Opinion The Apprenticeship is over. Your Job starts now Dimma

[The Goon]

But was has he actually achieved? how has he "proved" himself???

I have seen some major stuff ups especially in the last 2 seasons.... in the scheme of things they are not a big deal but they did cost us a berth in the finals 2011 and 2012.

The major thing that Dimma hasn't proven is if he is a good match day coach..... a good coach doesnt lose so many close games as we did last season.

First point: If you think Dimma's coaching is definitively to blame for this you must have rocks in your head.
Secondly: How do you account for (lack of) experience in your sweeping statements?

Personally I agree he hasn't proven himself as a game day coach (I suspect Choco's appointment has something to do with this), however I do think he's got the overall position down as well as can be assessed at this point. But to blame missing close games / finals on Dimma is focussing on only one of many points.

 

[Punt_Road_Roar]

Come on tigerheads, who seriously here isnt concerned that the Richmond we all know and love and despise will return next season and fail just because thats what we do. We build up the hopes of thousands only for something crap to happen that ruins it all, such as a Matthew Richardson knee reco or a Nathan Brown broken leg, or a team that doesnt know how to close games out and panics in the last few minutes.

I want to dream with the best, but there's a black cloud hanging over our shoulders that makes it impossible for me to dream at night of rainbows and a pots of gold.

 

[Madison]

Come on tigerheads, who seriously here isnt concerned that the Richmond we all know and love and despise will return next season and fail just because thats what we do. We build up the hopes of thousands only for something crap to happen that ruins it all, such as a Matthew Richardson knee reco or a Nathan Brown broken leg, or a team that doesnt know how to close games out and panics in the last few minutes.

I want to dream with the best, but there's a black cloud hanging over our shoulders that makes it impossible for me to dream at night of rainbows and a pots of gold.

I keep bringing this up in a few different threads.

2009.

I will never get over that. I honestly think it will take a flag before I am able to speak with confidence about what Richmond will do.

 

[The Goon]

Come on tigerheads, who seriously here isnt concerned that the Richmond we all know and love and despise will return next season and fail just because thats what we do. We build up the hopes of thousands only for something crap to happen that ruins it all, such as a Matthew Richardson knee reco or a Nathan Brown broken leg, or a team that doesnt know how to close games out and panics in the last few minutes.

I want to dream with the best, but there's a black cloud hanging over our shoulders that makes it impossible for me to dream at night of rainbows and a pots of gold.

I keep bringing this up in a few different threads.

2009.

I will never get over that. I honestly think it will take a flag before I am able to speak with confidence about what Richmond will do.

You both have some sort of syndrome. Beaten child? Abused spouse? ****ed over supporter?

****ed if I know, but look at what is happening here and now and have hope that what we are doing as a club now is different. Has a different man in charge in the form of Benny Gale. Has a coach who may not be perfect but is doing a lot of things right. Has a recruitment team that is no longer going for the "hail mary" pass.Has a core of players who with the right set up could achieve greatness.

DARE TO DREAM.

GO TIGERS

 

[TJTIGER]

But was has he actually achieved? how has he "proved" himself???

I have seen some major stuff ups especially in the last 2 seasons.... in the scheme of things they are not a big deal but they did cost us a berth in the finals 2011 and 2012.

The major thing that Dimma hasn't proven is if he is a good match day coach..... a good coach doesnt lose so many close games as we did last season.

I wrote a response earlier nut but I just could'nt post it after repeated attempts. So I'll have another crack. In short I think your comments are fair in terms of match day. But I'm happy to give Dimma the benefit (some may not be). In another thread I mentioned that I thought that the arrival of chocco would be a great coaching addition for the players but would also be great in terms of what he could potentially bring to the coaches box on match day. Given the strides the club has made in many areas I believe Dimma is still developing as a match day coach and having M. Williams there with him will only be a plus.

 

[Madison]

You both have some sort of syndrome. Beaten child? Abused spouse? screwed over supporter?

screwed if I know, but look at what is happening here and now and have hope that what we are doing as a club now is different. Has a different man in charge in the form of Benny Gale. Has a coach who may not be perfect but is doing a lot of things right. Has a recruitment team that is no longer going for the "hail mary" pass.Has a core of players who with the right set up could achieve greatness.

