Roast Stkilda in no mans land

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Ducky Tie

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 15, 2011
8,808
19,561
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
If he could kick? He's probably one of the best kicks in our team.

He missed the majority of 2020 and 2021 due to injury.

Perhaps stick to other teams threads given you clearly know nothing about St Kilda.
He's a pretty ordinary kick. He kicks crafty goals, but his field kicking is pretty average. Doesn't mean he isn't a highly damaging player, but he's an ordinary kick.
 

Veer Right

Club Legend
May 11, 2019
2,739
4,768
AFL Club
St Kilda
If he could kick? He's probably one of the best kicks in our team.

He missed the majority of 2020 and 2021 due to injury.

Perhaps stick to other teams threads given you clearly know nothing about St Kilda.

No he's not. It's been a knock on him most of his career his ordinary disposal. Appears better this year however, maybe due to increased fitness?
 

Lavender Bushranger

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 25, 2005
9,239
13,206
Grogansville
AFL Club
Gold Coast
If he could kick? He's probably one of the best kicks in our team.

He missed the majority of 2020 and 2021 due to injury.

Perhaps stick to other teams threads given you clearly know nothing about St Kilda.
What??!

He's an awful kick. Borderline diabolical.

He can snap the odd goal out of his arse, but his footskills are deplorable.


He gets the ball on average the same amount as Seb Ross, with the same amount of Uncontested Posession as him also. So generally speaking, you're not throwing it onto your boot.

Gresham goes at 59% Efficiency! Ross, who isn't a great disposer of the ball himself - goes at 79%!! He's 20% worse than Ross FFS!

He also average over 4 Clangers and 4 Turnovers every week!!



As I said, if/when he learns to kick - he'll be a top 5-10 player in the comp. Right now though, it's holding him back quite significantly.
 

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Rickee

Team Captain
May 23, 2016
599
697
Ballarat
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Port Melbourne; Redan
Your Club is void of value. I am not talking about absence of flags. I am not talking about the many good individuals who have passed through and generally been damaged by the StKilda experience. I am talking about the rotten to the core culture that has cursed this Club.

The sooner it is eviscerated the better.
Does it bother you that much that your club has to shift interstate to survive, but mine didn't?

Our culture isn't perfect but it's hardly "only pretend our Melbourne based history matters to sell faux nostalgia to arrogant people from Bondi who couldn't point out Lake Oval on a map" bad.
 

Rickee

Team Captain
May 23, 2016
599
697
Ballarat
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Port Melbourne; Redan
Love the strawmanning by bringing the Bombers into this, but I'll bite

Imagine claiming Top 4 aspirations but losing to the Pies

Can't wait to see:

Saints V Melbourne
Saints V Geelong
Saints V Brisbane

:thumbsu:
"Claiming top 4 aspirations"?
 

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staffonly

All Australian
Aug 20, 2021
805
817
AFL Club
St Kilda
What??!

He's an awful kick. Borderline diabolical.

He can snap the odd goal out of his arse, but his footskills are deplorable.


He gets the ball on average the same amount as Seb Ross, with the same amount of Uncontested Posession as him also. So generally speaking, you're not throwing it onto your boot.

Gresham goes at 59% Efficiency! Ross, who isn't a great disposer of the ball himself - goes at 79%!! He's 20% worse than Ross FFS!

He also average over 4 Clangers and 4 Turnovers every week!!



As I said, if/when he learns to kick - he'll be a top 5-10 player in the comp. Right now though, it's holding him back quite significantly.

Seb Ross takes safer options. Similar to comparing Magdens disposal to DeGoey.
 

stfan

The Fan in Waiting
Mar 12, 2008
5,245
8,451
Melb
AFL Club
St Kilda
No he's not. It's been a knock on him most of his career his ordinary disposal. Appears better this year however, maybe due to increased fitness?


He is also better as he is not trying to do "incredible" passes as much as he did in previous years. Particularly the across the body field pass that he normally butchered. So his degree of difficulty is less.
 

aussierulesrules

Hall of Famer
Jan 7, 2011
32,244
63,711
Heaven. I mean Victoria.
AFL Club
St Kilda
Gresham’s an awful kick. Borderline diabolical.
Rubbish. He can definitely do bad kicks- especially when he tries to overkick it- or have bad kicking games, but that’s a significant exaggeration.

Especially since he’s much more dual-sided than most and more capable of very creative kicks.

He can snap the odd goal out of his arse, but his footskills are deplorable.
Yeah, all those great goals he’s kicked are just flukes. 🙄

What a stupid and ignorant thing to say.

He also average over 4 Clangers and 4 Turnovers every week!!
Well here is some definitive evidence of your ignorance.

You put a double exclamation point at the end of that statement, as if that proved your point about how bad his kicking is, despite the fact that 4 turnovers/clangers per game is nothing whatsoever to write home about.

