Toast Welcome to Hawthorn, Finn Maginness “absolute Hawthorn nuffie” and a Hawk to 2025

[The Chad and I]

I am not writing him off, but is anybody seriously suggesting he lived up to expectations this season?
The consensus pre an post draft was that he was ready to go. I didn't expect him to dominate, but at least make a contribution at senior level.

 

[Slysh]

I am not writing him off, but is anybody seriously suggesting he lived up to expectations this season?
The consensus pre an post draft was that he was ready to go. I didn't expect him to dominate, but at least make a contribution at senior level.

Depends on what those expectations were. I spent months and months and months telling people they were expecting too much. People that most likely had never seen him play were locking him in for round 1 (people are doing the same with Downie now).

He had no VFL to apply his trade this year, it seems to have been game plan, team structure and running patterns holding him back. It is hard to work on that in 12 a side and 14 a side mickey mouse games.

We couldn't see how he was playing in those so we are basically basing his year off one game that we got smashed in.

He pretty much gets a C which is a pass because we didn't get to see enough of him. Hopefully will get to watch him a lot more next year no matter what level it is at.

 

[jameses]

Depends on what those expectations were. I spent months and months and months telling people they were expecting too much. People that most likely had never seen him play were locking him in for round 1 (people are doing the same with Downie now).

He had no VFL to apply his trade this year, it seems to have been game plan, team structure and running patterns holding him back. It is hard to work on that in 12 a side and 14 a side mickey mouse games.

We couldn't see how he was playing in those so we are basically basing his year off one game that we got smashed in.

He pretty much gets a C which is a pass because we didn't get to see enough of him. Hopefully will get to watch him a lot more next year no matter what level it is at.

The expectations placed on him were embarrassing. And like you said, the people that were perpetuating that Finn was the saviour had probably never seen him play.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Delist!!

 

[cryptor]

The club reports on him were pretty consistent that he needed to work on his running patterns within the Hawthorn game plan. Pretty hard to learn those when there's no VFL season, no-to-limited group training sessions, and the practice games he did get to play weren't 18 a side or with many senior players who could provide on field direction.

Very trying conditions for a brand new midfielder to learn a complex system under. The fact Day was able to crack the side, stay in, and make a huge impact says more about Day and little about Finn.

Once he's had the chance to really learn the systems under proper tutelage he'll be a great addition to the side, no doubt.

 

[TazHawk15]

The club reports on him were pretty consistent that he needed to work on his running patterns within the Hawthorn game plan. Pretty hard to learn those when there's no VFL season, no-to-limited group training sessions, and the practice games he did get to play weren't 18 a side or with many senior players who could provide on field direction.

Very trying conditions for a brand new midfielder to learn a complex system under. The fact Day was able to crack the side, stay in, and make a huge impact says more about Day and little about Finn.

Once he's had the chance to really learn the systems under proper tutelage he'll be a great addition to the side, no doubt.

Yep.

He will have got a fair bit of feedback on areas where he needs to work on, so its heads down bum up for Finn.

 

[Bugs1977]

Delist!!

Better yet lets trade him to Shitney

 

[eldorado]

I am not writing him off, but is anybody seriously suggesting he lived up to expectations this season?
The consensus pre an post draft was that he was ready to go. I didn't expect him to dominate, but at least make a contribution at senior level.

As a rule, people's expectations bear no reflection on reality at all. In particular, the 'expectations' of us nuffies not involved in the actual TAC Cup, or talent spotting field, the vast majority of whom hadn't seen him kick a football, and wouldn't have known him from a bar of soap before his photo went up

Joe Public's expectations are meaningless as a metric against which to measure the real world performance of a first year player.

 

[eldorado]

People that most likely had never seen him play were locking him in for round 1 (people are doing the same with Downie now).

I read here a while ago that we wouldn't miss Smith, that we will have a preferable option in Downie on the wing next year

 

[MrPremiership]

I am not writing him off, but is anybody seriously suggesting he lived up to expectations this season?
The consensus pre an post draft was that he was ready to go. I didn't expect him to dominate, but at least make a contribution at senior level.

