Roast St Kilda in no mans land

[Ducky Tie]

You can become a contender, you only really need like 3 or 4 top of the line players. King and Steele are the kingpin player, the key is to have the best 12 support players complementing the two. Richmond got 3 flags from having the best support group.

As history has shown, premiership teams do not need superstars allround but having a top of the line synergy and cohesive along with a few top players.

King and Steele is a nice starting point, but there needs to be probably a couple more with them. Richmond had a great support group, but they also did have a quality core. Riewoldt, Martin, Rance, Edwards, Lynch, Grimes, Houli, Cotchin etc have all been AA squad of 40 calibre players. We lack players of that ilk. There are some that could get there (Clark, Gresham, Highmore types), but we need some really solid development from a few.

 

[Chairman Zia]

lol, Hill hasn’t played midfield for half a year….

Stop talking, you are embarrassing yourself

And you spent 850k a season for him, good job.

 

[Chairman Zia]

King and Steele is a nice starting point, but there needs to be probably a couple more with them. Richmond had a great support group, but they also did have a quality core. Riewoldt, Martin, Rance, Edwards, Lynch, Grimes, Houli, Cotchin etc have all been AA squad of 40 calibre players. We lack players of that ilk. There are some that could get there (Clark, Gresham, Highmore types), but we need some really solid development from a few.

Yes, there are an absolute superstars in martin comes once in a generation.

Riewoldt, Rance and Cotchin stepped up to be A grader that made all those around them better causing a cascading effect.

Then there are the smart recruitings like nankervis, prestia, mcintosh, lynch, houli.

 

[DT_35]

And you spent 850k a season for him, good job.

you spent 750k on Polec LOL

 

[Chairman Zia]

you spent spent 850k on Polec LOL

you spend 850k on hill, LOL

 

[pluggeranddoc]

Amazing how supporters of minnow clubs rush to bag one another!
Haven't counted them but reckon North and Freo are bound to be over-represented in this thread!
Having said that, I don't reckon Saints' fans would miss the opportunity to sink the boots in to them if the opportunity presents.

 

[DT_35]

you spend 850k on hill, LOL

850k on an average AFL player

or

750k on a vfl player?

Hmmm

 

[Chairman Zia]

850k on an average AFL player

or

750k on a vfl player?

Hmmm

an afl player not playing is called vfl player, so 850K+ for vfl suits your team just fine.

 

[DT_35]

an afl player not playing is called vfl player, so 850K+ for vfl suits your team just fine.

21 games to Polecs 5

 

[Chairman Zia]

21 games to Polecs 5

polec's 5 probably b.o.g each one.

 

[Ducky Tie]

Yes, there are an absolute superstars in martin comes once in a generation.

Riewoldt, Rance and Cotchin stepped up to be A grader that made all those around them better causing a cascading effect.

Then there are the smart recruitings like nankervis, prestia, mcintosh, lynch, houli.

They built the list well, for sure. Those core four (Riewoldt, Rance, Martin and Cotchin) were playing at a very high level in the years preceding their contending years, so I don't think we have that same base of high end talent. There's definitely an element of other players elevating their game once a team becomes a contender though.

 

[Chairman Zia]

They built the list well, for sure. Those core four (Riewoldt, Rance, Martin and Cotchin) were playing at a very high level in the years preceding their contending years, so I don't think we have that same base of high end talent. There's definitely an element of other players elevating their game once a team becomes a contender though.

People all say martin this martin that but i felt that it was cotchin who really stepped up in 2017 to be the strong leader that he never was before hand. He willed himself to all the contest, he isn't a beast but he got involved in all contest, tagged team with martin superbly and showed his worth as a leader and as an actual player. his deft little hand ball, lateral side step, spin attacks, it was all cotchin who was first into the foray. Martin does the stuff on camera, it's the stuff not seen on camera that really mattered.

Rance was excellent in that he stopped others scoring. But also richmond had a whole team buy in at the start of 2017 to play this forward defensive pressure game because they didn't have many good player at that time. Sometimes dificiencies in the list can make way for revolutionary new starategies.