He averages 4.3 clangers per game

T Kelly averages 6.3
C Oliver 6.2
B Smith 5.6
T Adams 5.4
J Selwood 5.4
C Petracca 5.3
T Taranto 5.3
M Kennedy 5
A Gaff 5
L Whitfield 4.8
L McDonald 4.8
J Simpkin 4.8
J Viney 4.8
M Rowell 4.7
Crisp 4.5
R Laird 4.5
C Serong 4.5
M Duncan 4.4
S Walsh 4.4
S Bolton 4.3
N Daicos 4.3
Z Merrett 4.3
D Houston 4.3
O Wines 4.2
N Anderson 4.2
X Bailey 4.2
T Miller 4.2
D Parish 4.2
L Parker 4.2
J Steele 4.2

While all of the following average the 4 that you think is so bad:

L Neale
L Shuey
P Cripps
R Sloane
L Franklin
J Lyons
Coniglio
B Dale
T Green
B Keays
E Langdon
Z Williams
C Zurhaar
J Elliott

Turnovers. Gresh as you pointed out with double exclamation points!! averages a whopping 4 per game:

B Smith (WB) 7.8
T Kelly 7.3
T Miller 6.5
N Anderson 6.3
C Oliver 6.2
T Taranto 6.2
J Lyons 6
LDU 5.8
L McDonald 5.8
J Short 5.8
J Dawson 5.5
J Lloyd 5.4
C Petracca 5.3
J Crisp 5.3
N Daicos 5.3
T Boak 5.3
T Greene 5.3
P Cripps 5.2
J Kelly 5.2
J Simpkin 5.2
S Walsh 5.2
J Steele 5.2
D Mundy 5
L Weller 5
A Gaff 5
M Kennedy 4.8
A Brayshaw 4.8
D Rich 4.8
N Blakey 4.7
B Dale 4.7
L Neale 4.7
L Whitfield 4.7
K Amon 4.5
Z Bailey 4.5
D Houston 4.5
S Hurn 4.5
O Wines 4.4
I Smith 4.5
J Dunkley 4.5
E Langdon 4.3
L Parker 4.2

All of them and a bunch of others average more than Jade, who is equal-87th in the league for turnovers per game, averaging 4.

So again, you put his clanger and turnovers numbers with a double exclamation point, as if they were as diabolical as you say his kicking is, yet the numbers above show that he’s right around the same area as most of the other top mids in the game for clangers, and behind a heap of them for turnovers. A LONG way behind some.

So nothing remarkable at all overall and actually very decent from a turnover perspective.
 
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Lavender Bushranger

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 25, 2005
9,239
13,206
Grogansville
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Rubbish. He can definitely do bad kicks- especially when he tries to overkick it- or have bad kicking games, but that’s a significant exaggeration.

Especially since he’s much more dual-sided than most and more capable of very creative kicks.


Yeah, all those great goals he’s kicked are just flukes. 🙄

What a stupid and ignorant thing to say.


Well here is some definitive evidence of your ignorance.

You put a double exclamation point at the end of that statement, as if that proved your point about how bad his kicking is, despite the fact that 4 turnovers/clangers per game is nothing whatsoever to write home about.

He averages 4.3 clangers per game

T Kelly averages 6.3
C Oliver 6.2
B Smith 5.6
T Adams 5.4
J Selwood 5.4
C Petracca 5.3
T Taranto 5.3
M Kennedy 5
A Gaff 5
L Whitfield 4.8
L McDonald 4.8
J Simpkin 4.8
J Viney 4.8
M Rowell 4.7
Crisp 4.5
R Laird 4.5
C Serong 4.5
M Duncan 4.4
S Walsh 4.4
S Bolton 4.3
N Daicos 4.3
Z Merrett 4.3
D Houston 4.3
O Wines 4.2
N Anderson 4.2
X Bailey 4.2
T Miller 4.2
D Parish 4.2
L Parker 4.2
J Steele 4.2

While all of the following average the 4 that you think is so bad:

L Neale
L Shuey
P Cripps
R Sloane
L Franklin
J Lyons
Coniglio
B Dale
T Green
B Keays
E Langdon
Z Williams
C Zurhaar
J Elliott

Turnovers. Gresh as you pointed out with double exclamation points!! averages a whopping 4 per game:

B Smith (WB) 7.8
T Kelly 7.3
T Miller 6.5
N Anderson 6.3
C Oliver 6.2
T Taranto 6.2
J Lyons 6
LDU 5.8
L McDonald 5.8
J Short 5.8
J Dawson 5.5
J Lloyd 5.4
C Petracca 5.3
J Crisp 5.3
N Daicos 5.3
T Boak 5.3
T Greene 5.3
P Cripps 5.2
J Kelly 5.2
J Simpkin 5.2
S Walsh 5.2
J Steele 5.2
D Mundy 5
L Weller 5
A Gaff 5
M Kennedy 4.8
A Brayshaw 4.8
D Rich 4.8
N Blakey 4.7
B Dale 4.7
L Neale 4.7
L Whitfield 4.7
K Amon 4.5
Z Bailey 4.5
D Houston 4.5
S Hurn 4.5
O Wines 4.4
I Smith 4.5
J Dunkley 4.5
E Langdon 4.3
L Parker 4.2

All of them and a bunch of others average more than Jade, who is equal-87th in the league for turnovers per game, averaging 4.

