle, Pierce and Marshall last season. So we have bitten the bullet, although maybe not quite as much as some may want. Don’t get me wrong, I am as impatient as anyone to see our young talent played.

Our team was pretty much as inexperienced as GC’s last week. If we play more youngsters together we will be on the receiving end of a few thumpings, and you cannot avoid the bigger picture when that occurs.

That affects club, team and supporter morale ( even the rusted ons were throwing in the towel at the end of last season.) Then you get players like Stuv, Gresh etc wanting to leave.

Stuv doesn’t want to wait for the future. His future is now.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Everybody knows I'm not much of a Dunstan fan. You all know I'm prone to Thursday night melts. It's common knowledge I'm a fan of a two-tall-forward structure.

So, when I say I don't really have a problem with the selections, that might indicate something.

Would I have picked that team, precisely? No. I would have preferred Pierce was given another shot and Marshall went in as a tall-forward/ruck; and that Dunstan's role was played by Ross, with Acres taking Ross' role from last week. But there's a difference between having varying emphases in selection, and fully thinking the selection process is irresponsible. Melts come where we think the latter, where we think the selectors are irresponsible. This is not an irresponsible selection.

I don't necessarily think this makes this a team that WILL win. I don't know that right now, we could. But I think it's a team that COULD win, for sure. And apart from that, I think it's a team that'll make for a ripper of a game, just to watch. I think this'll be a fun match to sit down and enjoy. I'm looking forward to it.