Banter Who will be better in 2024? Carlton or Collingwood?

[Wosh]

Mainly here so we can enjoy the LOLs afterwards at the end of 2023, but also an interesting discussion point.

I’m in genuine two minds and can’t call it, but who do you see finishing higher in 2023?

Who is positioned better from a list/team perspective?

Let the games begin…

Mod Note: This is a thread for BANTER and giving and taking a bit of the mickey. Enter at your own risk!
However this does NOT mean name calling, personal abuse, injury trolling, swearing or gifs/memes with swear words in them. Keep it clean and above the belt.
Thank you.

 

[caloschwaby]

Outside of a convincing win against North, these Blues are one umpiring rort, multiple clubs pissing up 4+ goals at a time and an almost choke against Melbourne away from being 1-9

Of course they're far better than that, but you can never fool anyone again winning the March-April Premiership

 

[caloschwaby]

Whoa... Pies can be top 4 tonight if results go their way....

We win and either GWS lose to WB, or ESS lose to NM.

Woof woof woof!

 

[carlton_99]

Outside of a convincing win against North, these Blues are one umpiring rort, multiple clubs pissing up 4+ goals at a time and an almost choke against Melbourne away from being 1-9

Of course they're far better than that, but you can never fool anyone again winning the March-April Premiership

This might be an early contender for post of the year

 

[caloschwaby]

This might be an early contender for post of the year

Glady, what an honour. Can you submit it as an entry for me?

 

[carlton_99]

Glady, what an honour. Can you submit it as an entry for me?

It's so good I don't think it needs a manual entry

 

[Mr Meow]

This might be an early contender for post of the year

For a sophisticated poster such as yourself, it's fairly weak to target a post like that rather than dig into the mechanics of McKay's output in terms of Carlton's forward system.

As a Carlton supporter I thought you'd have some insight to my question.

 

[caloschwaby]

For a sophisticated poster such as yourself, it's fairly weak to target a post like that rather than dig into the mechanics of McKay's output in terms of Carlton's forward system.

As a Carlton supporter I thought you'd have some insight to my question.

They don't do insight, they do nourishment

Also pretty funny with how tame of a post it was, the only subjective part being the umpiring rort while everything else is just... how the games played out haha

 

[OniAu]

Dont count ya flags before they hatch blues! Trust me pies supporters know all about this. Not even until the last 13 seconds in last years GF did i feel we had a chance !

 

[carlton_99]

For a sophisticated poster such as yourself, it's fairly weak to target a post like that rather than dig into the mechanics of McKay's output in terms of Carlton's forward system.

As a Carlton supporter I thought you'd have some insight to my question.

I was targeting nobody - it's obviously just banter from two supporters of the teams this thread is about. If I caused you any sort of offence caloschwaby I apologise.

On McKay I don't base my judgement on just his goal assists. He has kicked 23.10 which is a significant improvement on last year and would be amongst the top goalkickers in the competition despite sharing a forward line with Curnow. He gets up the ground and provides us with incredibly valuable contested marking. Has had to pitch in the ruck at times and done well. If he is within 0.5 goals/goals assist per game of Cameron who I rate as one of the best players in the competition he is doing a lot right.

 

[caloschwaby]

I was targeting nobody - it's obviously just banter from two supporters of the teams this thread is about. If I caused you any sort of offence caloschwaby I apologise.

On McKay I don't base my judgement on just his goal assists. He has kicked 23.10 which is a significant improvement on last year and would be amongst the top goalkickers in the competition despite sharing a forward line with Curnow. He gets up the ground and provides us with incredibly valuable contested marking. Has had to pitch in the ruck at times and done well. If he is within 0.5 goals/goals assist per game of Cameron who I rate as one of the best players in the competition he is doing a lot right.

No offence ever taken on this great thread. The ebbs and flows of this game means I'll have to cop it as hard back one day.

But today is not that day

 

[carlton_99]

Harry McKay

10

Harry Mckay

Age

26

Ht

200cm

Wt

106kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.9

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

2.4

2star

M

5.5

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.4

5star

D

6.6

1star

K

4.6

2star

HB

2.0

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.4

2star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.4

4star

T

0.8

3star

G

2.0

5star

is the following amongst key forwards in 2024:

• Player rating - 11.82 per game (#4)
• Disposals per game - 14.0 per game (#5)
• Contested possessions - 7.6 per game (#2)
• Marks - 7.7 per game (#1)
• Contested marks - 2.8 per game (#1)
• Goals - 2.4 per game (#8)
• Tackles - 3.3 per game (#3)
• Score involvements - 6.5 per game (#9)

 

[Mr Meow]

I was targeting nobody - it's obviously just banter from two supporters of the teams this thread is about. If I caused you any sort of offence caloschwaby I apologise.

On McKay I don't base my judgement on just his goal assists. He has kicked 23.10 which is a significant improvement on last year and would be amongst the top goalkickers in the competition despite sharing a forward line with Curnow. He gets up the ground and provides us with incredibly valuable contested marking. Has had to pitch in the ruck at times and done well. If he is within 0.5 goals/goals assist per game of Cameron who I rate as one of the best players in the competition he is doing a lot right.

I appreciate that and accept it.

I don't judge McKay just on goal assists either. It's a little curious that he and Curnow have just 10 goal assists between them after 10 rounds when everything revolves around them. Do they not look for each other?