 

[The Nostradamus]

It's an interesting position we are in. I'm really unsure about it. We'd need a fair to go right to be a contender, particularly the development of a few important young players. As identified earlier, the midfield needs to improve. Steele is an absolutely elite player. He is a top ten player in the competition and is incredibly consistent. After him though, we probably don't have another top 30 midfielder. Crouch and Jones probably fall somewhere in the 30-50 range. Dunstan is workmanlike but is a poor decision maker/kick. I expect he'll leave in the off season.

If we're going to be a contender, we really need another one or two midfielders who are consistent top level mids. Clark and Gresham are probably the two with the most potential. Gresham's only played 14 games over the past two seasons due to injury which is a real concern. Significant period missed where we would have hoped he would develop into a top midfielder. Who knows how he'll come back next year after missing so much footy. Clark has all the offensive weapons needed to be a high class midfielder, so he's probably the one we need to improve next year.

King is probably the key though. His last nine weeks have been really impressive and I'm pretty confident he will be a really high quality player. 50 contested marks in his second season playing. 24 goals in his last nine games. He looks unstoppable when he is on. His kicking has also turned a corner and looks good. If we are going to contend anytime soon, he really needs to be the one to elevate us and make an ok midfield look good.

In the immediate future of next year, I can't see us contending but I could see us getting back into that 6-8 range. Our fixture has been a shocker this year. Double ups against Port Adelaide, Geelong, Sydney, West Coast and Richmond. Assuming we probably finish 11th or 12th, we should get a much better run at it next year. While all teams have injuries, we have been hit pretty hard. We also don't have the depth of top teams to cover those injuries, particularly when Ryder and Marshall were absent earlier in the year. Our reliance on Ryder is concerning, given his age. He makes us a significantly better clearance team and makes the midfielders look much better. They need to find a way to adjust and get used to Marshall as the main ruck. Jones, Gresham, Clark, Marshall and Ryder all missing extended periods of time is something we can't cover well with the depth we have.

With King and Steele to build around, I can see us bouncing back and being a top eight team, but I don't see us contending in the near future unless either a couple of midfielders elevate their game a few levels and/or King becomes a absolutely dominant forward.

Good post that sums the situation

 

[Freomaniac]

you spend 850k on hill, LOL

900 k a year brad hill is on

 

[aussierulesrules]

900 k a year brad hill is on

Ended up coming equal-5th in the B&F (with Crouch), so far from the disaster he was looking like being, and you’d think that the better we get as a team, the more damaging he will become.

Has now finished 1st, 3rd and 5th in best and fairests in the past 5 seasons.

Will almost certainly end up being a loss overall, but you’re not going to win them all.

We’d be very happy with what we’ve gotten from Jones, Ryder, Howard, Crouch, Higgins and Butler, and I imagine wouldn’t hesitate to do all those deals again, if given the opportunity to go back in time and change our minds.

All of those 7 have finished top 8 in one or both of the last two B&F’s, except Higgins, who missed 3 games, yet still kicked 27 goals.

 

[The Unicorn]

Ended up coming equal-5th in the B&F (with Crouch), so far from the disaster he was looking like being, and you’d think that the better we get as a team, the more damaging he will become.

Has now finished 1st, 3rd and 5th in best and fairests in the past 5 seasons.

Will almost certainly end up being a loss overall, but you’re not going to win them all.

We’d be very happy with what we’ve gotten from Jones, Ryder, Howard, Crouch, Higgins and Butler, and I imagine wouldn’t hesitate to do all those deals again, if given the opportunity to go back in time and change our minds.

All of those 7 have finished top 8 in one or both of the last two B&F’s, except Higgins, who missed 3 games, yet still kicked 27 goals.

Really not much of an achievement when I read that Jack Sinclair came 2nd. Says all you need to know about the 2021 Saints

 

[BrutThough]

Really not much of an achievement when I read that Jack Sinclair came 2nd. Says all you need to know about the 2021 Saints

Mainly says that you didnt watch Sinclair play this year.