Yes well every single time we were in a position to put ourselves in the eight last year, we tripped over our feet.

Have a look back. Freo at the G, Gold Coast, Carlton, North Melbourne, Adelaide. All games we absolutely should have won (we were smashing Adelaide at 1/4 time after all) and had we won any of those games, we would have been in the eight at the end of the round.

Yet the same old Richmond came out.

It's going to take a lot more than good signs before I am confident. I remember being confident in 2009. We won 10 or our last 12 (or something), just recruited Ben Cousins, Lids had nearly been AA squad as a 21 year old, Richo nearly won the Brownlow, rah rah rah.

 

[nut]

I wrote a response earlier nut but I just could'nt post it after repeated attempts. So I'll have another crack. In short I think your comments are fair in terms of match day. But I'm happy to give Dimma the benefit (some may not be). In another thread I mentioned that I thought that the arrival of chocco would be a great coaching addition for the players but would also be great in terms of what he could potentially bring to the coaches box on match day. Given the strides the club has made in many areas I believe Dimma is still developing as a match day coach and having M. Williams there with him will only be a plus.

Apparently Choco will not be in the box... can someone confirm?

...and I do too give Dimma leeway for the past. I understand he is learning and he will get better. But simple things like having a game plan to ice the clock will not be given the same leeway as last season, not by me or the media. The amautuer hour is over.

What the supporters of Dimma dont realise is that we need Dimma under pressure.... so he can show that he can cope.

 

[nut]

First point: If you think Dimma's coaching is definitively to blame for this you must have rocks in your head.
Secondly: How do you account for (lack of) experience in your sweeping statements?

.

Ok I have rocks in my head thinking that the coach is responsible for instructing our players how to close down tight games.....

I never said lack of experience.... I mentioned leadership something that I hope our head coach is fast tracking our young players so we dont embarass ourselves agian against an experienced side like GC again..... a game which I found hard to forgive our club for losing. Hopefully that game was not a true reflection of Dimmas coaching ability....

 

[_RT_]

Ok I have rocks in my head thinking that the coach is responsible for instructing our players how to close down tight games.....

I never said lack of experience.... I mentioned leadership something that I hope our head coach is fast tracking our young players so we dont embarass ourselves agian against an experienced side like GC again..... a game which I found hard to forgive our club for losing. Hopefully that game was not a true reflection of Dimmas coaching ability....

If you think that the Suns loss is a reflection of Hardwicks coaching ability I'd love to know what you think about him coaching us to 2 comprehensive wins against this years premiers and runner up. Lets not forget that he also got us within 2 goals of Geelong at Geelong (a side that has had the wood on us in recent years) before finally getting us over the line against another bogey side in the Saints.

Considering that he achieved this with a side that was younger than all bar Giants and Gold Coast. I'd suggest that he has gone a long way to proving himself as a good matchday coach and with the addition of some experienced players he should take the next step in his coaching career and become a coach of a top 8 side.

 

[BedrockLP]

Ok I have rocks in my head thinking that the coach is responsible for instructing our players how to close down tight games.....

I never said lack of experience.... I mentioned leadership something that I hope our head coach is fast tracking our young players so we dont embarass ourselves agian against an experienced side like GC again..... a game which I found hard to forgive our club for losing. Hopefully that game was not a true reflection of Dimmas coaching ability....

Whilst the end of the GC game was a low point in the season, I think that the fact that we had 19 fit players shortly in the 2nd half in 29 degrees and 80% humidity may have had something to do with it. The players were completely out on their feet pre 3 qtr time, so don't know if any instructions would have been executed 100% in the circumstances. The quality of team not on the park was pretty good as well that day.

Agree Dimma, like all of the Tiger team, needs to continue to improve for us to move upwards, I just don't think that one half is the best indication of Dimma's coaching ability. Otherwise a point could be made of 2nd half Hawthore or 1st half Sydney to say he's the best coach in the league with how the team went. Its balance over a season and he had quite a good year, with room to improve...just like the team. He's still better than any coach we've had since Northey IMO.

 

[DrMike]

Apparently Choco will not be in the box... can someone confirm?

