Anthony Albanese - How long? -2-

[The Cryptkeeper]

Think about what you're saying here.

Really think about it.

You're saying if we're not very nice to Albo he won't do anything about women getting murdered.

That is not at all what I am saying unless you really really take me out of context.

 

[Gralin]

That is not at all what I am saying unless you really really take me out of context.

No you're saying women need to keep the PM onside ir ge won't help

That is the root of what you are saying.

I've dealt with DV in my family.

We've also seen that they won't actually do what is needed, they won't listen to actual experts and people on the ground

National cabinet isn't a solution

This isn't a new issue, we've had years of people telling successive governments that our welfare system is a barrier to escaping violence and they change nothing

Crisis housing is lacking, they do nothing
. they'll have a summit or whatever, anything to avoid actual action

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

No you're saying women need to keep the PM onside ir ge won't help

That is the root of what you are saying.

No it absolutely is not.

Let me make this as clear as I ******* can for you.

If you bring people along for the ride and engage them you are going to get better results than if you publicly call them out for lying, especially if they have not done so.

I did not say Albo would not work with her. My point is that in general terms (and this could be said of most human beings) people will be more engaged if you start discussions in good faith.

What do you think Sarah Williams gained for such an important cause by making such claims yesterday? And please, don’t hide behind her being emotional. She, as an event organiser should not be fabricating events for effect.

And again, just so we are crystal ******* clear, Albo did not do himself any favours yesterday either.

 

[Chief]

If you bring people along for the ride and engage them you are going to get better results than if you publicly call them out for lying, especially if they have not done so.

Meh. A slight mistake in the wording isn't a lie.

Interesting podcast for you on lapses of memory being cast as lapses of character:

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Meh. A slight mistake in the wording isn't a lie.

Interesting podcast for you on lapses of memory being cast as lapses of character:

Sorry Chief but in my opinion when you call someone a liar, you’d want to be on very firm footing.

Williams made claims against the PM that were patently untrue.

 

[skipper kelly]

It sounds like he got pissed off with what she was saying hence the smart Alec comments. She was practically insulting him to his face. Saying it wasn't possible was sarcastic. He let his guard down for sure there and needed to be better but she also shouldnt have said what she said because that isn't going to get people to listen being dismissive. He's the first PM for a while to at least have the guts to try and have his say on the matter instead of brushing it off the least she could have done was hear what he had to say without dismissing it before he had even spoke. Lessons to be learned from both parties IMO.

From 1:00 min mark is when he started to crack the sads. I tend to think that the PM's office was contacted and he wanted to march at the rally and not speak, as Williams stated. There is no reason not to believe her. When he was called out (1:00 min mark of video) he cracked the shits and moved towards Williams with his posse. His words were of a politician scorned. He lied about being told "it wasn't possible" for him to speak. There is no reason to not believe the woman. The gaslighting of this woman began not long afterward. Lets see who to believe, victim or politician?

Anyways thanks for the civil discussion.

I don't know what can be done, maybe get rid of say submarines, and spend that money on proper crisis housing and welfare so at least the women and kids have somewhere safe to go, short to medium term.

 

[nut]

From 1:00 min mark is when he started to crack the sads. I tend to think that the PM's office was contacted and he wanted to march at the rally and not speak, as Williams stated. There is no reason not to believe her. When he was called out (1:00 min mark of video) he cracked the shits and moved towards Williams with his posse. His words were of a politician scorned. He lied about being told "it wasn't possible" for him to speak. There is no reason to not believe the woman. The gaslighting of this woman began not long afterward. Lets see who to believe, victim or politician?

Anyways thanks for the civil discussion.

I don't know what can be done, maybe get rid of say submarines, and spend that money on proper crisis housing and welfare so at least the women and kids have somewhere safe to go, short to medium term.

Do people still watch main stream media?

