List Mgmt. What to do with McCartin?

Drake Huggins

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I think everyone can agree on wanting to at least see him get a solid body of work, but like StCicatriz I'm also very very skeptical about Paddy. From what I've seen he's played one good game in his career and 3 years in at that. He's completely inneffectual if he isn't being given the ball on a platter and even then he fumbles a lot. He doesn't create space, doesn't know how to protect the drop, doesn't even push off his opponent to lead, has no breakaway speed and is cooked halfway through every game.

That's not even mentioning the diabetes and concussions...
So apart from all that, he's tracking beautifully.
 

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What do we see as a pass mark for him next year?
Obviously a continuation of games and getting games because he deserves them.
My view:
35 goals +
Increased pressure output. He’s not there to tackle but I’d like to see some real intent going at a ball carrier. None of his token I’ll half chase because i have too not because i want to bury this campaigner.
Hurting opposition in packs. Id like to see rance rolling on the ground crying because paddy just smashed him. Like he did Dom sheed in the 18s.
I want brereton (playing days) type arrogance.
I want to see him fight someone.
I want to see him give Steven May the same love may gave stef Martin.
Here paddy - go watch videos of Lockett and Hall. Come back when you’re ready to become the player we know you can be
 

austinnn

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Unnecessary History Lesson:

After finishing the 2014 AFL season with 4 wins in 22 (against Melbourne, GWS, Essendon and Freo if you must know) and the wooden spoon - below even tankers Melbourne on inferior percentage - with the lowest club membership in six years and lowest average home attendance in twenty (20!) years in Alan Richardson's first season as head coach of an AFL club, St Kilda quite simply had a stinker of a year.

The one silver lining in a very cloudy sky was the bittersweet acquisition of the number one draft pick, which was used in a way which the majority of pundits and experts didn't expect in the drafting of key forward Paddy McCartin. The reasoning behind this decision has been documented in detail in that book by Emma Quayle.

----------------------------------------------

Back to the future:

Four and a half years later, the consequences of that decision are laid bare.

The key forward that Paddy could have been, was supposed to be, has informed our attacking play the last few years and even today is apparent. Long bombs into the forward line which should be marked by the ghost of Paddy's potential are landing in the hands of opposition backmen, for ghosts can't mark.

The bags of goals we were promised to continue the lineage of Riewoldt, Koshitzke, Gehrig, Hall, Loewe, Lockett et al have not appeared, with the ghost of Paddy's potential not able to kick anything with a foot made of ectoplasm and the real Paddy never managing more than 2 a game when he could get onto the park.

The big bustling no-nonsense forward we were sold at the showroom has proven to be a fragile and inconsistent player with a good football brain who can occasionally split a pack, but is as likely to have himself removed from the field of play as have opposition defenders removed. The ghost of Paddy's potential is unable to crunch anything, for 'tis but a phantom.

Josh Bruce is our one tall key forward and our 2019 team looks much better for his return to form, and I'll put my hand up and say I was very vocal in the off season about the need for him to be traded, a position I am not entirely ready to desert. As good as Josh has been, he should not be our lone gun.

Josh Battle is mystifyingly being reprogrammed as a backman, despite his talent up front and our need for it, to make up for the loss of Carlisle, Roberton and Clavarino.

Tim Membrey - despite his orangutan like arms - is no tall and Blake Acres is too inconsistent. We have therefore put all our money on the one they call Winx, but that race won't start for a few seasons, so we have a big McCartin shaped hole in our forward line.

Why Paddy was drafted is not worth discussing, but I'm writing this to state my belief that the effects of that decision have set this club's rebuild back at least a couple of seasons and we need to accept that even if Paddy does overcome the huge hurdle of his concussion/diabetes speedball, he is unlikely to ever be the forward we needed.

He would have been great in the Lockett/Dunstall era, they say. Too slow, too small a tank, they claim. And obviously, too inconsistent in appearance or output to be of much use as a strategic focal point in attack.

A great guy from all accounts, king of the kids, facing insurmountable pressure of number one pick cruelled time and again by injury at a club craving its next saviour in the post-Roo era. But still...

Had Paddy been the forward we needed, our mindless attack into the forward line last year would have brought far more reward and some of those losses would have been wins. We may have even made finals back in 2017.

So forward coach Brett Ratten's main job this summer - I hope - has been closing the book on the McCartin-based attack, and focusing on the mid range fire power at our disposal. However, with Richmond's premiership rapidly disappearing in the rear view mirror and current premier Eagle's KPF one of its strengths, how long before giant forward lines are again all the rage?

