You realise the difference with restricted and unrestricted free agents? Hawks realised the likely impact on salary cap and said pass.
Recommitted Tim Kelly [exploring trade options home to West Coast]
- Thread starter Warhorse
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Why do we need 100 pages to bicker back and forth?
Really it boils down to 2-3 scenarios:
1) Kelly decides he'd like to stay at Geelong. So he stays.
2) Kelly tells Geelong (& WCE) he would like a trade back home. West Coast offer a pick between 15-20. Firstly, because that's all they have (or are likely to have). Secondly, because that's what they think his value is. As such, Geelong either decides (a) Pick 15-20 isn't enough, so he stays another year at least, or (b) Pick 15-20 is satisfactory, or is the best they can achieve in the circumstances, and agrees on a trade.
Fans on both sides can rant and rave to our heart's content about what his value is or isn't; but if we feel so aggrieved that they wouldn't be getting enough for said player, or are paying too much for said player, then have confidence that your respective list manager will have the same view in which case the deal doesn't happen.
If fans on the other side of the fence seem delusional in their expectations, who cares? It isn't going to impact whether the deal happens or what the trade looks like. The list managers will be having much more constructive and sensible conversations than we are.
Really it boils down to 2-3 scenarios:
1) Kelly decides he'd like to stay at Geelong. So he stays.
2) Kelly tells Geelong (& WCE) he would like a trade back home. West Coast offer a pick between 15-20. Firstly, because that's all they have (or are likely to have). Secondly, because that's what they think his value is. As such, Geelong either decides (a) Pick 15-20 isn't enough, so he stays another year at least, or (b) Pick 15-20 is satisfactory, or is the best they can achieve in the circumstances, and agrees on a trade.
Fans on both sides can rant and rave to our heart's content about what his value is or isn't; but if we feel so aggrieved that they wouldn't be getting enough for said player, or are paying too much for said player, then have confidence that your respective list manager will have the same view in which case the deal doesn't happen.
If fans on the other side of the fence seem delusional in their expectations, who cares? It isn't going to impact whether the deal happens or what the trade looks like. The list managers will be having much more constructive and sensible conversations than we are.
- May 5, 2006
- 62,726
- 70,017
- AFL Club
- West Coast
Under no circumstances ever will this happen.
The draft currency we have and a history of similar trades happening in the past don't apply to Geelong players.
What I love about threads like this is how easily posters confuse the opinion and thoughts (fantasy) of fans for the opinion and thoughts (reality) of an AFL Football club, so start making value judgements on the AFL club in question. Come trade time, all will be revealed. Geelong give the impression to be reasonable to trade with, and have a history of looking after player interests. I have no idea what will happen, but I think it is safe to assume that Geelong wont hold Kelly to ransom if he genuinely wants to leave while contracted, nor will they be ridiculous in what they expect from WCE if that was the case. I know what Brian Cook said, but I thought it more for the consumption of fans and media than a warning message to Kelly or an opposing AFL club.
My gut feel? Kelly wants to stay and see out his contract at least. If family situation makes than impossible (and totally understandable if so), I expect most Geelong fans to be disappointed: a) we traded him, and b) what we traded him for.
As an aside, didn't WCE do well with their pick swap with GCS last year! The perils of trading future picks!
My gut feel? Kelly wants to stay and see out his contract at least. If family situation makes than impossible (and totally understandable if so), I expect most Geelong fans to be disappointed: a) we traded him, and b) what we traded him for.
As an aside, didn't WCE do well with their pick swap with GCS last year! The perils of trading future picks!
Last edited:
- May 5, 2006
- 62,726
- 70,017
- AFL Club
- West Coast
Wow a sensible Geelong fan.
My gut feel is that Kelly doesn't want to leave the Cats t all, and it's only having a young family and being on the opposite side of the country that is weighing on his mind. Having WC/Freo interested and willing to offer more than draftee salary would be a factor, but if he plays out his career with Geelong he'll get a big pay rise from 2020 anyway.
Many WC fans weren't happy with last year's pick swap trade as we thought we'd be about mid table and scraping into the 8 at best, but given our first pick will be 17 or 18 now it has turned out very well. It's the risk you run, though. St Kilda traded pick 10 and ended up with 23 and 36 the same year and 7 the following year. Big win. Had the wheels fallen off this year (think Adelaide, their list is just as good as ours) we'd have given away a top 10 pick.
My gut feel is that Kelly doesn't want to leave the Cats t all, and it's only having a young family and being on the opposite side of the country that is weighing on his mind. Having WC/Freo interested and willing to offer more than draftee salary would be a factor, but if he plays out his career with Geelong he'll get a big pay rise from 2020 anyway.
Many WC fans weren't happy with last year's pick swap trade as we thought we'd be about mid table and scraping into the 8 at best, but given our first pick will be 17 or 18 now it has turned out very well. It's the risk you run, though. St Kilda traded pick 10 and ended up with 23 and 36 the same year and 7 the following year. Big win. Had the wheels fallen off this year (think Adelaide, their list is just as good as ours) we'd have given away a top 10 pick.
