Will/Should clubs raid Richmond's list?

[Juddernaut08]

After Buddy left, it helped the Hawks keep their list together.

We strategically traded Savage to the Saints and Anderson to North, not wanting to see either player go based on talent.

Cheeney was squeezed out. Lack of opportunity. But highly respected and valued.

The biggest loss due to salary cap was probably only Suckling.

Brad Hill going home to W.A has really hurt, but by then the window was closed.

The Martin contract at Richmond is probably not unlike what it would have cost the Hawks to keep Buddy if he chose to stay.

Thing is, Hawthorn had a lot more talent across the board, and needed it as it was a stronger era (peaking Hawks, peaking Sydney, still great Cats).

Who else are Richmond going to pay? They've built an amazing system around a handful of stars and good, honest roleplayers. They need to keep those stars as it's key part of the engine that makes it work.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

They're a bit like Collingwood (or most premiership sides) in 2010/11, our B graders were made to look better because of our A graders, the best example of this is Des Headland, looked an A grade mid whilst surrounded by Brownlow medalists at the Lions but couldn't cut the mustard in a s**t team.

 

[gavaniacono]

You're arguing definitions.

You used the word roleplayer incorectly like most. What you meant to say was less talented.

 

[archibald]

If I was looking at Richmond players from another clubs perspective I would be looking hard at Menadue. Elite skills, two way runner and quick.

Many other players in the 15-30 range could be worth something to some clubs, but look more capable/skilled than they probably are due to the structure in place. For the first time in a long time these players are being developed properly and are reaching close to full potential rather than what happened to players of yesteryear such as Tambling. Placed in a different environment and those deficiencies could be rather exposed.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

Thing is, Hawthorn had a lot more talent across the board, and needed it as it was a stronger era (peaking Hawks, peaking Sydney, still great Cats).

Who else are Richmond going to pay? They've built an amazing system around a handful of stars and good, honest roleplayers. They need to keep those stars as it's key part of the engine that makes it work.

Exactamundo!!

Their second tier players are no better than most clubs, it's Dusty/Rance/Jack and Cotchin that makes them a very good team, not many clubs have 4 serious A graders in their prime.

 

[Jedi Tiger]

Snake_Baker alt account...

That’s a bit below the belt - just knocking that BS rhetoric out of the way early so the thread can enjoy some genuine discussion. Maybe I need to learn how to do those sarcastic smilie things on the phone...

 

[MightyDons4]

I’d say Stengle and Menadue are the pick of our young players not getting a game at the moment. Both rated highly internally just about breaking into the side and cementing a spot. If they’re not getting games by the end of the year they could be gettable

Those are the two I'd be looking at, dangerous players.

 

[Juddernaut08]

You used the word roleplayer incorectly like most. What you meant to say was less talented.

Alright, let's get into it then. Words have most commonly accepted definitions, sometimes multiple. In general conversation without a specific context, roleplayer has a certain meaning.

Words also take on a different meaning depending on the context of a discussion or conversation. There are plenty of words used in sports that are commonly accepted to have a generally agreed meaning. For roleplayer, this means someone who is not one of the most talented players, but who still contributes by doing his part in the system.

So no, while they're less talented, that's not as specific or accurate as calling them roleplayers, which is what they are.

In any case, this is a footy forum and you knew what I meant. Take your wanky s**t elsewhere.

 

[Luv_our_club]

Exactamundo!!

Their second tier players are no better than most clubs, it's Dusty/Rance/Jack and Cotchin that makes them a very good team, not many clubs have 4 serious A graders in their prime.

I have the opposite view.

I think the tigers have depth in players that have speed, size, and character, and who do not lack skill.

They might not be as unique as the players in the strong teams of the Cats or Hawks and others, but what they have in common can be combined to become a force.

The run and the strength of the Tiges against my Hawks on Sunday was very noticeable, including their youngsters.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

I have the opposite view.

I think the tigers have depth in players that have speed, size, and character, and who do not lack skill.

They might not be as unique as the players in the strong teams of the Cats or Hawks and others, but what they have in common can be combined to become a force.

The run and the strength of the Tiges against my Hawks on Sunday was very noticeable, including their youngsters.

Go back a little further and I think the Hawks sides of the eighties were rated bit like the Tigers. Very strong team with a purpose, but a lot of what we call role players today. Retrospectively the talent is acknowleded, and should be, and but not so much then. I get it wasn't one playing group when they were up for so long, but I see some similarity.

 

[Thrillho_]

So you'd trade a genuine superstar and someone that may become the clubs greatest ever player for 3 kids that havent played a AFL game?
I wouldnt do it.
I would only trade Dusty for Danger, Fyfe or Buddy (if he was 3 years younger)

All three of those players would need some stake knives thrown in as well for me to trade Dusty.

There is currently nobody in the league I’d swap dusty 1 for 1

 

[Grrr]

Menadue will play sooner than later, no chance that he will be left for easy pickings.

 

[Mofra]

The Bulldogs don't really have a legitimate quick small forward so yes we absolutely should be looking at a list that just won the flag on the back of a plethora of tough, fast defensive-minded small forwards that smarm the opposition. 100% yes.

 

[gavaniacono]

Alright, let's get into it then. Words have most commonly accepted definitions, sometimes multiple. In general conversation without a specific context, roleplayer has a certain meaning.