Season 2014 was hurtful in so many ways, and it continues to eat away at us, with the effects of drafting "generational bookends" McCartin and Goddard along with MacKenzie and Lonie and rookie Sinclair.

Rant over!
 
Last edited:

The_Steadier

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Unnecessary History Lesson:

After finishing the 2014 AFL season with 4 wins in 22 (against Melbourne, GWS, Essendon and Freo if you must know) and the wooden spoon - below even tankers Melbourne on inferior percentage - with the lowest club membership in six years and lowest average home attendance in twenty (20!) years in Alan Richardson's first season as head coach of an AFL club, St Kilda quite simply had a stinker of a year.

The one silver lining in a very cloudy sky was the bittersweet acquisition of the number one draft pick, which was used in a way which the majority of pundits and experts didn't expect in the drafting of key forward Paddy McCartin. The reasoning behind this decision has been documented in detail in that book by Emma Quayle.

----------------------------------------------

Back to the future:

Four and a half years later, the consequences of that decision are laid bare.

The key forward that Paddy could have been, was supposed to be, has informed our attacking play the last few years and even today is apparent. Long bombs into the forward line which should be marked by the ghost of Paddy's potential are landing in the hands of opposition backmen, for ghosts can't mark.

The bags of goals we were promised to continue the lineage of Riewoldt, Koshitzke, Gehrig, Hall, Loewe, Lickety et al have not appeared, with the ghost of Paddy's potential not able to kick anything with a foot made of ectoplasm and the real Paddy never managing more than 2 a game when he could get onto the park.

The big bustling no-nonsense forward we were sold at the showroom has proven to be a fragile and inconsistent player with a good football brain who can occasionally split a pack, but is as likely to have himself removed from the field of play as have opposition defenders removed. The ghost of Paddy's potential is unable to crunch anything, for 'tis but a phantom.

Josh Bruce is our one tall key forward and our 2019 team looks much better for his return to form, and I'll put my hand up and say I was very vocal in the off season about the need for him to be traded, a position I am not entirely ready to desert. As good as Josh has been, he should not be our lone gun.

Josh Battle is mystifyingly being reprogrammed as a backman, despite his talent up front and our need for it, to make up for the loss of Carlisle, Roberton and Clavarino.

Tim Membrey - despite his orangutan like arms - is no tall and Blake Acres is too inconsistent. We have therefore put all our money on the one they call Winx, but that race won't start for a few seasons, so we have a big McCartin shaped hole in our forward line.

Why Paddy was drafted is not worth discussing, but I'm writing this to state my belief that the effects of that decision have set this club's rebuild back at least a couple of seasons and we need to accept that even if Paddy does overcome the huge hurdle of his concussion/diabetes speedball, he is unlikely to ever be the forward we needed.

He would have been great in the Lockett/Dunstall era, they say. Too slow, too small a tank, they claim. And obviously, too inconsistent in appearance or output to be of much use as a strategic focal point in attack.

A great guy from all accounts, king of the kids, facing insurmountable pressure of number one pick cruelled time and again by injury at a club craving its next saviour in the post-Roo era. But still...

Had Paddy been the forward we needed, our mindless attack into the forward line last year would have brought far more reward and some of those losses would have been wins. We may have even made finals back in 2017.

So forward coach Brett Ratten's main job this summer - I hope - has been closing the book on the McCartin-based attack, and focusing on the mid range fire power at our disposal. However, with Richmond's premiership rapidly disappearing in the rear view mirror and current premier Eagle's KPF one of its strengths, how long before giant forward lines are again all the rage?

Season 2014 was hurtful in so many ways, and it continues to eat away at us, with the effects of drafting "generational bookends" McCartin and Goddard along with MacKenzie and Lonie and rookie Sinclair.

Rant over!
If we're gonna play shoulda, coulda, woulda... i think losing tom lynch has set us back more than paddy.

Lynch, membery and Bruce would make a ripping, versatile forward lineup
 

dct66

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Unnecessary History Lesson:

After finishing the 2014 AFL season with 4 wins in 22 (against Melbourne, GWS, Essendon and Freo if you must know) and the wooden spoon - below even tankers Melbourne on inferior percentage - with the lowest club membership in six years and lowest average home attendance in twenty (20!) years in Alan Richardson's first season as head coach of an AFL club, St Kilda quite simply had a stinker of a year.