 

[Rob R]

From 1:00 min mark is when he started to crack the sads. I tend to think that the PM's office was contacted and he wanted to march at the rally and not speak, as Williams stated. There is no reason not to believe her. When he was called out (1:00 min mark of video) he cracked the shits and moved towards Williams with his posse. His words were of a politician scorned. He lied about being told "it wasn't possible" for him to speak. There is no reason to not believe the woman. The gaslighting of this woman began not long afterward. Lets see who to believe, victim or politician?

Anyways thanks for the civil discussion.

I don't know what can be done, maybe get rid of say submarines, and spend that money on proper crisis housing and welfare so at least the women and kids have somewhere safe to go, short to medium term.

Lots of money available even just enforcing rules about hospitality - DPMs own department is paying for Canberracrats to have a cocktail party for the 30th anniversary of their organisation and even offering to pay for flights and accommodation for former canberracrats to come back. Probably half a million spent in two hours on a party that could go to housing or anything.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[The Punter]

The solution is not to have zealots running the discussion.

Not for nothing, but this is just about the solution to anything.

Not being a zealot also means two things:

• one is more interested in the thing being done rather than making a point about the thing
• one is more interested in the thing being done rather than who gets the credit

And there is a lot of grandstanding everywhere, here very much included.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I don't know what can be done, maybe get rid of say submarines, and spend that money on proper crisis housing and welfare so at least the women and kids have somewhere safe to go, short to medium term.

We could paint them yellow and live in them.

 

[Saint]

DV hadn't been a vote-changer perhaps up until now.

It's interesting to see both sides trying to claim the moral high ground.

The ball is in Albanese's court to make it bi-partisan. But he got burnt by Dutton on The Voice being bi-partisan right up until action-time and won't be willing to make that mistake again.

I can't see how Albanese loses the moral high-ground to the misogynists and rape/pedophile apologists in the Federal Liberal Party. So he can afford to lean a bit further into the bi-partisanship without losing votes over it. It's not like anyone is going to believe the LNP suddenly cares about women's safety more than the ALP does.

 

[burge13]

DV hadn't been a vote-changer perhaps up until now.

It's interesting to see both sides trying to claim the moral high ground.

The ball is in Albanese's court to make it bi-partisan. But he got burnt by Dutton on The Voice being bi-partisan right up until action-time and won't be willing to make that mistake again.

I can't see how Albanese loses the moral high-ground to the misogynists and rape/pedophile apologists in the Federal Liberal Party. So he can afford to lean a bit further into the bi-partisanship without losing votes over it. It's not like anyone is going to believe the LNP suddenly cares about women's safety more than the ALP does.

Reason 10838723781 politics is utter bullshit and these people are never here for the greater good. Will always mystify me people cheer their team

How about do the right ******* thing and the votes will come. Not only do things according to think tanks and guessing where votes may come from aka only chasing the hot issue at the time without ever really doing anything

Needs an overhaul and complete clean out but while morons keep apologising for their team, despite them being no ******* better, no one is better off

in b4 a mod brings up Dutton/Scomo or some bullshit further proving my point

 

[Donakebab]

Sorry but I'm not arguing anything. Just stating what happened after you specifically asking what I disagreed with.

He should not have lied about the organisers saying it was "not possible" for him or whoever to talk. Funnily enough he also had his notes to refer to, even after he was supposedly told it was not possible for him to talk. Surely his workers would have asked well beforehand about the PM speaking at the rally. If they were told it was not possible why would he have notes? It's the little details that matter when covering a lie.

But, when allowed to speak he should have said his bit and sat down. No need for the smart arse comments from the Prime Minister. All the spin that is starting and will continue for the next few days is just that, spin. Misconstrued, misinterpreted etc etc. Again, a standard day.

Edit. A correction, he stated "that wasn't possible"

The PM, along with any other MP worth their salt, always has their talking points with them at a public event. Just because they aren't officially on a schedule, doesn't mean they won't be asked questions at some stage.

Dumb take.