So again, you put his clanger and turnovers numbers with a double exclamation point, as if they were as diabolical as you say his kicking is, yet the numbers above show that he’s right around the same area as most of the other top mids in the game for clangers, and behind a heap of them for turnovers. A LONG way behind some.

So nothing remarkable at all overall and actually very decent from a turnover perspective.


Once you've calmed down, a Clanger and a Turnover is quite significant for a player who can't kick over 40m. Given the way Effective Kicks are measured and the 40m threshold used.

The double exclamation was in relation to the comparison with Ross. Going at 20% less efficiency than Seb Ross and having 4 Clangers and 4 Turnovers each week is very double exclamation worthy, when you spend a good chunk of time playing forward.

Clangers per game for St Kilda
RankNameDisposals per GameTurnovers per Game
1​
8​
8.50​
2
24
4.33
3​
28​
4.17​
3​
27​
4.17​
5​
20​
3.83​


Turnovers per game for St Kilda
RankNameDisposals per GameTurnovers per Game
1​
20​
5.33​
2​
28​
5.17​
3​
17​
4.80​
4​
27​
4.33​
5
24
4.00
 
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mrmonkey

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 3, 2010
8,373
8,458
Melbourne
AFL Club
Melbourne
Saints best footy will trouble any team, Adelaide and North next two rounds so should be 8-3 at the bye, that's a pretty good spot to be in to take on the second half of the year. Play Brisbane and Sydney twice, Carlton and Fremantle in the second half of the year, could be tough but also an opportunity to beat other teams competing for top 4 spots. If saints can get into top 4 you just never know.
 

GeTrain

Senior List
Aug 22, 2019
298
563
AFL Club
St Kilda
Saints best footy will trouble any team, Adelaide and North next two rounds so should be 8-3 at the bye, that's a pretty good spot to be in to take on the second half of the year. Play Brisbane and Sydney twice, Carlton and Fremantle in the second half of the year, could be tough but also an opportunity to beat other teams competing for top 4 spots. If saints can get into top 4 you just never know.
we're dropping one of the games vs Crows & North, it's such a st kilda thing to do.

Jokes aside though, Brisbane should beat us both times, split the games with Sydney. Probably lose to Carlton (tall forwards will kill us) and I'd tip us vs Freo since its in Vic. Also probably lose to Geelong in Geelong
 

mrmonkey

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 3, 2010
8,373
8,458
Melbourne
AFL Club
Melbourne
we're dropping one of the games vs Crows & North, it's such a st kilda thing to do.

Jokes aside though, Brisbane should beat us both times, split the games with Sydney. Probably lose to Carlton (tall forwards will kill us) and I'd tip us vs Freo since its in Vic. Also probably lose to Geelong in Geelong
I think at worst saints will finish second half of the year 6-5 that's 14-8 maybe just missing the 4 but it's a very even comp so it might be enough. Have faith 🙏
 

BigVic

Premiership Player
Sep 7, 2009
3,982
3,004
Bull Creek WA
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Storm, Manchester City, PSG
Won games against Fremantle, Richmond and Geelong in the first rounds of the season. Surprised me after their loss to Collingwood
 

Present Not Past

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 3, 2010
10,863
10,525
Sydney
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
Chicago Cubs
Saints in the worst position not rebuilding or challenging arguably furthest position away from a flag

Their youth is max king and Clark cupboard is bare they struggle to develop their own so they overpay to get others like hill 900k and Hannebery on 700k

They topped up with Frawley and Ryder etc

Where to from here?
OP is looking a bit silly around about now particularly given the youth on display for St Kilda this year.
 

PJays

All Australian
Nov 2, 2020
964
1,171
AFL Club
St Kilda
St Kilda's results in season 2022 will hinge upon the health of their list and most importantly, Marshall and Ryder

The eye test shows why- Marshall and Ryder play ruck, while the other floats forward (about half the time- with the other half on the bench. Both spend, on average, roughly 50/25/25 ruck/forward/bench)

Suddenly you have King, Membrey, plus another quality tall marking target. With Higgins, Gresham, Butler etc roving. If St Kilda's getting half decent delivery happening, that's very hard to stop.