The one silver lining in a very cloudy sky was the bittersweet acquisition of the number one draft pick, which was used in a way which the majority of pundits and experts didn't expect in the drafting of key forward Paddy McCartin. The reasoning behind this decision has been documented in detail in that book by Emma Quayle.

----------------------------------------------

Back to the future:

Four and a half years later, the consequences of that decision are laid bare.

The key forward that Paddy could have been, was supposed to be, has informed our attacking play the last few years and even today is apparent. Long bombs into the forward line which should be marked by the ghost of Paddy's potential are landing in the hands of opposition backmen, for ghosts can't mark.

The bags of goals we were promised to continue the lineage of Riewoldt, Koshitzke, Gehrig, Hall, Loewe, Lickety et al have not appeared, with the ghost of Paddy's potential not able to kick anything with a foot made of ectoplasm and the real Paddy never managing more than 2 a game when he could get onto the park.

The big bustling no-nonsense forward we were sold at the showroom has proven to be a fragile and inconsistent player with a good football brain who can occasionally split a pack, but is as likely to have himself removed from the field of play as have opposition defenders removed. The ghost of Paddy's potential is unable to crunch anything, for 'tis but a phantom.

Josh Bruce is our one tall key forward and our 2019 team looks much better for his return to form, and I'll put my hand up and say I was very vocal in the off season about the need for him to be traded, a position I am not entirely ready to desert. As good as Josh has been, he should not be our lone gun.

Josh Battle is mystifyingly being reprogrammed as a backman, despite his talent up front and our need for it, to make up for the loss of Carlisle, Roberton and Clavarino.

Tim Membrey - despite his orangutan like arms - is no tall and Blake Acres is too inconsistent. We have therefore put all our money on the one they call Winx, but that race won't start for a few seasons, so we have a big McCartin shaped hole in our forward line.

Why Paddy was drafted is not worth discussing, but I'm writing this to state my belief that the effects of that decision have set this club's rebuild back at least a couple of seasons and we need to accept that even if Paddy does overcome the huge hurdle of his concussion/diabetes speedball, he is unlikely to ever be the forward we needed.

He would have been great in the Lockett/Dunstall era, they say. Too slow, too small a tank, they claim. And obviously, too inconsistent in appearance or output to be of much use as a strategic focal point in attack.

A great guy from all accounts, king of the kids, facing insurmountable pressure of number one pick cruelled time and again by injury at a club craving its next saviour in the post-Roo era. But still...

Had Paddy been the forward we needed, our mindless attack into the forward line last year would have brought far more reward and some of those losses would have been wins. We may have even made finals back in 2017.

So forward coach Brett Ratten's main job this summer - I hope - has been closing the book on the McCartin-based attack, and focusing on the mid range fire power at our disposal. However, with Richmond's premiership rapidly disappearing in the rear view mirror and current premier Eagle's KPF one of its strengths, how long before giant forward lines are again all the rage?

Season 2014 was hurtful in so many ways, and it continues to eat away at us, with the effects of drafting "generational bookends" McCartin and Goddard along with MacKenzie and Lonie and rookie Sinclair.

Rant over!
I don't see any ranting at all. I see a well considered piece laying out a persuasive reason for our 'bomb it long' game plan and the ongoing consequences of the McCartin and Goddard picks not working for us. And so we wait the result of drafting/trading injured players hoping that Hanners, King and Bytel come good.
 

austinnn

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If we're gonna play shoulda, coulda, woulda... i think losing tom lynch has set us back more than paddy.

Lynch, membery and Bruce would make a ripping, versatile forward lineup
Maybe, but we didn't waste the last 3 years creating a forward set up for Tom Lynch to dominate. We didn't burn our only number one draft pick since the early noughties on Tom Lynch. I don't blame Paddy, he did all he could and more. But the person in charge of that decision had to pay with his own head, despite any mitigating circumstances and his other wins. It damaged the club heavily and I think we are only now realising how much after giving the decision benefit of the doubt initially.
 

gringo2011

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Pretty much made a meal of most drafts since 2002. With a few exceptions. The best players we have drafted are Stuv and Gresham and the 2011 draft netted 3 slightly above average players in Ross, Webster and Newnes.

Paddy was just one of many fails. I still think Brisbane and Carlton have more potential superstars than us already on their list. We do have a solid base and I see us a bit like North were who got close but lacked top end talent ultimately. Richmond were similar once and the addition of their 4 guns turned them formidable.

