Autopsy 2018 Rd 17 Kreuzer out early, another terrible loss

[harrisendblue]

Not at all I'm judging him on the bit part he was required to play which he did fine. He had every right to be gassed when he came off the ground, many players run themselves into the ground.

Putting all the excuses aside, it has been a complete waste of time not playing him this year when he had already shown he belongs. It's a mark against the club the fact that they held him back and gave us BS excuses and only caved in and played him when the media kicked up a fuss. Nothing had changed when they opted to play him, they had just the week before claimed he wasn't ready and not alluded to him playing. Considering he sat on the pine gameless for that week whilst we opted to play two rucks shows how stubbornly stupid the club were acting and TBH I'm over it. We cannot afford double standards, it doesn't work and never has.

Its the beauty of life that people look at the same thing but view it differently. Going over this again so apologies for those who have read it before. You cant play phillips/kruez and Harry in the same side - surely you can see that. That being the case do you drop Phillips after his previous game, or do you not bring in Kruez after he was passed fit? Regardless of what you think Harry's role should be, in modern footy, as the second key forward who provides ruck support.

He got back in the side after Phillips couldn't play. He was close to being in the side because he was the emergency after being named in the NB best. So clearly no bending to the pressure as you state.

Double standards you say of the MC. I think that in most cases they have rewarded good performances in the two's regardless of the who the player is, for example Graham and Oshea. Its a positive the MC have stayed through the year and stuck to their principles and not picked players just because of the external noise.

Mate understand your frustration at losing but put things in perspective and be strong. Stay the course because its gunna take time and there will be more shocking performances.

 

[Show_Me_The_Money]

Its the beauty of life that people look at the same thing but view it differently. Going over this again so apologies for those who have read it before. You cant play phillips/kruez and Harry in the same side - surely you can see that. That being the case do you drop Phillips after his previous game, or do you not bring in Kruez after he was passed fit? Regardless of what you think Harry's role should be, in modern footy, as the second key forward who provides ruck support.

He got back in the side after Phillips couldn't play. He was close to being in the side because he was the emergency after being named in the NB best. So clearly no bending to the pressure as you state.

Double standards you say of the MC. I think that in most cases they have rewarded good performances in the two's regardless of the who the player is, for example Graham and Oshea. Its a positive the MC have stayed through the year and stuck to their principles and not picked players just because of the external noise.

Mate understand your frustration at losing but put things in perspective and be strong. Stay the course because its gunna take time and there will be more shocking performances.

Mate Phillips had been dropped for Kreuzer previously after good performances two rucks don't go together, especially when your mantra and excuse is to play the kids and develop them, leaving Harry out made zero sense.

I think we need to agree to disagree with this one.

 

[harrisendblue]

Mate Phillips had been dropped for Kreuzer previously after good performances two rucks don't go together, especially when your mantra and excuse is to play the kids and develop them, leaving Harry out made zero sense.

I think we need to agree to disagree with this one.

I think its fair to say that Phillips, Port game was one of if not his best. The club has also repeated that games wont just be gifted so that needs to be included in the so called mantra.

Strong clubs don't acquiesce to the populist view of either supporters or members.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Finals after 66?? Seriously
All we wanted was to see more effort and in third year to have more than 1 bloody win
If people don’t perform in the real world they get sacked don’t they

I believe we will see people sacked. Mckay is leaving and it’s sounding like there’ll be a few changes elsewhere too. I’d suggest some fitness personnel might be shuffled and maybe some assistant coaches.

Too many different ingredients, let those who know everything going on diagnose and fix the issue.

 

[Show_Me_The_Money]

I think its fair to say that Phillips, Port game was one of if not his best. The club has also repeated that games wont just be gifted so that needs to be included in the so called mantra.

Except if you're a number one pick and your name is Jacob Weitering. Double standards never have and never will work. I believe Andrew Maher mentioned something similar a few weeks ago. Doesn't take a brain surgeon to see what is going on at our club. Then again, ignorance is bliss, as they say.

 

[Toddski]

I don’t mean to throw myself in again but the idea of being objective has been common in this thread, so....

I think you (and quite a few others) need to understand that your opinion is not objective. What you’ve presented is still a subjective opinion, you’ve just come to a different opinion than someone else.

The complex nature of trying to diagnose a clubs bad (or good season) is due to millions of factors of which we cannot know even most of them. It is therefore impossible to be objective.

Objectively - Carlton is last. We’ve played bad footy.

Subjectively - ‘insert all your opinions as to why.’

Subjectively - I have blue eyes

Objectively - My eyes have no pigment and the colour blue is due to the light scattering in my eye and some of the longer waveforms being absorbed. Leaving blue to be reflected back out.

Objectivity - we have won 1 game for the whole year which is on par with our worst season on record as a club in 111 years of vfl/afl football

I need not make any more statements.

