Opinion VICBias - Genuine Discussion

[The 747]

Agree, but once you are a Vic club and in the top 4 the amount of talent willing to come to your club easily surpasses any non vic club.

You can also easily fill holes in your list e.g. target a forward, back, inside or outside mid, when a non vic club don't have the same options.

Therefore, it is easier to top up as a vic club, when you are in the premiership window, or extend the premiership window after winning a flag.

Sure but all of this is an opinion and not provable. In theory lower placed clubs have more salary cap to spend.

I also haven't noticed any kind of issue with non-Vic clubs attracting or retaining players:

Port picked up half a spine last year, rarely lose anyone they want.

Eagles almost never lose any players they want. Ditto Brisbane and Sydney.

Crows have picked up Dawson and Rankine who are premium players.

Freo have an issue with player retention but that has a bit to with recruitment IMO, tend to have lots of the same type if player.

 

[zyzzbruh]

A correction to your correction:

Non-Vic clubs have to compete with one other club for available talent, where Vic clubs are competing with nine other clubs.

You may have more competition but you also have more players to pick from seeing that 70% of players are Vic based.

 

[The 747]

You may have more competition but you also have more players to pick from seeing that 70% of players are Vic based.

Sure, but difficult to determine what is an advantage there. VICBIAS posters just post that advantage is a fact.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Sure but all of this is an opinion and not provable. In theory lower placed clubs have more salary cap to spend.

I also haven't noticed any kind of issue with non-Vic clubs attracting or retaining players:

Port picked up half a spine last year, rarely lose anyone they want.

Port picked up B Grade players, not one A grader.

Eagles almost never lose any players they want. Ditto Brisbane and Sydney.

Crows have picked up Dawson and Rankine who are premium players.

You can get players coming back to your state, but not non local players. Especially not the A graders, who make a difference.




Lynch, Gunston, Dangerfield, Cameron, May, Lever all went to Vic teams, they thought they could win a flag at. Many of them, went to a team the year or 2 after the won a flag, and created a dynasty team.


Name one situation, when an A grader went to a bottom 4 side. The best I can think of is Shiel, but I think he genuinely thought the bombers would play finals consistently.

Freo have an issue with player retention but that has a bit to with recruitment IMO, tend to have lots of the same type if player.

When 80 percent of the people you draft, are non local players you will have retention issues if you are in the bottom 6.

At best, you will need to over pay to keep them. No wonder GWS and GC have had so many salary cap issues, Vic clubs just keep poaching there best players.


If the comp is even, why are the Vic teams always winning the premiership.

 

[The 747]

Lynch, Gunston, Dangerfield, Cameron, May, Lever all went to Vic teams, they thought they could win a flag at. Many of them, went to a team the year or 2 after the won a flag, and created a dynasty team.


Name one situation, when an A grader went to a bottom 4 side. The best I can think of is Shiel, but I think he genuinely thought the bombers would play finals consistently.

Yeah, but I'd argue that is not vicbias but simply that the AFL is staffed by dumb bogans. It's pretty well established that money becomes less of a motivator once you are past a certain level of income.

Their model assumes that a player would rather be paid 800K at a bottom 4 club than 650K at a top 4 club - which has been shown to be an incorrect assumption, especially when they keep increasing salaries.

However no doubt some in this thread think it's a brilliant evil Victorian conspiracy....

 

[Underarm]

Lynch, Gunston, Dangerfield, Cameron, May, Lever all went to Vic teams, they thought they could win a flag at. Many of them, went to a team the year or 2 after the won a flag, and created a dynasty team.

Of that list, Only Lynch moved to a premiership winning side.
of that list, Only Gunston and Lynch won more than 1 premiership.

Who's this 'many' you are talking about?

Name one situation, when an A grader went to a bottom 4 side. The best I can think of is Shiel, but I think he genuinely thought the bombers would play finals consistently.

Lachie Weller, Chris Judd, Jesse Hogan, Heath shaw, Dayne Beams, Ryan Griffen, Cam Mcarthy, Peirce Hanley....I'm getting pretty bored now - there's plenty more.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Yeah, but I'd argue that is not vicbias but simply that the AFL is staffed by dumb bogans. It's pretty well established that money becomes less of a motivator once you are past a certain level of income.

Their model assumes that a player would rather be paid 800K at a bottom 4 club than 650K at a top 4 club - which has been shown to be an incorrect assumption, especially when they keep increasing salaries.

However no doubt some in this thread think it's a brilliant evil Victorian conspiracy....

Not a Victorian conspiracy, but just advantages the AFL need to counter but refuse to. (Otherwise we see the Vic teams dominate like they have last 15 years)

The NGA system, which gave Vic more advantages but SA and WA nothing for 12 months we a complete joke. Lets hope the AFL were just incompetent.