 

[Strahany]

Really not much of an achievement when I read that Jack Sinclair came 2nd. Says all you need to know about the 2021 Saints

Way to out yourself as speaking on a topic of which you know nothing.

 

[The Unicorn]

Mainly says that you didnt watch Sinclair play this year.

He is a battler.

 

[JimmyMann]

Really not much of an achievement when I read that Jack Sinclair came 2nd. Says all you need to know about the 2021 Saints

Okay there's a lotta stupid commentary from both saints fans and non-saints fans in this thread but you have no clue if you're making this comment. Watch a game or two

 

[Atomboy]

He is a battler.

Sinclair and Hind had pretty similar years for mine.

Both very handy players coming out of the backline.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Really not much of an achievement when I read that Jack Sinclair came 2nd. Says all you need to know about the 2021 Saints

Or it tells us all we need to know about your non-Essendon football knowledge and opinions.

BTW your team won just one more game than us for the year, despite the fact you had a significantly easier draw (played 3 more games against the bottom 5 teams than us, with double-ups against the two bottom teams, and Hawthorn, during the period when they were generally bottom 2!!).

If we’d had your piss-easy draw and you’d had our brutal one (all of our 10 double-up games against teams who were in the top 8 at the time we played them), we likely play finals again and you finish at least two wins behind.

 

[theyellowsash]

People all say martin this martin that but i felt that it was cotchin who really stepped up in 2017 to be the strong leader that he never was before hand. He willed himself to all the contest, he isn't a beast but he got involved in all contest, tagged team with martin superbly and showed his worth as a leader and as an actual player. his deft little hand ball, lateral side step, spin attacks, it was all cotchin who was first into the foray. Martin does the stuff on camera, it's the stuff not seen on camera that really mattered.

thats a good take on cotchin, he certainly stepped up. people also seem to think that martin only became good in 17, forgetting that he scored 25 and 21 brownlow votes in the previous 2 years (enough to win in other years), as well as in the teens 3 of the previous 4 years, so he was already performing at a very high level. but 16 was his worst year in terms of goals kicked, so i guess the lack of flashy play means he sucked. You're right in that people only see the flashy stuff.

one thing that helped cotchin was that he was being played/trying to be that outside accumulator all over the ground type for the preceeding years, just trying to get as much of the ball to try and do everything for the team, which was very much against his nature and he was honestly pretty meh at it. in 17 he and the coaching team just said * it, lets just let him go back to doing what hes good at, which is be a tough little s**t and crash into packs and beat everyone to the ball through sheer desperation, and use his in tight ability to get a kick or handball out to advantage. in doing so, he lead by example as well as doing the dirty work to set his teammates up thus making them better. he sacrificed getting himself 15 easy possessions to give edwards/martin 15 easy possessions instead.

the point being (since you guys are talking about where you are compared to us in 16/17), you might find that you can get some significant increases in outputs of players by shifting their roles to or back to what they are best at.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Not enough elite talent from the 2013-2016 drafts is the issue. Billings is a good but not great player, McCartin flopped, 2015 pick 6 lost for Carlisle and not sure what happened in 2016 (Ben Long

22

Ben Long

Age

26

Ht

186cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.9

3star

K

6.2

2star

HB

4.7

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.7

4star

MG

166.8

3star

D

12.8

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.3

3star

MG

129.0

2star

D

13.4

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

3.2

5star

MG

223.0

4star

?). Steele and Howard were moved in the right direction to offset this, but will take a few more years for Clark and Coffield to come on for them to really contend.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Not enough elite talent from the 2013-2016 drafts is the issue. Billings is a good but not great player, McCartin flopped, 2015 pick 6 lost for Carlisle and not sure what happened in 2016 (Ben Long?). Steele and Howard were moved in the right direction to offset this, but will take a few more years for Clark and Coffield to come on for them to really contend.

In 2016 we did that trade with Hawthorn of our 2016 first for their 2017 first and a couple of 2nd rounders or whatever, so that they could get JOM. That’s how we got both Clark and Coffield the next year.

Both of whom have shown plenty (including both in the AFL 22Under22 team of the year last year), but need to have big preseasons and get much fitter for next year and really step it up.