I get that he pushes up the ground a lot but again, 6.5 score involvements a game and 2.8 goals/assists is a fraction below elite, rather than certifiably elite for that type of player. Kyle Langford has more goals/assists and score involvements per game with nowhere near the recognition. Naughton too.

Anyway, certainly a good player having a strong season but the "AA lock" talk by a few is a little over the top, that's all.

 

[Mr Meow]

Harry McKay is the following amongst key forwards in 2024:

• Player rating - 11.82 per game (#4)
• Disposals per game - 14.0 per game (#5)
• Contested possessions - 7.6 per game (#2)
• Marks - 7.7 per game (#1)
• Contested marks - 2.8 per game (#1)
• Goals - 2.4 per game (#8)
• Tackles - 3.3 per game (#3)
• Score involvements - 6.5 per game (#9)

Combined goals/assists is a better metric for forwards/midfielders who rotate forward.

Curnow, Waterman, Hogan, Ben King, Langford, Shannon Neale (2 size sample ), Cameron, Naughton, O.Henry, Rankine, Stengle, Higgins, Walker, Guelfi (3 game sample), Bontempelli and Greene are the players who average more combined goals/assists than McKay this season. I have to admit this did surprise me. 16 players. 14 if you remove the ones with less than 5 games.

 

[Aphrodite]

they've allm gone to cash in their brown paper bags

We recycle

 

[manicpie]

We recycle

You better be nice to me if we lose to Adelaide today. But then again, we did hammer this thread last night

 

[manicpie]

Combined goals/assists is a better metric for forwards/midfielders who rotate forward.

Curnow, Waterman, Hogan, Ben King, Langford, Shannon Neale (2 size sample ), Cameron, Naughton, O.Henry, Rankine, Stengle, Higgins, Walker, Guelfi (3 game sample), Bontempelli and Greene are the players who average more combined goals/assists than McKay this season. I have to admit this did surprise me. 16 players. 14 if you remove the ones with less than 5 games.

Carlton need to move Curnow to High HF because his work up the ground is alsmost as good as his spot at FF. Play Harry out the square and make the rest of them lower their eyes. This should bring their smalls into the game and make them less predictable. But don't tell Voss that

 

[carlton_99]

Carlton need to move Curnow to High HF because his work up the ground is alsmost as good as his spot at FF. Play Harry out the square and make the rest of them lower their eyes. This should bring their smalls into the game and make them less predictable. But don't tell Voss that

We have done this at times but McKay is the better forward up the ground because of his contested marking prowess. The issue is no matter who plays up the ground (Curnow or McKay) their main option i50 is always going to be Curnow or McKay. That's because atm we don't have any mid-sized leading forwards playing to provide us with alternative options. Defence piles on the key forward i50 and it leaves us with nothing

 

[Aphrodite]

You better be nice to me if we lose to Adelaide today. But then again, we did hammer this thread last night

All in good fun


BTW just another 'dead rubber' for us last night.

 

[Corn Cobbers]

Dont count ya flags before they hatch blues! Trust me pies supporters know all about this. Not even until the last 13 seconds in last years GF did i feel we had a chance !

3 seconds for me, and I still have nightmares, it's not all "beer and skittles" at the top

On SM-A225F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[manicpie]

We have done this at times but McKay is the better forward up the ground because of his contested marking prowess. The issue is no matter who plays up the ground (Curnow or McKay) their main option i50 is always going to be Curnow or McKay. That's because atm we don't have any mid-sized leading forwards playing to provide us with alternative options. Defence piles on the key forward i50 and it leaves us with nothing

As crazy as it might sound but you have a bit of a conundrum. You have 2 KF who both demand the ball too much and it makes your forward 50 entries too easy to predict. Geelong do it the smart way and have JC further up the ground most of the game. Unless something changes, you will get picked off by the good sides when it really counts

 

[carlton_99]

As crazy as it might sound but you have a bit of a conundrum. You have 2 KF who both demand the ball too much and it makes your forward 50 entries too easy to predict. Geelong do it the smart way and have JC further up the ground most of the game. Unless something changes, you will get picked off by the good sides when it really counts

I don't think it is a conundrum personally because we have seen it work many times. The issue is we need the supporting players around them to fulfil their role and make the defence respect them. No coincidence that our best entries i50 came last week against the Dees when Martin was in the team - defence has to respect him as he provides an alternative option to Curnow/McKay. Even Cottrell has been pretty good in that area this year giving us another leading option but now has some sort of stress-related injury.

Then you look at the smalls and besides Owies, the other two (Durdin and Fantasia) have been complete non-factors. They don't lead, they don't provide enough pressure locking the ball i50 and their defenders don't respect them which just further clutters the space for the KPFs.

 

[Robertio]

For a sophisticated poster such as yourself, it's fairly weak to target a post like that rather than dig into the mechanics of McKay's output in terms of Carlton's forward system.

As a Carlton supporter I thought you'd have some insight to my question.

Most Carlton supporters on here don't take any notice of you mate.

 

[Robertio]

Dont count ya flags before they hatch blues! Trust me pies supporters know all about this. Not even until the last 13 seconds in last years GF did i feel we had a chance !

No Carlton poster has said we're going to win the flag.

 

[OniAu]

No Carlton poster has said we're going to win the flag.

ahhhh , disagree

 

[Robertio]

ahhhh , disagree

I haven't seen anyone in here saying we are going to win the flag.