Words also take on a different meaning depending on the context of a discussion or conversation. There are plenty of words used in sports that are commonly accepted to have a generally agreed meaning. For roleplayer, this means someone who is not one of the most talented players, but who still contributes by doing his part in the system.

So no, while they're less talented, that's not as specific or accurate as calling them roleplayers, which is what they are.

In any case, this is a footy forum and you knew what I meant. Take your wanky s**t elsewhere.

Yes indeed I knew what you meant. Before you did.

 

[Luv_our_club]

Go back a little further and I think the Hawks sides of the eighties were rated bit like the Tigers. Very strong team with a purpose, but a lot of what we call role players today. Retrospectively the talent is acknowleded, and should be, and but not so much then. I get it wasn't one playing group when they were up for so long, but I see some similarity.

I will have to think about that.

My first thought is that the stars in that team were some of the best-of-all-timers, and that may have made some others look lesser in comparison, a distortion.

For example, you wouldn't call Mathews, Greene, Wallace, Loveridge, Buckenarra, Langford, Mew, Ayres, B. Allen, Jarman, Collins, Pritchard, P. Dear, Hudson, Dipper, Tuck, Dermott, Dunstall, Platten, Greene, Tony Hall, role players. This is almost a full team.

You might say the role players were......Greg Dear, Curran, Whitman, Morrisey, Schwab, Jenke, Maguiness, Condon, Anderson, Kennedy Jnr, Abbott, Morris, Russo, Gowers, Lawrence. But they were bloody brilliant role players, especially Kennedy Jnr, and most of these guys are Multiple premiership players. These names would have been best 18 in any team across the competition.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Yes indeed I knew what you meant. Before you did.

run along now, you've been embarrassed enough for one day.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

So you'd trade a genuine superstar and someone that may become the clubs greatest ever player for 3 kids that havent played a AFL game?
I wouldnt do it.
I would only trade Dusty for Danger, Fyfe or Buddy (if he was 3 years younger)

Wouldn’t make sense from a cultural perspective either. You’d be wanting three top 3 picks who could just as easily turn into Boyd, McCartin and Schache as Kelly, Petracca, and Oliver

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

I will have to think about that.

My first thought is that the stars in that team were some of the best-of-all-timers, and that may have made some others look lesser in comparison, a distortion.

For example, you wouldn't call Mathews, Greene, Wallace, Loveridge, Buckenarra, Langford, Mew, Ayres, B. Allen, Jarman, Collins, Pritchard, P. Dear, Hudson, Dipper, Tuck, Dermott, Dunstall, Platten, Greene, Tony Hall, role players. This is almost a full team.

You might say the role players were......Greg Dear, Curran, Whitman, Morrisey, Schwab, Jenke, Maguiness, Condon, Anderson, Kennedy Jnr, Abbott, Morris, Russo, Gowers, Lawrence. But they were bloody brilliant role players, especially Kennedy Jnr, and most of these guys are Multiple premiership players. These names would have been best 18 in any team across the competition.

It is just my recollection. Certainly Tuck, Matthews, Dermot, Dunstall and Platten yes. Hudson came back in the 70's from memory?. I do recall commentators appropiately gushing over Russell Greene so maybe. Dipper I guess possibly, as a noticeable and unique player.

I would have said Ayres, Mews and Pritchard were criminally underrated at the time. It's all perception though, and I was reading mostly SA press then, admittedly. Probably boasted my perception of the recognition of Platten.

 

[Rance2Mewtwo]

There's no point acquiring a motorbike if you only have a forklift licence.

 

[kranky al]

The Hawks already took Vickery off us. Surely that's enough?

So morally you pretty much owe them dusty

 

[juss]

To reverse the question...

After winning the flag, many of those players might demand pay rises which would stretch the salary cap of Richmond.

How many will Richmond have to trade?

We saw the Hawks lose McGlynn and Kennedy, Cats lost Christensen and Varcoe, Swans lost Mumford and T Mitchell, Bulldogs lost Hamling and Stringer etc

Miles/C Ellis could leave for more opportunity, one of Butler/Castagna/Bolton/Stengle
Possibly one of Macintosh, Menadue, Markov.

 

[Dr Tigris]

The tigers list contains a lot of similar players (esp small forwards). That is because our game plan is based around constant pressure form them. So we need a lot of a similar style of player to keep playing that style - that won a premiership. What looks like bonus extras for other clubs to sweep up, isn't. If we have injuries we need depth in that style of player.

Guys like Menadue and Markov are quality, but are fighting with Houli etc for a spot. they should be getable. I reckon those guys would add value to a lot of sides immediately. But they also know a position will open up in the next few years.

Miles is an absolute AFL quality player, struggling because he is up against A graders, and very good versatile B+ graders. In many teams he would be central.

So, there are a few players that could be raided. But probably less than you'd think. Wait a couple of years and I reckon there might be too many players worth the first team for the 22. Then a few might want out to get a game.

 

[blaisee]

Players will get squeezed out they always do,

but it is interesting that Miles and Lloyd signed contract for this year knowing that if everyone is fit, they would not play much.

Looks like a happy workplace ATM

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

Rance because we need a 6th KPD

You guys need a win first

 

[jreesosb]

That’s a bit below the belt - just knocking that BS rhetoric out of the way early so the thread can enjoy some genuine discussion. Maybe I need to learn how to do those sarcastic smilie things on the phone...

unexplainable sorcery Love it