...and I do too give Dimma leeway for the past. I understand he is learning and he will get better. But simple things like having a game plan to ice the clock will not be given the same leeway as last season, not by me or the media. The amautuer hour is over.

What the supporters of Dimma dont realise is that we need Dimma under pressure.... so he can show that he can cope.

The original statement mentioned that his appointment would not involve being in the coaches box/match day duties.

That said I think he'll be there anyway

 

[The Goon]

Ok I have rocks in my head thinking that the coach is responsible for instructing our players how to close down tight games.....

I never said lack of experience.... I mentioned leadership something that I hope our head coach is fast tracking our young players so we dont embarass ourselves agian against an experienced side like GC again..... a game which I found hard to forgive our club for losing. Hopefully that game was not a true reflection of Dimmas coaching ability....

There is a difference between instructing something, and that thing being understood on-field. Not only that, there is a difference between receiving the instruction, understanding it, and understanding and modifying it in a dynamic environment. That is the difference between experience and inexperience.

 

[nut]

If you think that the Suns loss is a reflection of Hardwicks coaching ability I'd love to know what you think about him coaching us to 2 comprehensive wins against this years premiers and runner up. Lets not forget that he also got us within 2 goals of Geelong at Geelong (a side that has had the wood on us in recent years) before finally getting us over the line against another bogey side in the Saints.

Considering that he achieved this with a side that was younger than all bar Giants and Gold Coast. I'd suggest that he has gone a long way to proving himself as a good matchday coach and with the addition of some experienced players he should take the next step in his coaching career and become a coach of a top 8 side.

Like I said I have given Dimma leeway over the past 2 seasons because he is learning but he will be judged harder in the upcoming season and so he should.

 

[_RT_]

Like I said I have given Dimma leeway over the past 2 seasons because he is learning but he will be judged harder in the upcoming season and so he should.

Agree with that, but at the same time we shouldn't be expecting miracles where he will have us 11-0 after half a season.

 

[Capitano_Cotch]

Come on tigerheads, who seriously here isnt concerned that the Richmond we all know and love and despise will return next season and fail just because thats what we do. We build up the hopes of thousands only for something crap to happen that ruins it all, such as a Matthew Richardson knee reco or a Nathan Brown broken leg, or a team that doesnt know how to close games out and panics in the last few minutes.

I want to dream with the best, but there's a black cloud hanging over our shoulders that makes it impossible for me to dream at night of rainbows and a pots of gold.

Yeah i've got mates who support the bombers and they say that we won't make the finals due to our 'culture'.
Let me tell you, 'culture' is the most bull**** and overrated word going around.
They also laugh at our list.
We'll show them....we'll show them all.
Have faith, it's different at Punt Road now...

 

[Livonski]

Yes well every single time we were in a position to put ourselves in the eight last year, we tripped over our feet.

Have a look back. Freo at the G, Gold Coast, Carlton, North Melbourne, Adelaide. All games we absolutely should have won (we were smashing Adelaide at 1/4 time after all) and had we won any of those games, we would have been in the eight at the end of the round.

Yet the same old Richmond came out.

It's going to take a lot more than good signs before I am confident. I remember being confident in 2009. We won 10 or our last 12 (or something), just recruited Ben Cousins, Lids had nearly been AA squad as a 21 year old, Richo nearly won the Brownlow, rah rah rah.

Talk about selective memory!
Same old Richmond smashed the premiers, I mean really smashed them, that first qtr we made em look stupid.
Oh, the raging flag favourite and runners up, Hawthorn...kicked their holy arses too.
StKilda game? Same old Richmond...?

New Richmond sunshine, on the path to glory, bit of pain on the way. It doesn't happen overnight with kids, but you can see the development right in front of you.

Go Tiges.

 

[theflea]

But was has he actually achieved? how has he "proved" himself???

I have seen some major stuff ups especially in the last 2 seasons.... in the scheme of things they are not a big deal but they did cost us a berth in the finals 2011 and 2012.

The major thing that Dimma hasn't proven is if he is a good match day coach..... a good coach doesnt lose so many close games as we did last season.

imo the coaching didnt lose the chance to make finals. the playing group just wasnt good enough for long enough and in a long season it shows.you can plan as much as you like but if the players cant follow thet plan bc they arent ready yet or just plain not good enough then i still see it as a learning curve.