Interesting, that trading for future picks can be very risking either way.
I think we should introduce a NBA like protection of first round picks.
- May 5, 2006
- 62,726
- 70,017
- AFL Club
- West Coast
What the AFL should introduce is trading of FA compo picks as they come.
I.e. we have a band 1 compo pick. To us it's pick 18 or 19. To Geelong it's pick 12. To Carlton it's pick 2. Etc.
Haha
Well to be fair, kelly is 6 years older than them.
But using your logic. Are you saying to Geelong fans, ragutolea is worth bugger all and way less than kelly given kelly has shown more? Who would Geelong fans want more to stay? Think it’s obvious.
What are you willing to give up Nakia for? I mean he isn’t really a top 10 pick, is he? Based on proven talent he is about a 3rd rounder. Or that won’t do?
Apply bit of logic to your own arguement. Once Kelly’s wife makes it public she isn’t coming back, s**t will hit the fan.
And what do u think the playing group will think of its club treating a player in such circumstances as a commodity given a good trade will be offered either way?
Should have used your pick on Tom McCartin. Right under your nose, ignored him twice and will be a 200 game player.
West Coast trade their first compo to the Blues which makes it pick 2 then get Blues 2019 first round pick.
As we are in the Kelly thread, Eagles send the Blues 2019 first round pick and pick 20 for Kelly and pick 11.
- Feb 15, 2006
- 5,524
- 3,438
- AFL Club
- Geelong
- Other Teams
- Sunderland & Penrith
Just wont happen
seriously, don't put logic, commonsense, or fact into it. It destroys something fun.
West Coast don't need Kelly as last night has shown. Don't think you'll be getting those 2 X first rounders cats fans 
- Feb 15, 2006
- 5,524
- 3,438
- AFL Club
- Geelong
- Other Teams
- Sunderland & Penrith
I think that is something we can all agree on Kelly stays and Cats have pick 11West Coast don't need Kelly as last night has shown. Don't think you'll be getting those 2 X first rounders cats fans
- May 5, 2006
- 62,726
- 70,017
- AFL Club
- West Coast
West Coast don't need Kelly as last night has shown. Don't think you'll be getting those 2 X first rounders cats fans
If we lose next week that will change. BigFooty's own version of one week at a time.
It doesn't work like that.
Read what I was responding to.
- May 5, 2006
- 62,726
- 70,017
- AFL Club
- West Coast
I think he was responding to my suggestion that it should work like that.
Hawthorn got pick 19 for Franklin. That's the famous example. Would've been fairer if they could trade that to a team with pick 5 so they get pick 5 and 6 and Hawthorn get say pick 5 again the following year.
Pure_Ownage
TheBrownDog
West Coast fan delusion: Geelong are going to trade Kelly for pick 15-20 this year because they have some non existent moral obligation to and because it suits West Coast.
- Apr 3, 2006
- 33,533
- 11,951
- AFL Club
- Geelong
Give it a rest would you?
- May 5, 2006
- 62,726
- 70,017
- AFL Club
- West Coast
LOL moral obligation? Where do you come up with this stuff?
Geelong have no obligation to anyone. Trade Kelly, don't trade Kelly - you're not going breaking any rules either way. The Blues didn't trade Gibbs in 2016, you don't have to do anything. Hawthorn traded Hill, Brisbane traded Beams, Carlton traded Gibbs last year. All family/relocation trades. Hell Geelong traded Ablett back in and he's 95.
History says that if Geelong do trade Kelly because of family issues that the trade value will be a lot lower than Geelong fans think it will be. He's not so good that clubs would trade a top 5/10 pick or multiple first round picks to get him, and our first pick is currently 20, and could be 18/19. It's a s**t outcome for Geelong - we get that - which is why the club will do everything they can to convince him not to seek a trade.
- May 14, 2012
- 8,177
- 12,896
- AFL Club
- Geelong
Collingwood and Carlton both got overs for trading out Beams and Gibbs. I reckon Geelong would oblige a trade request for family reasons but are the eagles prepared to pay overs to get him.
- May 5, 2006
- 62,726
- 70,017
- AFL Club
- West Coast
Find me a Collingwood fan that thought they got overs in 2014. Or a Geelong fan who was happy with pick 21 for Christensen or using that pick 21 to get Rhys Stanley. Fans are rarely happy at the time their clubs trade out a player. Except Freo with Weller.
Adelaide I agree paid overs but they had multiple first round picks after losing Lever. Ended up being 10, 16 last year + 25 this year for Gibbs + 19 & 37 this year. Gibbs is a better player than Kelly, though 4 years older at the time of trade.
- May 14, 2012
- 8,177
- 12,896
- AFL Club
- Geelong
Ask a pies fan now, would they prefer Beams or DeGoey, Crisp and Greenwood.
- May 5, 2006
- 62,726
- 70,017
- AFL Club
- West Coast
Then why do you care what pick(s) we give you for Kelly? It's not really our fault if we give you two first round picks and you draft another Thurlow and Lang now is it?