"Ready to go" in what sense? Because he had a big body? There is so much more to it than that. Pittonet was heavier than Big Boy when he was drafted but didn't play for a couple of years.

Club puts a big emphasis on playing the "Hawthorn way" and midfielders needing to be defensively solid before they get games. I think it took Finn a while to get that, which was made harder by lack of VFL games.

 

[joeyhawker]

I'd be interested to know exactly what they mean by "running patterns" - without being too harsh on our midfield our "running patterns" appeared to be to run to the ball where it ain't!!!!!

On SM-G973F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Milkshaker]

I'd be interested to know exactly what they mean by "running patterns" - without being too harsh on our midfield our "running patterns" appeared to be to run to the ball where it ain't!!!!!

On SM-G973F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I read here a while ago that we wouldn't miss Smith, that we will have a preferable option in Downie on the wing next year

Heretic!!

 

[cryptor]

I'd be interested to know exactly what they mean by "running patterns" - without being too harsh on our midfield our "running patterns" appeared to be to run to the ball where it ain't!!!!!

On SM-G973F using BigFooty.com mobile app

In defence we currently guard space in a zone/web/grid/whatever you want to call it. The idea is meant to be that if the players can create this form quickly and shift the formation across and up & down the ground as a cohesive unit then we make it very difficult for the opposition to move the ball by foot (as there shouldn't be space for them to lead into), forcing them into playing on by hand and then if our players can run to the right spots we can create enough pressure to force a turnover.

Then in attack our players have pre-determined spots that will be kicked to. Performed correctly every single one of our players should be able to predict/know what their teammate with the ball will do next. That they'll kick it to a certain spot on the ground, and that certain teammates will already be running to be at the spot when the ball gets there. And then each successive disposal from there. Effectively the players would be playing like they can read each others minds.

Obviously all great in theory, but clearly requires a huge amount of discipline, practice and focus. Very easy to see how it so easily falls apart for us in a year where our players can't train together and there's plenty of distractions.

 

[Brant]

In defence we currently guard space in a zone/web/grid/whatever you want to call it. The idea is meant to be that if the players can create this form quickly and shift the formation across and up & down the ground as a cohesive unit then we make it very difficult for the opposition to move the ball by foot (as there shouldn't be space for them to lead into), forcing them into playing on by hand and then if our players can run to the right spots we can create enough pressure to force a turnover.

Then in attack our players have pre-determined spots that will be kicked to. Performed correctly every single one of our players should be able to predict/know what their teammate with the ball will do next. That they'll kick it to a certain spot on the ground, and that certain teammates will already be running to be at the spot when the ball gets there. And then each successive disposal from there. Effectively the players would be playing like they can read each others minds.

Obviously all great in theory, but clearly requires a huge amount of discipline, practice and focus. Very easy to see how it so easily falls apart for us in a year where our players can't train together and there's plenty of distractions.

Yet we miraculously forgot that perhaps the opposition may also predict/know what the teammate will do next

With a little more analysis, that same crafty opposition could determine our weaknesses & exploit them like collective bosses, whilst we stuck damned hard to the plan.... every bloody week.

The s**t thing - the plans were largely stupid to start with as they in no way complemented our playing list's strengths...

 

[The German Hunter]

Nearly every drafted hawk will do at least a 2 year apprenticeship before a taste of senior footy. We have always protected our kids and got them ready for the rigours of AFL footy instead of throwing them to the wolves. There is the odd exception (Cyril, Day)
Make no mistake, this kid will become a very good player for our club, just like his dad and grandfather.

 

[cryptor]

Yet we miraculously forgot that perhaps the opposition may also predict/know what the teammate will do next

With a little more analysis, that same crafty opposition could determine our weaknesses & exploit them like collective bosses, whilst we stuck damned hard to the plan.... every bloody week.

The sh*t thing - the plans were largely stupid to start with as they in no way complemented our playing list's strengths...

Like I said, it's great in theory. And we've had varying levels of success with it. But when it goes wrong our players look lost. Time for something new.