But I will, you're all galahs too afraid to face facts and accept it.

 

[RudyBlue]

Objectivity - we have won 1 game for the whole year which is on par with our worst season on record as a club in 111 years of vfl/afl football

I need not make any more statements.

But I will, you're all galahs too afraid to face facts and accept it.

Worst season on record? I'll take your word for it. Seems likely.

Subjectively, what do you think we need to fix?

 

[harrisendblue]

Except if you're a number one pick and your name is Jacob Weitering. Double standards never have and never will work. I believe Andrew Maher mentioned something similar a few weeks ago. Doesn't take a brain surgeon to see what is going on at our club. Then again, ignorance is bliss, as they say.

What Weiters hasnt been dropped? Think your comparing apples with eggs - yes its that different.

Whilst not being a brain surgeon I am a neuro surgeon and all i can see is consistency by the MC. Perhaps they have been forced on occasions to give players games because of injury but in the main its not to bad.

Ignorance is sometimes bliss and much better then informed hysterical reactions.

 

[Toddski]

Worst season on record? I'll take your word for it. Seems likely.

Subjectively, what do you think we need to fix?

Now that's a trickier question.

Bolton needs support in my opinion. He has fielded teams that cannot compete against the modern game style other teams play. Less corporate speak and more honesty as well. Players and supporters don't want to hear about the green shoots anymore.

SOS has clearly underestimated the importance of senior footballing quality and leadership. You can't just expect 1st round 18 year olds to develop into their potential without guidance and mentoring from other more experienced players. Draft some speed and aggression. Recruit some genuine talent. If not possible then scour the local leagues. Tim Kelly would have been ideal.

Football department needs an overhaul. Our injury plague has left us exposed badly. Good to see McKay packing his bags. Great player, mediocre manager.

There is more but it's been a big day.

 

[harrisendblue]

Objectivity - we have won 1 game for the whole year which is on par with our worst season on record as a club in 111 years of vfl/afl football

I need not make any more statements.

But I will, you're all galahs too afraid to face facts and accept it.

Well you could make the statement that rules of racing have changed significantly in the last 111 years.
You could try and provide some insight into why we have lost so many.

 

[Aphrodite]

Objectivity - we have won 1 game for the whole year which is on par with our worst season on record as a club in 111 years of vfl/afl football

I need not make any more statements.

But I will, you're all galahs too afraid to face facts and accept it.

Not needed.

Play nice thanks!

 

[harrisendblue]

Now that's a trickier question.

Bolton needs support in my opinion. He has fielded teams that cannot compete against the modern game style other teams play. Less corporate speak and more honesty as well. Players and supporters don't want to hear about the green shoots anymore.

SOS has clearly underestimated the importance of senior footballing quality and leadership. You can't just expect 1st round 18 year olds to develop into their potential without guidance and mentoring from other more experienced players. Draft some speed and aggression. Recruit some genuine talent. If not possible then scour the local leagues. Tim Kelly would have been ideal.

Football department needs an overhaul. Our injury plague has left us exposed badly. Good to see McKay packing his bags. Great player, mediocre manager.

There is more but it's been a big day.

Since when does using corporate speak equate to not being honest.
SOS and the club has clearly understood the implication of trading experienced players that's why the club has been rock solid behind the rebuild. They have actually not being surprised with our fall especially so after the injuries.
All departments will be reviewed but sometimes you have years when injuries happen.

 

[RudyBlue]

Now that's a trickier question.

Bolton needs support in my opinion. He has fielded teams that cannot compete against the modern game style other teams play. Less corporate speak and more honesty as well. Players and supporters don't want to hear about the green shoots anymore.

SOS has clearly underestimated the importance of senior footballing quality and leadership. You can't just expect 1st round 18 year olds to develop into their potential without guidance and mentoring from other more experienced players. Draft some speed and aggression. Recruit some genuine talent. If not possible then scour the local leagues. Tim Kelly would have been ideal.

Football department needs an overhaul. Our injury plague has left us exposed badly. Good to see McKay packing his bags. Great player, mediocre manager.

There is more but it's been a big day.

Even though some of us take a more pessimisitic view of our situation, I'd say almost all of us would agree with what you've put forward.

I think the club would like to implement a lot of these ideas too.

 

[Neese]

Hooray, Toddski isn't going to make any more statements.
Rejoice oeioke

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

On the Tim Kelly point a few people have brought up, nobody was going to use a top 10 pick on him. Our next pick was #30 and he was already gone. Rumours were that we were into him but we can't take what wasn't available.

 

[footyfan1978]

Kelly was going to Eagles until Cats jumped in.
Pick 30 we were long shot of 3rd in line. If he slipped we were ready to pounce though.

 

[Arr0w]

Now that's a trickier question.