I doubt we will see change, until 90% of the people making decisions are not based in Victoria.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Lachie Weller, Chris Judd, Jesse Hogan, Heath shaw, Dayne Beams, Ryan Griffen, Cam Mcarthy, Peirce Hanley....I'm getting pretty bored now - there's plenty more.

Weller, Hogan, Beams, McCarthy went back to their home state, or a state their family lived in. This just confirms what I said.

Hogan when he went to GWS, just needed to get away from AFL media.

You are correct, GWS was able to get a few older players to join them to provide experience. Sydney and Brisbane have had some luck at his, especially players who want to escape the AFL bubble, Daniher is another good example.

Judd was probably the exception, but 2 million a year does talk.

Of that list, Only Lynch moved to a premiership winning side.
of that list, Only Gunston and Lynch won more than 1 premiership.

Who's this 'many' you are talking about?

Gunston joined the Hawks after they won the first flag.

Cameron joined a successful Geelong side, as did Dangerfield.

The point was, the majority of A Grade Victorian talent join the top 2 or 3 Victorian teams.

 

[Underarm]

Gunston joined the Hawks after they won the first flag.

3 years later. They missed finals

Cameron joined a successful Geelong side,

Look, I know you're a Fremantle fan, but we really need to go over the definition of sucess.

as did Dangerfield.

Dangerfield joined a side that missed the 8.

The point was, the majority of A Grade Victorian talent join the top 2 or 3 Victorian teams.

Dangerfield (9th), Lever (9th), May (5th) All moved to the 4th or worst Vic teams that year.

If you just meant "A grade talent moved to Vic side in the 8", Then yeah you get to 4/6. Technically a majority.

 

[btdg]

I'm confused. When Joe Daniher goes to Brisbane or Jesse Hogan

23

Jesse Hogan

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goes to GWS, or Buddy Franklin/Tony Lockett

Tony Lockett

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No current season stats available

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/Josh Kennedy go to Sydney or Gary Ablett Jr goes to the Suns that doesn't count.

But when Jeremy Cameron

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Jeremy Cameron

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(originally from a small.town half way between Vic and SA) and Steven May

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Steven May

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(originally from NT) go to Victorian teams that does count?

Clearly the Swans need an academy. It's now 10 years since they signed the best player in the competition as a free agent! How else will they attract talent? I mean, aside from Taylor Adams

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Taylor Adams

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5.0

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20.4

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12.4

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8.0

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4.0

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5.9

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5.9

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18.2

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11.0

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and Brodie Grundy

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Brodie Grundy

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34.6

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13.8

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8.6

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2.6

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20.6

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, they haven't taken an All Australian calibre player away from a Melbourne team in weeks. And it just seems impossible for them to add role players if you don't count players like Joel Hamling

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Joel Hamling

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or Aaron Francis or James Jordon or Peter Ladhams

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Peter Ladhams

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21.0

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14.6

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14.8

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. It is vitally important that they be able to have priority access to the sons of former Victorian players - how else will such players be attracted to play our game?

 

[go_the_dockers]

3 years later. They missed finals

A blind man could see the hawks had an up and coming list. Buddy, Hodge, Mitchel, Lewis, Franklin. It is not like they joined a team that need a full rebuild.

Dangerfield (9th), Lever (9th), May (5th) All moved to the 4th or worst Vic teams that year.

If you just meant "A grade talent moved to Vic side in the 8", Then yeah you get to 4/6. Technically a majority.

They all picked sides who they thought would have a good chance of winning a premiership.

Geelong finished 3rd in 2014, 2nd the year after. It is not like they were a bottom side.

Melbourne also had a young up and coming list, and could target people to complement the list. They were 9th, and on the way up.

Surely you know ladder position the year before they joined, it not the best stat to work out the future success of a club.

 

[The 747]

Not a Victorian conspiracy, but just advantages the AFL need to counter but refuse to. (Otherwise we see the Vic teams dominate like they have last 15 years)

The NGA system, which gave Vic more advantages but SA and WA nothing for 12 months we a complete joke. Lets hope the AFL were just incompetent.

I doubt we will see change, until 90% of the people making decisions are not based in Victoria.

Top 4 teams does not mean they are Victorian teams.

And we are not talking about the NGA system.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Top 4 teams does not mean they are Victorian teams.

And we are not talking about the NGA system.

the NGA system is separate issue.

How do you explain Victorian clubs getting all indigenous players in Vic, Tas, NT when SA and WA clubs could not get all of their own state, and for the first 12 months got nothing.

NGA tweak to give SA, WA clubs greater indigenous access

Four clubs could get their wish for more access to indigenous players in metropolitan areas under Academy rules

www.afl.com.au

 

[go_the_dockers]

Here is the last 23 premierships.