 

[sregit]

If you think that the Suns loss is a reflection of Hardwicks coaching ability I'd love to know what you think about him coaching us to 2 comprehensive wins against this years premiers and runner up. Lets not forget that he also got us within 2 goals of Geelong at Geelong (a side that has had the wood on us in recent years) before finally getting us over the line against another bogey side in the Saints.

Considering that he achieved this with a side that was younger than all bar Giants and Gold Coast. I'd suggest that he has gone a long way to proving himself as a good matchday coach and with the addition of some experienced players he should take the next step in his coaching career and become a coach of a top 8 side.

This is absolute rubbish. Swans and Hawthorn games were great wins, however, the point is we lost most close games we were involved in and Dima has a bloody lot to prove! Although not solely responsible, most times late in games our game plan failed. You can blame the players but the coach has to know how to get a result with the list he has and Richmond continually folds late in games. It is time the coaches delivered on the field... AND I think they can but they haven't yet.

 

[brazilblue]

Of all the what-if variations, being blown away by a huge margin has the least amount of legs.
And actually i think the Tiges have been quite consistent. We don't get blown away by big margins. You guys often either win with a big margin, or lose by a big margin.

When I was referring to inconsistency I meant that both our teams seem to beat teams that are a little bit better than us (at the time) and then go on to lose to teams we should absolutely crush.

Gold Coast beat us both last year costing us both dearly. You also had a couple of other ordinary performances yet beat both teams who played in the GF. Cannot say that Carlton did not do the same thing but at least we had the common sense to only beat Collingwood twice ... haha

Until this is removed from both our games neither one of us deserves a finals spot in my opinion.

Hopefully Dimma will do this for you guys and MM will do it for us ...

WOULD JUST LOVE TO SEE A RFC vs CFC final again ... still remember watching the 82 GF on telly as a kid .... and would love to get you guys back for our last finals appearance!

 

[brazilblue]

The only thing that maybe highly delusional is the suggestion that Dimma gets the chop next year. As for interest in Roos ? Simple answer NO. 3 years in I see Dimma's job at best only about half done, but I don't know of anyone who's done the same or better job in the time he's done in the last 10 or so years. At the current rate of improvement and work rate I'd like to see Dimma at the club for at least 6-8 yrs if the first 3 yrs is anything to go by.

I do agree with you TJ ... I like Dimma as a coach ... I think when he came in your list was an absolute disgrace and that Wallet should have been hung and quartered for what he had done to the RFC.

But what I like about him does not make him a premiership coach either. I think the RFC at the time needed his no nonsense attitude, his give it all or you are shown the door character. A lot of tough decisions have had to be made with him at the helm and he has made them.

I just question that just like Ratten, who I did support, whether he has taken the RFC as far as he can and that maybe he does not have the x factor that premiership coaches need.

If I was a richmond supporter I would be glad to give him another year but your list is now good enough to get a finals spot (given an ok injury run) if he is a good enough coach.

IF he finishes outside the 8 by a couple of matches and doesn't have any glaring excuses AND there was a Whoosha, Roos or someone of that elk out there my opinion would be that your club would not be doing its job throwing the kitchen sink at them.

 

[nut]

When I was referring to inconsistency I meant that both our teams seem to beat teams that are a little bit better than us (at the time) and then go on to lose to teams we should absolutely crush.

Gold Coast beat us both last year costing us both dearly. You also had a couple of other ordinary performances yet beat both teams who played in the GF. Cannot say that Carlton did not do the same thing but at least we had the common sense to only beat Collingwood twice ... haha

Until this is removed from both our games neither one of us deserves a finals spot in my opinion.

Hopefully Dimma will do this for you guys and MM will do it for us ...

WOULD JUST LOVE TO SEE A RFC vs CFC final again ... still remember watching the 82 GF on telly as a kid .... and would love to get you guys back for our last finals appearance!

So the swans who lost to a 12th placed side didnt deserve to maske the finals? What about the Hawksthey lost to us as well. I get your point about inconsistency but at the end of the day I wouldnt care if we lost to GWS the GC and Port next season as l;ong as we won enough games to finish inside the 8...