Lynch, Cripps and Mc Evoy were pretty handy players we didn't manage as well. To me we should be finding a gun recruiter and pay them what ever they ask.

Brisbane lost a heap of gun kids, rebuilt the rebuild and look away while we are still waiting for stars. At least Carlton are so awful that they make us look genius.
 

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Maybe, but we didn't waste the last 3 years creating a forward set up for Tom Lynch to dominate. We didn't burn our only number one draft pick since the early noughties on Tom Lynch. I don't blame Paddy, he did all he could and more. But the person in charge of that decision had to pay with his own head, despite any mitigating circumstances and his other wins. It damaged the club heavily and I think we are only now realising how much after giving the decision benefit of the doubt initially.
Don't worry we have King , who will be better than Lynch - Paddy by the looks is finished , its just bad luck.
We have a key back in Clavarino and a key forward in King , but we will just have to wait until they develop.
 

Present Not Past

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Pretty much made a meal of most drafts since 2002. With a few exceptions. The best players we have drafted are Stuv and Gresham and the 2011 draft netted 3 slightly above average players in Ross, Webster and Newnes.

Paddy was just one of many fails. I still think Brisbane and Carlton have more potential superstars than us already on their list. We do have a solid base and I see us a bit like North were who got close but lacked top end talent ultimately. Richmond were similar once and the addition of their 4 guns turned them formidable.

Lynch, Cripps and Mc Evoy were pretty handy players we didn't manage as well. To me we should be finding a gun recruiter and pay them what ever they ask.

Brisbane lost a heap of gun kids, rebuilt the rebuild and look away while we are still waiting for stars. At least Carlton are so awful that they make us look genius.
Cripps wanted to go back home, so no blame there on the club.
 

austinnn

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Don't worry we have King , who will be better than Lynch - Paddy by the looks is finished , its just bad luck.
We have a key back in Clavarino and a key forward in King , but we will just have to wait until they develop.
I agree that we can look forward with optimism. I personally can't wait until this current era of St Kilda is nothing but history. I am sti enjoying the wins but this team doesn't hold a candle to the teams that Alves, Thomas and Lyon were working with.
 

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Pretty much made a meal of most drafts since 2002. With a few exceptions. The best players we have drafted are Stuv and Gresham and the 2011 draft netted 3 slightly above average players in Ross, Webster and Newnes.

Paddy was just one of many fails. I still think Brisbane and Carlton have more potential superstars than us already on their list. We do have a solid base and I see us a bit like North were who got close but lacked top end talent ultimately. Richmond were similar once and the addition of their 4 guns turned them formidable.

Lynch, Cripps and Mc Evoy were pretty handy players we didn't manage as well. To me we should be finding a gun recruiter and pay them what ever they ask.

Brisbane lost a heap of gun kids, rebuilt the rebuild and look away while we are still waiting for stars. At least Carlton are so awful that they make us look genius.
The thing I like is we didn't get Dustin Martin , he just looks cooked - 3 games this year has done really nothing and has hardly laid a tackle , I feel he just hasn't got the speed - had his stand out season and now is just playing on past glory - this will only last so long.
However we can't talk we went out on a limb and got Hannerbery , I just hope we can get him on the park , because even if he doesn't return to his best I still feel he will help us - he would of helped us on the weekend.
Hopefully Gubby will line up a star for us and knowing what he has done in the past he would have already have something in the works.
 

Mowman

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The thing I like is we didn't get Dustin Martin , he just looks cooked - 3 games this year has done really nothing and has hardly laid a tackle , I feel he just hasn't got the speed - had his stand out season and now is just playing on past glory - this will only last so long.
However we can't talk we went out on a limb and got Hannerbery , I just hope we can get him on the park , because even if he doesn't return to his best I still feel he will help us - he would of helped us on the weekend.
Hopefully Gubby will line up a star for us and knowing what he has done in the past he would have already have something in the works.
You are joking ? you forgot one of these ;)
 
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Unnecessary History Lesson:

After finishing the 2014 AFL season with 4 wins in 22 (against Melbourne, GWS, Essendon and Freo if you must know) and the wooden spoon - below even tankers Melbourne on inferior percentage - with the lowest club membership in six years and lowest average home attendance in twenty (20!) years in Alan Richardson's first season as head coach of an AFL club, St Kilda quite simply had a stinker of a year.