Notice that a non vic side wins a few in Brisbane, they lose COLA.
Sydney win 2, they lose COLA.
Port won 1, with a core team of there foundation squad.

Vic teams dominate, they keep all the advantages they have.

2001	Brisbane Lions​	15.18 (108)	Essendon​	12.10 (82)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	91,482	29 September 2001​
2002	Brisbane Lions (2)​	10.15 (75)	Collingwood​	9.12 (66)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	91,817	28 September 2002​
2003	Brisbane Lions (3)​	20.14 (134)	Collingwood​	12.12 (84)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	79,451	27 September 2003​
2004	Port Adelaide​	17.11 (113)	Brisbane Lions​	10.13 (73)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	77,671	25 September 2004​
2005	Sydney (4)​	8.10 (58)	West Coast​	7.12 (54)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	91,828	24 September 2005​
2006	West Coast (3)​	12.13 (85)	Sydney​	12.12 (84)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	97,431	30 September 2006​
2007	Geelong (7)​	24.19 (163)	Port Adelaide​	6.8 (44)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	97,302	29 September 2007​
2008	Hawthorn (10)​	18.7 (115)	Geelong​	11.23 (89)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	100,012	27 September 2008​
2009	Geelong (8)​	12.8 (80)	St Kilda​	9.14 (68)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	99,251	26 September 2009​
2010	Collingwood (15)​	9.14 (68)	St Kilda​	10.8 (68)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	100,016	25 September 2010​
16.12 (108)	7.10 (52)	R	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	93,853	2 October 2010​
2011	Geelong (9)​	18.11 (119)	Collingwood​	12.9 (81)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	99,537	1 October 2011​
2012	Sydney (5)​	14.7 (91)	Hawthorn​	11.15 (81)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	99,683	29 September 2012​
2013	Hawthorn (11)​	11.11 (77)	Fremantle​	8.14 (62)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	100,007	28 September 2013​
2014	Hawthorn (12)​	21.11 (137)	Sydney​	11.8 (74)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	99,454	27 September 2014​
2015	Hawthorn (13)​	16.11 (107)	West Coast​	8.13 (61)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	98,633	3 October 2015​
2016	Western Bulldogs (2)​	13.11 (89)	Sydney​	10.7 (67)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	99,981	1 October 2016​
2017	Richmond (11)​	16.12 (108)	Adelaide​	8.12 (60)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	100,021	30 September 2017​
2018	West Coast (4)​	11.13 (79)	Collingwood​	11.8 (74)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	100,022	29 September 2018​
2019	Richmond (12)​	17.12 (114)	Greater Western Sydney​	3.7 (25)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	100,014	28 September 2019​
2020	Richmond (13)​	12.9 (81)	Geelong​	7.8 (50)	GF	The Gabba​	29,707	24 October 2020​
2021	Melbourne (13)​	21.14 (140)	Western Bulldogs​	10.6 (66)	GF	Optus Stadium​	61,118	25 September 2021​
2022	Geelong (10)​	20.13 (133)	Sydney​	8.4 (52)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	100,024	24 September 2022​
2023	Collingwood (16)​	12.18 (90)	Brisbane Lions​	13.8 (86)	GF	Melbourne Cricket Ground​	100,024	30 September 2023​

 

[The 747]

the NGA system is separate issue.

How do you explain Victorian clubs getting all indigenous players in Vic, Tas, NT when SA and WA clubs could not get all of their own state, and for the first 12 months got nothing.

NGA tweak to give SA, WA clubs greater indigenous access

Four clubs could get their wish for more access to indigenous players in metropolitan areas under Academy rules

www.afl.com.au

Yes it is and I have no idea why that was the case. No answers here, did Gill from SA or Goyder from WA ever explain why?

But it isn't VICBIAS since there are four Northern clubs that aren't Victorian.

 

[RUNVS]

I'm confused. When Joe Daniher goes to Brisbane or Jesse Hogan goes to GWS, or Buddy Franklin/Tony Lockett/Josh Kennedy go to Sydney or Gary Ablett Jr goes to the Suns that doesn't count.

But when Jeremy Cameron (originally from a small.town half way between Vic and SA) and Steven May (originally from NT) go to Victorian teams that does count?

Clearly the Swans need an academy. It's now 10 years since they signed the best player in the competition as a free agent! How else will they attract talent? I mean, aside from Taylor Adams and Brodie Grundy, they haven't taken an All Australian calibre player away from a Melbourne team in weeks. And it just seems impossible for them to add role players if you don't count players like Joel Hamling or Aaron Francis or James Jordon or Peter Ladhams. It is vitally important that they be able to have priority access to the sons of former Victorian players - how else will such players be attracted to play our game?

