Delisted Jack Martin [Selected by Carlton in the PSD]

[Blackas87]

How many players have been picked up by there original clubs in the PSD? I wouldn't think it would be many.

When was the last time a club didn’t get trade done and then select that player in the PSD? It doesn’t happen.

The pre-season draft has really always been for players that the original club doesn’t want.

Nick Stevens the last player I can think of that didn’t get a trade done to his destination club of Collingwood, he the entered the draft and got selected by Carlton at pick 1. This time around GC has pick 1.

 

[Jirik13]

Martin has stated what he wants.

No doubt, Martin nominated Carton and after failed trade his agent expressed that he still wants to go to Carlton. That necessarily does not mean that it's still the same case right now. He had 2 weeks to think about it. Is he happy how Carlton handled the trade? It's not like Suns asked crazy overs. Is he willing to take a risk and nominate to PSD or just to re-sign with Suns for 1 year and become free agent? Would he prefer picks settlement right now? I have no idea but it is amusing how Carlton fans know for sure what Martin thinks right now.

That Marin is willing to talk to Suns does indicate that there is a possibility he could stay. I personally think he is gone and my guess is that the clubs do picks swap.

 

[Robertio]

When was the last time a club didn’t get trade done and then select that player in the PSD? It doesn’t happen.

The pre-season draft has really always been for players that the original club doesn’t want.

Nick Stevens the last player I can think of that didn’t get a trade done to his destination club of Collingwood, he the entered the draft and got selected by Carlton at pick 1. This time around GC has pick 1.

Nick Stevens made an agreement and trained with Carlton before the draft, as he didn't think he would make it to Collingwood who had pick 15. It's going to be interesting whether Gold Coast redraft Martin which they have the right to.

 

[Rich01]

The evidence suggests that threats to redraft a player provides no negotiating benefit in the modern game.

Let me explain it to you in simple terms. It’s not that hard to understand if you use simple logic.

If you lose a benefit of negotiation (ie can’t redraft your own player), it gives you a weaker hand when negotiating a trade for that uncontracted player.
Not a stronger hand, or even the same hand. A weaker hand.

 

[Monkey King]

I don’t 100% get your core values.

Most seem to understand that a player’s decision to sign a contract means something and that an out of contract player who decides to move elsewhere means something else.

I think the way GCS have handled Martin is a sign of dysfunction. Carlton did this crap with Bret Thornton once when they were a poorly run basket case. I don’t deny they both had/have the right to do so under the rules; that doesn’t make it fair or sensible though.

 

[Jeremias]

Pick 9 for martin+ 15 is overs ? (That trade offer was said by GC list manager after the deadline )

This is not correct. The deal as confirmed by the Suns list manager involved a second round pick also making its way to the Suns.

All good if you get him for nothing but short term gain as you get martin but the next time a quality player goes to victoria they will look at carlton as the team who fu**s around and doesnt get the trade done .

Are you sure about that?

If that were indeed the case I would suggest it is very odd for Papley's manager to have come out post trade week commending Carlton and their dealings.

I reckon it's more likely you're simply talking complete and utter rubbish.

Where does he not want be?

He doesn't want to be a Gold Coast listed footballer. Very strange you feel the need to be so obtuse in discussions here, it's pretty clear what everyone is talking about, and what Martin's stance has been.

He is better off signing a one year deal becoming a free agent next year than entering the draft and being selected by the Gold Coast on a longer term deal.

Signing a contract with the Suns isn't anywhere close to what would be the best course of action to take if he remains set on playing for Carlton in 2020.

Clearly the best thing to do is make it clear to the Suns and the Demons that he doesn't want to play for them. If he does that, the path to Carlton is clear. Neither club will take a player who doesn't want to be there.

No doubt, Martin nominated Carton and after failed trade his agent expressed that he still wants to go to Carlton. That necessarily does not mean that it's still the same case right now. He had 2 weeks to think about it. Is he happy how Carlton handled the trade? It's not like Suns asked crazy overs. Is he willing to take a risk and nominate to PSD or just to re-sign with Suns for 1 year and become free agent? Would he prefer picks settlement right now? I have no idea but it is amusing how Carlton fans know for sure what Martin thinks right now.

That Marin is willing to talk to Suns does indicate that there is a possibility he could stay. I personally think he is gone and my guess is that the clubs do picks swap.

Clutching at straws.

Martin's manager spoke post-trade week and couldn't have been much clearer that he remained focused on playing for Carlton in 2020. That should indicate he's perfectly happy with Carlton and how they approached things during the exchange period, even though a deal didn't get done.