Bolton needs support in my opinion. He has fielded teams that cannot compete against the modern game style other teams play. Less corporate speak and more honesty as well. Players and supporters don't want to hear about the green shoots anymore.

SOS has clearly underestimated the importance of senior footballing quality and leadership. You can't just expect 1st round 18 year olds to develop into their potential without guidance and mentoring from other more experienced players. Draft some speed and aggression. Recruit some genuine talent. If not possible then scour the local leagues. Tim Kelly would have been ideal.

Football department needs an overhaul. Our injury plague has left us exposed badly. Good to see McKay packing his bags. Great player, mediocre manager.

There is more but it's been a big day.

It is a fine line. It would be great to have better senior players such as Gibbs and 2E, but to try and get ahead of the pack, trading for more youth will have us in a better position long term

I do agree that we should be targeting speed and aggression, which you can do with the same player. IMO, this will start to evolve over the next 2 years

Guys like Willo, Fisher and Cuners are no shrinking violets, once they get a run at it, you will see plenty of speed and aggression, we just need more

 

[thylacine60]

Hooray, Toddski isn't going to make any more statements.
Rejoice oeioke

but that ain't no way to support your club!

 

[Toddski]

It is a fine line. It would be great to have better senior players such as Gibbs and 2E, but to try and get ahead of the pack, trading for more youth will have us in a better position long term

I do agree that we should be targeting speed and aggression, which you can do with the same player. IMO, this will start to evolve over the next 2 years

Guys like Willo, Fisher and Cuners are no shrinking violets, once they get a run at it, you will see plenty of speed and aggression, we just need more

I really enjoyed SOS' interview last night. Huge step up from Hughes and Rogers.

His main area for improvement should be via the Rookie Draft and scouring some senior talent in the local leagues.

 

[Toddski]

Hooray, Toddski isn't going to make any more statements.
Rejoice oeioke

I think you're better suited to commenting on BigFooty TV show threads. The Handmaiden's Tale, inspiring stuff.

 

[Arr0w]

I really enjoyed SOS' interview last night. Huge step up from Hughes and Rogers.

His main area for improvement should be via the Rookie Draft and scouring some senior talent in the local leagues.

Initially I would have drafted more kids, such as Banfield. Depending on future trades and or FA over the next 2 years, I would continue to try and unearth more projected talent.

If we struggle to bring in more mature players via trade/FA, then I would prefer to target the lower leagues for mature players, as long as they replace the likes of an O'Shea, rather than compromising our youth policy

 

[Neese]

I think you're better suited to commenting on BigFooty TV show threads. The Handmaiden's Tale, inspiring stuff.

Oh great, another creepy stalker

 

[Show_Me_The_Money]

What Weiters hasnt been dropped? Think your comparing apples with eggs - yes its that different.

Whilst not being a brain surgeon I am a neuro surgeon and all i can see is consistency by the MC. Perhaps they have been forced on occasions to give players games because of injury but in the main its not to bad.

Ignorance is sometimes bliss and much better then informed hysterical reactions.

Hysterics? Haha you are funny. Now you're really struggling.

Weitering performed poorly through the back end of last year and most of this year, has probably played one great game in the reserves and that's it but has played through most of the year. Not only that but his attitude and body language has sucked, most of the excuses that were made for not playing Harry. So no there is little if any difference at all.

Consistency from the MC? All you can see? You must lead a blissful life.

 

[harrisendblue]

Hysterics? Haha you are funny. Now you're really struggling.

Weitering performed poorly through the back end of last year and most of this year, has probably played one great game in the reserves and that's it but has played through most of the year. Not only that but his attitude and body language has sucked, most of the excuses that were made for not playing Harry. So no there is little if any difference at all.

Consistency from the MC? All you can see? You must lead a blissful life.

Weiters form was poor in the middle part of last season especially after copping an injury when playing forward, his form actually picked in the last part of the season.

Harry was not picked for poor body language it has been his inability to provide consistent effort at the contest and the fitness to be the second ruck. Weiters body language and demeanour has been the same since he first came into the side.
I have full confidence that if Marchbank, ASOS and Macreadie were all fit and playing well then Weiters would have played less games.

And you must lead a life full of conspiracies and always watching out for the sky falling down. Its not that bud.

 

[Show_Me_The_Money]

Weiters form was poor in the middle part of last season especially after copping an injury when playing forward, his form actually picked in the last part of the season.

Harry was not picked for poor body language it has been his inability to provide consistent effort at the contest and the fitness to be the second ruck. Weiters body language and demeanour has been the same since he first came into the side.
I have full confidence that if Marchbank, ASOS and Macreadie were all fit and playing well then Weiters would have played less games.

And you must lead a life full of conspiracies and always watching out for the sky falling down. Its not that bud.

The sky is not falling, there is more to life than football.

Like I said, agree to disagree.