 

[Gralin]

Reason 10838723781 politics is utter bullshit and these people are never here for the greater good. Will always mystify me people cheer their team

How about do the right ******* thing and the votes will come. Not only do things according to think tanks and guessing where votes may come from aka only chasing the hot issue at the time without ever really doing anything

Needs an overhaul and complete clean out but while morons keep apologising for their team, despite them being no ******* better, no one is better off

in b4 a mod brings up Dutton/Scomo or some bullshit further proving my point

Labor very much come across as governing by polling numbers in the hope of retaining power

They don't appear to be willing to go out on a limb and propose anything, rather they wait for enough people to make noise then say hey we've listened and now we will do xx

whether they then do it is irrelevant as usual, its all about managing public perception rather than government for the good of the people

 

[burge13]

Labor very much come across as governing by polling numbers in the hope of retaining power

They don't appear to be willing to go out on a limb and propose anything, rather they wait for enough people to make noise then say hey we've listened and now we will do xx

whether they then do it is irrelevant as usual, its all about managing public perception rather than government for the good of the people

They all do it, and have done it but now it's on steroids. Feels like nothing is proposed or planned ahead just constant reactions to twitter/FB/opinion polls

I wonder how different it would all look if they had no access to this info or lobbyists and needed to actually action what they felt was right according to their teams planning/research?

Would the housing crisis be as bad as it is? Supermarket monopolies fixed? Submarines still go ahead?
Would political parties work together rather than oppose every ******* thing the other proposed? They'd have to i think

I mean, this will never happen so it's pointless but is there many downsides to the hypothetical? We'd actually have government govern, a novel idea in 2024

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Labor very much come across as governing by polling numbers in the hope of retaining power

They don't appear to be willing to go out on a limb and propose anything, rather they wait for enough people to make noise then say hey we've listened and now we will do xx

whether they then do it is irrelevant as usual, its all about managing public perception rather than government for the good of the people

Largely fair but there are some exceptions. For example, they increased the minimum wage almost from day one despite opposition carry on.

However, I also think they are somewhat gun-shy now after The Voice got blown apart.

 

[phantom13]

Yep. No problem.

A lie is a lie is a lie, no matter who tells it.

If youre gonna do the lie is a lie thing Albo also lied, they didnt want to let us speak... while speaking.

I think the issue is Albo was ******* tone deaf, at a rally about violence and oppression of women doing the whole "i the most powerful man is Aus will not be silenced by some woman" while the woman who organised the rally is standing there crying was beyond idiotic and his ongoing refusal to answer the question about what he said and why it happened was also idiotic.

It seems that the whole prior to thing was a misunderstanding (noting its fair for the organisers to not want Albo to turn it into a PR stunt) but his carry on and ongoing refusal to acknowledge his heck up, for the PM, is piss poor.

 

[Gralin]

They all do it, and have done it but now it's on steroids. Feels like nothing is proposed or planned ahead just constant reactions to twitter/FB/opinion polls

I wonder how different it would all look if they had no access to this info or lobbyists and needed to actually action what they felt was right according to their teams planning/research?

Would the housing crisis be as bad as it is? Supermarket monopolies fixed? Submarines still go ahead?
Would political parties work together rather than oppose every ******* thing the other proposed? They'd have to i think

I mean, this will never happen so it's pointless but is there many downsides to the hypothetical? We'd actually have government govern, a novel idea in 2024

lobbying is a huge issue for sure

as are corporate donors


state capture is a real problem

as is how much the consultancies and think tanks decide everything

none of them talk to regular people or community groups when making decisions

they don't talk to the people impacted by their choices either

 

[Gralin]

Largely fair but there are some exceptions. For example, they increased the minimum wage almost from day one despite opposition carry on.

However, I also think they are somewhat gun-shy now after The Voice got blown apart.

there was public support for minimum wage increase though, that was being called for prior to them doing it

there was public support for the voice when they said they were going to do it, and then they did nothing for almost 6 months assuming job done and let that support be eroded

then when they did engage their comms was terrible

but the voice isn't the sort of thing I'm talking about really, more the general how they go about everything

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

If youre gonna do the lie is a lie thing Albo also lied, they didnt want to let us speak... while speaking.