But this thread isn't for a discussion on the merits of our game plan. Was just answering the "running patterns" question.

 

[The Chad and I]

Nearly every drafted hawk will do at least a 2 year apprenticeship before a taste of senior footy. We have always protected our kids and got them ready for the rigours of AFL footy instead of throwing them to the wolves. There is the odd exception (Cyril, Day)
Make no mistake, this kid will become a very good player for our club, just like his dad and grandfather.

Apprenticeships are for underdeveloped draftees or those with lesser talent.
Maginness isn't an elite talent and will be an industrious type, like J.Kennedy and Sewell.

 

[The German Hunter]

Apprenticeships are for underdeveloped draftees or those with lesser talent.
Maginness isn't an elite talent and will be an industrious type, like J.Kennedy and Sewell.

Wow, really? Kennedy isn’t elite?
Guys like smith, Mitchell, hodge, Birchell should have been turfed because they were no good in the first season. Micheal Tuck was not an elite talent because he had to bide his time in the seconds?
s**t post mate

 

[The Chad and I]

Josh Kennedy is not an elite talent, but the quantity and consistency of his output is elite because he has been a highly industrious player.
Same with Tom Mitchell.

 

[Bugs1977]

Yet we miraculously forgot that perhaps the opposition may also predict/know what the teammate will do next

With a little more analysis, that same crafty opposition could determine our weaknesses & exploit them like collective bosses, whilst we stuck damned hard to the plan.... every bloody week.

The sh*t thing - the plans were largely stupid to start with as they in no way complemented our playing list's strengths...

We’ve had so much turnover with our list already with Frawley, Stratton, Poppy, Henderson all retired then Sicily being out for next season and the unknown status of Smith which makes 5-6 best 22 players that won’t be their next season. I wouldn’t be surprised at that we play a more simplified game plan next season. What we tried to do this year with our game plan clearly doesn’t suit the cattle we had and with the likely inclusion of 3-4 rookies and other via trade then simplifying might just be the best thing to do until we can settle on our identity.

 

[eldorado]

Maginness isn't an elite talent and will be an industrious type, like J.Kennedy and Sewell.

This was my hope as to where he was drafted, and if it happens, I'll be more than happy.

The days of me inflating my balloon of over-ripe expectations before sadly watching it burst has long gone, pretty much since they started televising NAB challenge games....and you realised that the glowing reports of the dual-footed, quick-thinking explosive pace machine of an 18 year old you drafted didn't really translate in a game with actual grown-ups.

One thing for optimism though, while he has the big body, he is also something of a running machine, faster, and potentially more spread than either Sewell, or Kennedy.

but, yeah, apart from Judd, and Cyril, one never sees first years stand out for their abilities...

 

[Hodginator]

He was spoken about like a big talent who could make an immediate contribution but was gifted a solitary game late in the season, in which he showed very little.

A disappointing season from someone who is physically "ready-made" for senior football.
If the tin-pot Kangaroos didn't make a premature bid on him, we would have taken him in the third round - and that would've been about right for what he has shown so far.

I’m disappointed we didn’t delist him last week with the others.

 

[eldorado]

Yet we miraculously forgot that perhaps the opposition may also predict/know what the teammate will do next

I don't think that's feasible, Brant.

Each team is hard-pressed, full time, learning their own method of how they want to attack, defend, and set-up stoppages.

This is possibly a year-long process, maybe longer.

Then, for a couple of days, they examine your videos, try to work out what you're doing, and do their best to work out the best way to counteract it. e.g. will their normal defensive set-ups work against this team, and what will need twaeking or adjusting.

Every game-plan works on creating numerous options within a framework, that player can be confident will be available to them when they have possession, not just one option. When defending, there is another framework, but a team can only truly react to the other team's movement, not predict with any degree of surety.

That's if the team is executing it well, though.

 

[Howe Amazing]

I hope Finn turns out like Josh Kennedy. Not many in their first pre season beats the likes of Issac Smith in the 2-3km runs.