The other advantage is two ruckmen. Tonight during the 3Q, there was 2 taps straight to roving goals. One Marshall, one Ryder. Both times against a #2 ruck option for Geelong.

I crunched some numbers tonight. By my count

  • Ryder and Marshall have played 25 games together since start 2020 when Ryder joined the Saints.
  • Remove the game against Geelong last year when Marshall subbed out early, the scores were roughly level when he subbed out and then Saints lost.
  • Leaves 24 Games.
  • St Kilda is 17-7 in those 24 games. The losses were mostly extremely close - eg 2020- 2 pts vs Bris at Gabba. 3 pts vs Melb. 2 Pts vs North after leading by 6 goals,15 pts vs WC after leading by 8 with 8 mins left
  • In those 24 games, Ryder and Marshall have combined for 41 goals. Despite St Kilda only having one of them in the forward line about 50% of each game.
Structurally, we're a very good team with them both playing. Ryder is a magnificent tap ruck. They both do great work around the ground. They both go forward and kick goals, adding to a forward line which is already pretty potent.

Saints fans better hope they both stay healthy! And the rest of the team. If they do, you just never know. We might be a sneaky chance.
 
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Django

Rookie
Jun 11, 2020
28
56
AFL Club
Richmond
St Kilda's results in season 2022 will hinge upon the health of their list and most importantly, Marshall and Ryder

The eye test shows why- Marshall and Ryder play ruck, while the other floats forward (about half the time- with the other half on the bench. Both spend, on average, roughly 50/25/25 ruck/forward/bench)

Suddenly you have King, Membrey, plus another quality tall marking target. With Higgins, Gresham, Butler etc roving. If St Kilda's getting half decent delivery happening, that's very hard to stop.

The other advantage is two ruckmen. Tonight during the 3Q, there was 2 taps straight to roving goals. One Marshall, one Ryder. Both times against a #2 ruck option for Geelong.

I crunched some numbers tonight. By my count

  • Ryder and Marshall have played 25 games together since start 2020 when Ryder joined the Saints.
  • Remove the game against Geelong last year when Marshall subbed out early, the scores were roughly level when he subbed out and then Saints lost.
  • Leaves 24 Games.
  • St Kilda is 17-7 in those 24 games. The 7 losses were mostly extremely close - eg 2022- 1 pt vs Port in Cairns with Saints kicking 4.18. 2020- 8 pts vs WC after leading by 15 with 8 mins left, 2 pts vs Bris at Gabba. 3 pts vs Melb. 2 Pts vs North after leading by 6 goals.
  • In those 24 games, Ryder and Marshall have combined for 41 goals. Despite St Kilda only having one of them in the forward line about 50% of each game.
Structurally, we're a very good team with them both playing. Ryder is a magnificent tap ruck. They both do great work around the ground. They both go forward and kick goals, adding to a forward line which is already pretty potent.

Saints fans better hope they both stay healthy! And the rest of the team. If they do, you just never know. We might be a sneaky chance.
I think the Saints are building alright. Old mate Ryder is not the answer obviously. If you can cover that loss and still build, then they might be a chance. I never know what to think with the Saints. I've seen some great teams on paper over the years. Never got the job done though. My best mate in high school was a Saints fan. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
 

Atomboy

Premiership Player
Jan 22, 2007
4,145
4,901
Yes
AFL Club
St Kilda
I think the Saints are building alright. Old mate Ryder is not the answer obviously. If you can cover that loss and still build, then they might be a chance. I never know what to think with the Saints. I've seen some great teams on paper over the years. Never got the job done though. My best mate in high school was a Saints fan. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

I never appreciated how good a player Ryder was until he came to the Saints.

Wish he had always played for us.
 

Armitage2Riewoldt

Premium Gold
May 23, 2008
15,701
16,404
Melbourne
AFL Club
St Kilda
I think the Saints are building alright. Old mate Ryder is not the answer obviously. If you can cover that loss and still build, then they might be a chance. I never know what to think with the Saints. I've seen some great teams on paper over the years. Never got the job done though. My best mate in high school was a Saints fan. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Ryder ain’t the answer long term but he’s the answer short term! Fingers crossed we can get another year or two out of him.

But with our recent attempts to get Draper and Xerri and then grabbing Hunter and Campbell (and hayes who was looking a great pick) it’s obvious we need a replacement for him soon. Not that any one’s going to be able to replace him really.
 

MickG88

Team Captain
May 19, 2017
532
644
AFL Club
St Kilda
we're dropping one of the games vs Crows & North, it's such a st kilda thing to do.

Jokes aside though, Brisbane should beat us both times, split the games with Sydney. Probably lose to Carlton (tall forwards will kill us) and I'd tip us vs Freo since its in Vic. Also probably lose to Geelong in Geelong
I would agree about Brisbane beating us twice but their tall stocks have taken a hit so we should be able to maybe snag the win in round 13.
 

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