I think the issue is Albo was ******* tone deaf, at a rally about violence and oppression of women doing the whole "i the most powerful man is Aus will not be silenced by some woman" while the woman who organised the rally is standing there crying was beyond idiotic and his ongoing refusal to answer the question about what he said and why it happened was also idiotic.

It seems that the whole prior to thing was a misunderstanding (noting its fair for the organisers to not want Albo to turn it into a PR stunt) but his carry on and ongoing refusal to acknowledge his * up, for the PM, is piss poor.

Mate, I have been at great pains to state that Albo made a meal of things as well.

But I still maintain that if somebody wants to take the moral high ground then they must actually be able to do so without resorting to the fabrication of events to suit their agenda.

Both parties were at fault in my opinion.

 

[phantom13]

Mate, I have been at great pains to state that Albo made a meal of things as well.

But I still maintain that if somebody wants to take the moral high ground then they must actually be able to do so without resorting to the fabrication of events to suit their agenda.

Both parties were at fault in my opinion.

I dont really think shes tried to claim to moral high ground. A woman who has been a victim of DV got publically lashed by the literal most powerful man in Oz for absolutely no reason than him trying to take the moral high ground AND at absolute best for him from a misunderstanding.

I expect alot more of the PM than a rally organiser.

IMO youre being incredibly ******* harsh on her, if shes got some of it wrong or whatever im happy to give her alot more grace than ill give him.

Sunrise asked him 5 seperate times if hed said "im the PM" and he deflected every single time.

I had alot of hope for Albo but frankly hes been a 5% improvement on the standard and s**t like this he could have been accountable and chose to weasel out and throw a young woman under the bus.

If he wants better, he should do better (and i realise youre agreeing with that).

 

[JackOutback]

If youre gonna do the lie is a lie thing Albo also lied, they didnt want to let us speak... while speaking.

I think the issue is Albo was ******* tone deaf, at a rally about violence and oppression of women doing the whole "i the most powerful man is Aus will not be silenced by some woman" while the woman who organised the rally is standing there crying was beyond idiotic and his ongoing refusal to answer the question about what he said and why it happened was also idiotic.

It seems that the whole prior to thing was a misunderstanding (noting its fair for the organisers to not want Albo to turn it into a PR stunt) but his carry on and ongoing refusal to acknowledge his * up, for the PM, is piss poor.

This is what is being disputed, the video does not support this at all, but we see the narrative has taken root thanks to the woman ascribing these motivations to the PM and the media lapping it up. The first part is correct, Albanese lied, he has to address this. But whether deliberately or mistakenly, the woman is spreading a falsehood as well. This is not a 'believe all women' moment because the video shows she was incorrect. If her memory was simply faulty, then correct it. You want to become part of the political discussion, your words will be assessed and accuracy counts.

 

[phantom13]

This is what is being disputed, the video does not support this at all, but we see the narrative has taken root thanks to the woman ascribing these motivations to the PM and the media lapping it up. The first part is correct, Albanese lied, he has to address this. But whether deliberately or mistakenly, the woman is spreading a falsehood as well. This is not a 'believe all women' moment because the video shows she was incorrect. If her memory was simply faulty, then correct it. You want to become part of the political discussion, your words will be assessed and accuracy counts.

Yeh read above.

Youre wanting the exact same level of culpability and accountability from a 20 something year old rally organiser as from the PM.

That to me is absolutely insane.

 

[Forward Press]

Not the best last few days for Albo and Labor, you don't need to be a partisan hack to make that observation. Does not really matter what Sarah Williams said or did or her level of culpability or whatever, the PM is held to a different standard than most and you're losing the women vote with comments like that.

They would be banking on voters mostly forgetting about it come election time - they are already rolling out the TV ads about the positive impact of the stage 3 tax cuts.

 

[JackOutback]

Yeh read above.

Your wanting the exact same level of culpability and accountability from a 20 something year old rally organiser as from the PM.

That to me is absolutely insane.

I didn't say the same accountability, but if anyone spreads a mistruth and there is evidence of it, you fix the mistruth. If you don't, it goes from mistake to lie. That applies to everyone.