Banter Who will be better in 2024? Carlton or Collingwood?

[Wosh]

Mainly here so we can enjoy the LOLs afterwards at the end of 2023, but also an interesting discussion point.

I’m in genuine two minds and can’t call it, but who do you see finishing higher in 2023?

Who is positioned better from a list/team perspective?

Let the games begin…

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[Corn Cobbers]

I don't know why he bothers sometimes, there's banter and there's making yourself look like a dickhead, everyone knows finals come after the home and away season, even Carlton supporters.

Well there is a point there ie only the Dogs have ever won the big one from outside the top 4, in fact the winner usually comes from the top 3

On SM-A225F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[doppleganger]

Well you've just typed it mate, we finished 5th then won two finals and GWS finished 6th and then won two finals.

Yep, in 2023 Carlton finished 5th.

It really aint that hard.

 

[doppleganger]

Well there is a point there ie only the Dogs have ever won the big one from outside the top 4, in fact the winner usually comes from the top 3

It really is pretty simple.

Dogs finished 7th, and a had a great September and were premiers. The only team to be premiers after finishing 7th.

So Bagger logic is to instead claim the Dogs finished 1st?

 

[Robertio]

Yep, in 2023 Carlton finished 5th.

It really aint that hard.

Yep, in 2023 Carlton finished 5th.

It really aint that hard.

We finished 5th after home and away and then won two finals, GWS finished 6th after home and away and then won two finals, so after the finals are you telling me that Port and Melbourne finished higher than Carlton and GWS?

 

[Worm4]

Yep, in 2023 Carlton finished 5th.

It really aint that hard.

The home and away season ended after round 24.
The season finished on grand final day. Carlton finished 3rd

 

[CCurnow3votes]

The H&A ladder determines the season placing. Currently top8 qualify for finals.

In 2016 Bulldogs finished 7th, Sydney 1st.
In 2023 Carlton finished 5th, Collingwood 1st.

Teams that qualify for finals then compete to be crowned premier.

In 2016 Bulldogs were premiers, they won it from 7th place.

In 2023 Collingwood were premiers, they won it from 1st.

Nobody cares about beaten finalists or re-ordering H&A positions!

Haha! Sure bud - keep painting

 

[CCurnow3votes]

It really is pretty simple.

Dogs finished 7th, and a had a great September and were premiers. The only team to be premiers after finishing 7th.

So Bagger logic is to instead claim the Dogs finished 1st?

Yes they did

And the team they beat finished second.

And so on.

See how it works?

 

[doppleganger]

We finished 5th after home and away and then won two finals, GWS finished 6th after home and away and then won two finals, so after the finals are you telling me that Port and Melbourne finished higher than Carlton and GWS?

I am saying your concept of trying to adapt a ladder concept to finals is flawed and not actually done in practice. Finals match-ups after wk1 dont even consider H&A position.

Port lost two finals, Sydney and StK lost one final.

Port didn't finish "lower" than them despite a "poorer" finals performance.

Port finished 3rd and didnt make the GF.
Carlton finished 5th and didnt make the GF.

Post finals you get a premier and a runner-up from the GF. They dont redo the H&A ladder.

If they updated the ladder, why do people say the Dogs won the premiership from 7th?

 

[doppleganger]

Yes they did

And the team they beat finished second.

And so on.

See how it works?

The only thing is that isnt how it works.

In 2016
Dogs were 7th and premiers.
Sydney were 1st (aka minor premiers) and then runners up.

Nobody goes back (apart from Carlton fans it appears) and fecking re-orders other finalists like Geelong, GWS and Hawthorn to create a new ladder.

So yeah, I reckon Fly might want to try and win the flag from 6th or 8th this year, do something no other team has done.

 

[Robertio]

I am saying your concept of trying to adapt a ladder concept to finals is flawed and not actually done in practice. Finals match-ups after wk1 dont even consider H&A position.

Port lost two finals, Sydney and StK lost one final.

Port didn't finish "lower" than them despite a "poorer" finals performance.

Port finished 3rd and didnt make the GF.
Carlton finished 5th and didnt make the GF.

Post finals you get a premier and a runner-up from the GF. They dont redo the H&A ladder.

If they updated the ladder, why do people say the Dogs won the premiership from 7th?