Please list all the best 22 players Sydney traded for between 2014 and 2022.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

The only reason we have threads like these is because we have a compromised competition. Everything about the league is compromised.
Once upon a time you could bank on the fact that the team that won the flag is genuinely the best team in the comp, we can't even do that anymore as it comes down to finishing positions on the ladder after the Home and away and that all comes down to who played what sides twice and what advantage did they get from doing that.

How on earth did we get to this and become such a huge league yet such an unprofessional and unfair league. Money Money Money is the answer but it only helps out one state that money and hence why it never gets discussed or looked at.

The amount of mountains some of the clubs have to climb to have success in this league is incredible, many clubs can't even get TV space even when they are up the top of the ladder.

None of this is news, it has been like this for decades and it won't change until the priority of the league is the competition first and money second. You just need a brave new CEO. Who probably does not exist.

 

[VicBased]

The only reason we have threads like these is because we have a compromised competition. Everything about the league is compromised.
Once upon a time you could bank on the fact that the team that won the flag is genuinely the best team in the comp, we can't even do that anymore as it comes down to finishing positions on the ladder after the Home and away and that all comes down to who played what sides twice and what advantage did they get from doing that.

How on earth did we get to this and become such a huge league yet such an unprofessional and unfair league. Money Money Money is the answer but it only helps out one state that money and hence why it never gets discussed or looked at.

The amount of mountains some of the clubs have to climb to have success in this league is incredible, many clubs can't even get TV space even when they are up the top of the ladder.

None of this is news, it has been like this for decades and it won't change until the priority of the league is the competition first and money second. You just need a brave new CEO. Who probably does not exist.

Sometimes you just say all the right things

 

[go_the_dockers]

Yes it is and I have no idea why that was the case. No answers here, did Gill from SA or Goyder from WA ever explain why?

But it isn't VICBIAS since there are four Northern clubs that aren't Victorian.

The best I can remember, is the Vic clubs thought it would give SA and WA an advantage. I can't find any reference to the article, but I can't find any reference to the article when the NGA was first announced for Vic clubs either, so I am guessing AFL remove old articles.


Vic clubs getting favoured over SA and WA clubs is not #VICBIAS.

haha - surely you are taking the piss now

 

[The 747]

Vic clubs getting favoured over SA and WA clubs is not #VICBIAS.

haha - surely you are taking the piss now

Same as so many times in this thread, someone tries to have a discussion with one of the #VICBIAS! crew and they get all aggro about it - probably because of that desire to be a victim.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Same as so many times in this thread, someone tries to have a discussion with one of the #VICBIAS! crew and they get all aggro about it - probably because of that desire to be a victim.

haha


You responded below, to the Vic clubs getting NGA 12 months before the SA and WA clubs. How is this not Vic Bias, and how does the NSW and QLD clubs having an accademy impact it?



But it isn't VICBIAS since there are four Northern clubs that aren't Victorian.

 

[The 747]

haha


You responded below, to the Vic clubs getting NGA 12 months before the SA and WA clubs. How is this not Vic Bias, and how does the NSW and QLD clubs having an accademy impact it?

So Vic clubs were given the same advantages as the four Northern clubs, for one year?

And that advantage no longer exists right?

 

[go_the_dockers]

So Vic clubs were given the same advantages as the four Northern clubs, for one year?

And that advantage no longer exists right?

Yes, and as normal SA and WA clubs were given nothing.

So out of the traditional clubs, only the Vic clubs got an advantage

That equals #VICBIAS

Surely, even the most biased person could admit that is Vic Bias.

 

[The 747]

Yes, and as normal SA and WA clubs were given nothing.

So out of the traditional clubs, only the Vic clubs got an advantage

That equals #VICBIAS

Surely, even the most biased person could admit that is Vic Bias.

WA and SA do not have traditional clubs, but anyway I'll concede the academy point.

What in 2024 aside from the MCG GF (which nobody can change and most fair minded Vic fans don't like it either) is #vicbias??

 

[go_the_dockers]

WA and SA do not have traditional clubs, but anyway I'll concede the academy point.

What in 2024 aside from the MCG GF (which nobody can change and most fair minded Vic fans don't like it either) is #vicbias??

Great to see you have conceded the AFL is biased towards Vic teams.


Marquee time slots
National broad games
Percentage of home grown talent on your list
Friday night games
AFL GF - AFL could easily sell the next 100 years after 2055 (or what ever the date is) to WA and SA and then see what happens
Percentage of umpires, and AFL officials based in each state (90% Victorian)
the fact the AFL has created a 2nd tier comp that features all clubs, except those from SA and WA, but we pay for it.

We have a lot of work to do.