You're reading far too much into a regulation meeting which most would reasonably expect to take place. That doesn't mean he's warmed to the Suns, nor does it mean he's cooled on Carlton. It is completely naive to suggest otherwise.

The Suns had a month or so to change his mind post the trade period. Of course they're going to meet with him, as too are Melbourne, in some capacity.

 

[Monkey King]

Let me explain it to you in simple terms. It’s not that hard to understand if you use simple logic.

If you lose a benefit of negotiation (ie can’t redraft your own player), it gives you a weaker hand when negotiating a trade for that uncontracted player.
Not a stronger hand, or even the same hand. A weaker hand.

Lol. Let me explain it to you ... you have a hypothesis that is not supported by the evidence. The validity of our ideas isn’t tested by how neat and tidy they sound on paper. I can’t think of a single instance over the last decade where a club’s ability to redraft a player had any influence on a trade negotiation; even with Martin.

 

[Blackas87]

Most seem to understand that a player’s decision to sign a contract means something and that an out of contract player who decides to move elsewhere means something else.

I think the way GCS have handled Martin is a sign of dysfunction. Carlton did this crap with Bret Thornton once when they were a poorly run basket case. I don’t deny they both had/have the right to do so under the rules; that doesn’t make it fair or sensible though.

Agree it may not be sensible, but I’m not sure we 100% know the all the circumstances.

If Martin was depressed and struggling on the Gold Coast I’m sure the Suns wouldn’t take him back and would of traded him. But he’s still up there by choice at the moment and been enjoying himself with his friends and the life he has up there outside of football, last night out with Suns teammates.

I think (I don’t know) he just wants to play at a more competitive club such as Lynch and May wanted, unfortunately for Jack a traded to the destination he wanted didn’t get done and he’s not a free agent. One more year and he can be a free agent.

If Jack is going to be a cancer on the club they wouldn’t keep him, they know and I’m fairly sure he wouldn’t be.

 

[Warhorse]

Melbourne will take Martin. And so they should perfect fit for there list

 

[Blackas87]

He doesn't want to be a Gold Coast listed footballer. Very strange you feel the need to be so obtuse in discussions here, it's pretty clear what everyone is talking about, and what Martin's stance has been.



Signing a contract with the Suns isn't anywhere close to what would be the best course of action to take if he remains set on playing for Carlton in 2020.

Clearly the best thing to do is make it clear to the Suns and the Demons that he doesn't want to play for them. If he does that, the path to Carlton is clear. Neither club will take a player who doesn't want to be there.

I’d like to know why he doesn’t want to be a Gold Coast listed player? I think it’s just because he wants to be at a more competitive club. Same as Lynch and May last year. I don’t think anyone has a bad relationship with the club.

I don’t get why the Suns wouldn’t make a trade if they if they weren’t prepared to take him in the draft, why lose a guy for nothing?

 

[TheSunGod]

Agree it may not be sensible, but I’m not sure we 100% know the all the circumstances.

If Martin was depressed and struggling on the Gold Coast I’m sure the Suns wouldn’t take him back and would of traded him. But he’s still up there by choice at the moment and been enjoying himself with his friends and the life he has up there outside of football, last night out with Suns teammates.

I think (I don’t know) he just wants to play at a more competitive club such as Lynch and May wanted, unfortunately for Jack a traded to the destination he wanted didn’t get done and he’s not a free agent. One more year and he can be a free agent.

If Jack is going to be a cancer on the club they wouldn’t keep him, they know and I’m fairly sure he wouldn’t be.

If he wanted to play for a club that wins more games, Carlton seems a strange choice. They were behind the Suns on the ladder for most of the year and are a Patrick Cripps injury away from being down the bottom again?

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

I’d like to know why he doesn’t want to be a Gold Coast listed player? I think it’s just because he wants to be at a more competitive club. Same as Lynch and May last year. I don’t think anyone has a bad relationship with the club.

I don’t get why the Suns wouldn’t make a trade if they if they weren’t prepared to take him in the draft, why lose a guy for nothing?

He’s requested a trade 2 years in a row now. He doesn’t want to be there. Who cares about the reasons why?

 

[Blackas87]

He’s requested a trade 2 years in a row now. He doesn’t want to be there. Who cares about the reasons why?

The Suns would care.

If he wants to play at a more competitive club, the Suns will back themselves that with their young talent they’ll change Jack’s mind over the next 12 months.

If he hates the coach and is getting bullied by the Gold Coast staff and he’s depressed at the club then I think they’d see it’s reasonable to move him on.