What pub are you at the beer must be great?

 

[Worm4]

What pub are you at the beer must be great?

Did we get a pick in the draft that reflected our 5th position or our final 3rd position ? There is your answer right there. I don't think he comprehends too well Robertio

 

[Robertio]

Did we get a pick in the draft that reflected our 5th position or our final 3rd position ? There is your answer right there. I don't think he comprehends too well Robertio

Bingo

 

[doppleganger]

The home and away season ended after round 24.

Yep that is where you are ranked against all teams 1 through 18.

In 2023, Carlton finished 5th.

The season finished on grand final day.

Correct, the conclusion of finals, the GF is when premier and runner up is decided.

Which is why can have a team like the Dogs finish 7th and be premier.

 

[Robertio]

Yep that is where you are ranked against all teams 1 through 18.

In 2023, Carlton finished 5th.

Correct, the conclusion of finals, the GF is when premier and runner up is decided.

Which is why can have a team like the Dogs finish 7th and be premier.

You haven't addressed why we were given pick 16 in last years draft yet.

 

[doppleganger]

Did we get a pick in the draft that reflected our 5th position or our final 3rd position ? There is your answer right there. I don't think he comprehends too well Robertio

LoL.

So you are talking about draft order not any official ladder.

Good to know that the ladder isnt the actual official historic rank of team performance.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Yep that is where you are ranked against all teams 1 through 18.

In 2023, Carlton finished 5th.

Correct, the conclusion of finals, the GF is when premier and runner up is decided.

Which is why can have a team like the Dogs finish 7th and be premier.

You are either thick or trying to troll.

The only thing you can factually say is Carlton finished 5th at the end of the home and away season.

At the end of the Home and Away: 5th
At the end of the finals: 3rd
At the end of the season: 3rd
At the end of 2023: 3rd

 

[Robertio]

LoL.

So you are talking about draft order not any official ladder.

Good to know that the ladder isnt the actual official historic rank of team performance.

You got done mate just give up.

 

[doppleganger]

You haven't addressed why we were given pick 16 in last years draft yet.

Pick 15 or 16?

Draft pick is a result of whatever equalisation policy the AFL has in place at the time.

Why are you talking draft picks and not the ladder?

AFL ladder has Carlton finishing 5th, pretty ******* clear cut.

Happy to wait for any Bagger to provide an updated ladder with Carlton finishing 3rd in 2023.

 

[Robertio]

Pick 15 or 16?

Draft pick is a result of whatever equalisation policy the AFL has in place at the time.

Why are you talking draft picks and not the ladder?

AFL ladder has Carlton finishing 5th, pretty ******* clear cut.

Happy to wait for any Bagger to provide an updated ladder with Carlton finishing 3rd in 2023.

Why did we get pick 16 and not Pt Adelaide?

 

[Arr0w]

More selective analysis and conclusions from a Pie supporter

 

[Robertio]

Wickpedia

Draft​

In the AFL draft, clubs receive picks based on the position in which they finish on the ladder during the season. The draft is held each year at the end of November, to allow the draftees to finish their school examinations before being drafted.[2]

Finish 3rd you get pick 16

 

[doppleganger]

Why did we get pick 16 and not Pt Adelaide?

Draft pick is a result of whatever equalisation policy the AFL has in place at the time.

Carlton finished 5th, and didn't make a GF so no premier or runners up acknowledgement for the Baggers in 2023.

It really is pretty straight forward.

It would be great to see any official AFL 2023 final ladder that has Carlton in 3rd. Surely have found one by now.

 

[Robertio]

Draft pick is a result of whatever equalisation policy the AFL has in place at the time.

Carlton finished 5th, and didn't make a GF so no premier or runners up acknowledgement for the Baggers in 2023.

It really is pretty straight forward.

It would be great to see any official AFL 2023 final ladder that has Carlton in 3rd. Surely have found one by now.

You didn't answer why Pt Adelaide didn't get pick 16 and we did.

 

[doppleganger]

You didn't answer why Pt Adelaide didn't get pick 16 and we did.

I did.

Still waiting on that ladder though.

 

[Fadge]

I did.

Still waiting on that ladder though.

I don't see why it's so confusing for them?

Just finish top after the home and away rounds, and win the flag, then there's no debate to be had...