The one silver lining in a very cloudy sky was the bittersweet acquisition of the number one draft pick, which was used in a way which the majority of pundits and experts didn't expect in the drafting of key forward Paddy McCartin. The reasoning behind this decision has been documented in detail in that book by Emma Quayle.

----------------------------------------------

Back to the future:

Four and a half years later, the consequences of that decision are laid bare.

The key forward that Paddy could have been, was supposed to be, has informed our attacking play the last few years and even today is apparent. Long bombs into the forward line which should be marked by the ghost of Paddy's potential are landing in the hands of opposition backmen, for ghosts can't mark.

The bags of goals we were promised to continue the lineage of Riewoldt, Koshitzke, Gehrig, Hall, Loewe, Lockett et al have not appeared, with the ghost of Paddy's potential not able to kick anything with a foot made of ectoplasm and the real Paddy never managing more than 2 a game when he could get onto the park.

The big bustling no-nonsense forward we were sold at the showroom has proven to be a fragile and inconsistent player with a good football brain who can occasionally split a pack, but is as likely to have himself removed from the field of play as have opposition defenders removed. The ghost of Paddy's potential is unable to crunch anything, for 'tis but a phantom.

Josh Bruce is our one tall key forward and our 2019 team looks much better for his return to form, and I'll put my hand up and say I was very vocal in the off season about the need for him to be traded, a position I am not entirely ready to desert. As good as Josh has been, he should not be our lone gun.

Josh Battle is mystifyingly being reprogrammed as a backman, despite his talent up front and our need for it, to make up for the loss of Carlisle, Roberton and Clavarino.

Tim Membrey - despite his orangutan like arms - is no tall and Blake Acres is too inconsistent. We have therefore put all our money on the one they call Winx, but that race won't start for a few seasons, so we have a big McCartin shaped hole in our forward line.

Why Paddy was drafted is not worth discussing, but I'm writing this to state my belief that the effects of that decision have set this club's rebuild back at least a couple of seasons and we need to accept that even if Paddy does overcome the huge hurdle of his concussion/diabetes speedball, he is unlikely to ever be the forward we needed.

He would have been great in the Lockett/Dunstall era, they say. Too slow, too small a tank, they claim. And obviously, too inconsistent in appearance or output to be of much use as a strategic focal point in attack.

A great guy from all accounts, king of the kids, facing insurmountable pressure of number one pick cruelled time and again by injury at a club craving its next saviour in the post-Roo era. But still...

Had Paddy been the forward we needed, our mindless attack into the forward line last year would have brought far more reward and some of those losses would have been wins. We may have even made finals back in 2017.

So forward coach Brett Ratten's main job this summer - I hope - has been closing the book on the McCartin-based attack, and focusing on the mid range fire power at our disposal. However, with Richmond's premiership rapidly disappearing in the rear view mirror and current premier Eagle's KPF one of its strengths, how long before giant forward lines are again all the rage?

Season 2014 was hurtful in so many ways, and it continues to eat away at us, with the effects of drafting "generational bookends" McCartin and Goddard along with MacKenzie and Lonie and rookie Sinclair.

Rant over!
We didn't build a game plan around Paddy. We built one around Roo and drafted the first key forward we could snag hoping he'd slot right in as Roos replacement.
 

WhiskySaint

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Just on Paddy, I was told by a friend who has a family member who works for the club, that Paddy is done but seeking more advise in an attempt to come back and play. All stuff we have already heard I know.

But he also said that if Paddy does somehow come back he won’t be playing in the forwardline. I guess playing the role that Battle is now.

Is a bit of a moot point though, as I think unfortunately Paddy is done.
 

plugger66

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Just on Paddy, I was told by a friend who has a family member who works for the club, that Paddy is done but seeking more advise in an attempt to come back and play. All stuff we have already heard I know.

But he also said that if Paddy does somehow come back he won’t be playing in the forwardline. I guess playing the role that Battle is now.

Is a bit of a moot point though, as I think unfortunately Paddy is done.

Should have done that is the latest pre season but as you said moot point. If paddy is out for this long with that soft bump then he has no hope unfortunately.
 

StCicatriz

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Just on Paddy, I was told by a friend who has a family member who works for the club, that Paddy is done but seeking more advise in an attempt to come back and play. All stuff we have already heard I know.

But he also said that if Paddy does somehow come back he won’t be playing in the forwardline. I guess playing the role that Battle is now.

Is a bit of a moot point though, as I think unfortunately Paddy is done.
sad :-(

i think you've nailed the assessment there
 
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