 

[brazilblue]

You're skating on very thin ice here sunshine. Be more respectful on other peoples boards.

Apologies Goon sometimes it can be hard not to slip in a small indiscretion when the rest of the post is quite clearly positive RFC.

For what its worth even though the last 30 odd years have been refreshing for us Carlton supporters (and the last 10 quite nice for you guys .. haha) I believe that there is no better football than seeing all of Essendon, Collingwood, Richmond and Carlton in the finals.

Its would be the AFL commission's wet dream and all of ours too.

So Good luck ... if it were Richmond vs Gold Coast for the last spot in the 8 and we had locked in 5th I would be roaring just as loudly as any RFC supporter for you guys to win.

I'm now off to have a bath!

 

[brazilblue]

So the swans who lost to a 12th placed side didnt deserve to maske the finals? What about the Hawksthey lost to us as well. I get your point about inconsistency but at the end of the day I wouldnt care if we lost to GWS the GC and Port next season as l;ong as we won enough games to finish inside the 8...

Most teams have a slump during the season ... its just too long in most cases not too ... it was just beautiful that Collingwood managed to have it in the finals series when they were hot favourites to win the flag ... but honestly if any team lost to GWS, GC and Port in the same year yet still made the finals they would just be making up the numbers A.K.A Essendon vs Carlton a couple of years back.

I can appreciate having not been in the finals for a while it would be nice just to get there but to be just making up the numbers? I doubt you would want that.

I remember when we finally played finals footy again, okay we lost for the first couple of years (both times we should have won) ... feels so much better than just making up the numbers ... gives you a real rise at what is possible the following year.

I just don't know whether Dimma has it in him to take you guys further but I would give him next year to find out ... he inherited a s**t list ... its not "fantastic" yet but its got its merits now ... he has more than enough to work with ... he should be able to now show whether he can take you to your next premiership.

His time of not having to answer and questions regarding his coaching is now over IMO ... personally I think most of the RFC supporters see that too.

 

[_RT_]

This is absolute rubbish. Swans and Hawthorn games were great wins, however, the point is we lost most close games we were involved in and Dima has a bloody lot to prove! Although not solely responsible, most times late in games our game plan failed. You can blame the players but the coach has to know how to get a result with the list he has and Richmond continually folds late in games. It is time the coaches delivered on the field... AND I think they can but they haven't yet.

Do you understand that outside the Suns and Giants we were the youngest list in the league last year? When you're that young and inexperienced you are naturally going to struggle to close out games. That is because you either don't know what to do or are physically unable to do what you need to do due to exhaustion. With another preseason under their belts as well as the addition of a few more mature/experienced players we should be better positioned to close out those games we couldn't last year.

 

[The Goon]

Most teams have a slump during the season ... its just too long in most cases not too ... it was just beautiful that Collingwood managed to have it in the finals series when they were hot favourites to win the flag ... but honestly if any team lost to GWS, GC and Port in the same year yet still made the finals they would just be making up the numbers A.K.A Essendon vs Carlton a couple of years back.

I can appreciate having not been in the finals for a while it would be nice just to get there but to be just making up the numbers? I doubt you would want that.

I remember when we finally played finals footy again, okay we lost for the first couple of years (both times we should have won) ... feels so much better than just making up the numbers ... gives you a real rise at what is possible the following year.

I just don't know whether Dimma has it in him to take you guys further but I would give him next year to find out ... he inherited a s**t list ... its not "fantastic" yet but its got its merits now ... he has more than enough to work with ... he should be able to now show whether he can take you to your next premiership.

His time of not having to answer and questions regarding his coaching is now over IMO ... personally I think most of the RFC supporters see that too.

Seeing as we haven't played finals yet (in fact we finished 3 1/2 games and % out of the 8) I'd say it's highly debatable that we have the list to play finals yet. As everyone says we've got some nice top end talent, but we've also still got a lot of developing kids who are starting 22 and still need to take the next step if we're going to get somewhere.

Following from this if we don't make the finals it's not necessarily due to Dimma's coaching, it may be simply that some players don't come on as expected. That's not to say he shouldn't be under the spotlight. He's made mistakes in the past and has had increased scrutiny on him this year, but it's not necessarily the be all and end all.