 

[Jeremias]

I’d like to know why he doesn’t want to be a Gold Coast listed player? I think it’s just because he wants to be at a more competitive club. Same as Lynch and May last year. I don’t think anyone has a bad relationship with the club.

It would be interesting to know, but ultimately it doesn't really matter.

He doesn't want to be there, and has wanted out for 2 years in a row now.

I don’t get why the Suns wouldn’t make a trade if they if they weren’t prepared to take him in the draft, why lose a guy for nothing?

As has been widely reported, they wanted to take a stand against players leaving their club, and the perception that 17 other clubs could simply feed off their carcass.

They just picked the wrong player to do it with, given he's almost certain to end up where he wanted to go anyway.

 

[Rich01]

Lol. Let me explain it to you ... you have a hypothesis that is not supported by the evidence. The validity of our ideas isn’t tested by how neat and tidy they sound on paper. I can’t think of a single instance over the last decade where a club’s ability to redraft a player had any influence on a trade negotiation; even with Martin.

I’m not talking about clubs actually redrafting their player, as you said it rarely gets to that. But it’s used as a tool to get a better trade result for their player. They probably have little intention to go through with it, but it is used to get the best result for their club for their player. Cochrane is the master of it, except he is the odd one that makes it public.

Take that tool away, their hand weakens. It’s not that hard to understand for those who have to negotiate in any form of business. Granted it may be a more difficult concept for those with little experience so I’ve had to spell it out to a few on here.

All the evidence you ask for will be in team to team negotiation discussion. Just because players don’t get redrafted doesn’t mean it’s not discussed to get the best trade result for their players behind closed doors.

Take it away and it weakens their hand in getting the best trade for their player.

 

[Blackas87]

As has been widely reported, they wanted to take a stand against players leaving their club, and the perception that 17 other clubs could simply feed off their carcass.

They just picked the wrong player to do it with, given he's almost certain to end up where he wanted to go anyway.

If the Suns let him get to Carlton for free, isn’t that just going against their stand that the other 17 clubs can just feed off their carcass?

If anything this the right player in the right situation with having pick one to make that stand.

 

[Jeremias]

If the Suns let him get to Carlton for free, isn’t that just going against their stand that the other 17 clubs can just feed off their carcass?

If anything this the right player in the right situation with having pick one to make that stand.

I agree. They want to take a stand, but the idea of doing so is just silly. Every year is different, every player is different, every negotiation is different.

Not every year will the player want to leave for a club with a pick so high in the PSD.

They've already taken their stand. And that's fine, but they're now going to lose the player for nothing. They will not draft him unless they can somehow convince him to stay, which seems very unlikely.

 

[Blackas87]

I agree. They want to take a stand, but the idea of doing so is just silly. Every year is different, every player is different, every negotiation is different.

Not every year will the player want to leave for a club with a pick so high in the PSD.

They've already taken their stand. And that's fine, but they're now going to lose the player for nothing. They will not draft him unless they can somehow convince him to stay, which seems very unlikely.

This where I disagree, if they are going to make a stand they need to follow through.

not every year will the Suns have pick 1 in the psd, this is the year to keep up with their stand

 

[Jeremias]

This where I disagree, if they are going to make a stand they need to follow through.

We have been down this path before.

It will not happen if he doesn't want to be there.

 

[Robertio]

This where I disagree, if they are going to make a stand they need to follow through.

not every year will the Suns have pick 1 in the psd, this is the year to keep up with their stand

I'd want my club to make better use of that pick 1, Martin would be gone next year anyway.

 

[Blackas87]

I'd want my club to make better use of that pick 1, Martin would be gone next year anyway.

And GC would get compensation rather than nothing this year.

We have been down this path before.

It will not happen if he doesn't want to be there.

I disagree with this, because I don’t think he hates being there, he just wants to play for a club more likely to win.

 

[Jeremias]

I disagree with this, because I don’t think he hates being there, he just wants to play for a club more likely to win.

He doesn't want to be there. That we know for sure.

We don't know the exact reasons why, we don't have to know the exact reasons why. But I doubt he's coming to Carlton just because we might win more than the Suns in 2020. There are plenty of other clubs who would gladly have him, and that he'd look at well before Carlton, if that was his reason.

 

[KnaveyBlue]

Looking at SOS face after deadline he was genuinely shocked.

He was probably in sheer disbelief like the rest of us that Essendon wouldn't take 5+9 for an injury-prone baby giraffe

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

How many players have been picked up by there original clubs in the PSD? I wouldn't think it would be many.

None, because they usually just sign a new deal to stay.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Martin has stated what he wants.

Has a history of changing his mind as circumstances change.