Autopsy Autopsy vs Hawthorn

[Le Grille]

New Cum , try newcombe.

Mate you dont get to play the under dog excuse here. Hawks are younger than the Roos and has less games per player.

Were very close to be on par with each other, this was a winnable game for your Roos.

The Hawks were also without Lewis and Wingard.

Of course but his point is we are going to be inconsistent too

 

[BigRedRoo]

Got beaten badly at ground level.
Zone defence was picked apart by Hawthorn kicking short.
Still better performance than anything that was put up last year.
Going to be a bumpy ride with highs, low and WTFs.
In Clarko we trust.

 

[giantroo]

 

[Souup]

Not sure whether this will be a popular perspective or not but I hate the Zurhaar into the midfield experiment.

We should be giving as much exposure to guys like Powell and Phillips - they're clearly not ready to play a full time midfield role, but you need to give them some time in there to learn and adjust to the pace of the game, particularly when Cunners, LDU and Simpkin are in the side and can carry a bigger load.

It doesn't sit well with me that Zurhaar is averaging 32% CBA while Powell is averaging 28% (inflated by 52% on the weekend) and Phillips is on the edge of best 22. I think Powell and Phillips should both be in at least 33% of our CBA's, and Zurhaar less than 15%.

While Powell and Phillips put in poor shifts on the weekend, they need to be trusted more alongside Cunners, LDU and Simpkin, not just thrown in to carry the midfield absent of 2/3 of the above.

We're not a genuine flag threat this year, and it's the perfect year to help increase midfield exposure to Powell and Phillips in particular, with Wardlaw too in the back half of the year, with guys like LDU, Simpkin and Cunners in their prime and carrying the load.

 

[Themanbun]

Not sure whether this will be a popular perspective or not but I hate the Zurhaar into the midfield experiment.

We should be giving as much exposure to guys like Powell and Phillips - they're clearly not ready to play a full time midfield role, but you need to give them some time in there to learn and adjust to the pace of the game, particularly when Cunners, LDU and Simpkin are in the side and can carry a bigger load.

It doesn't sit well with me that Zurhaar is averaging 32% CBA while Powell is averaging 28% (inflated by 52% on the weekend) and Phillips is on the edge of best 22. I think Powell and Phillips should both be in at least 33% of our CBA's, and Zurhaar less than 15%.

While Powell and Phillips put in poor shifts on the weekend, they need to be trusted more alongside Cunners, LDU and Simpkin, not just thrown in to carry the midfield absent of 2/3 of the above.

We're not a genuine flag threat this year, and it's the perfect year to help increase midfield exposure to Powell and Phillips in particular, with Wardlaw too in the back half of the year, with guys like LDU, Simpkin and Cunners in their prime and carrying the load.

Agreed.

 

[Harris 10]

Not sure whether this will be a popular perspective or not but I hate the Zurhaar into the midfield experiment.

We should be giving as much exposure to guys like Powell and Phillips - they're clearly not ready to play a full time midfield role, but you need to give them some time in there to learn and adjust to the pace of the game, particularly when Cunners, LDU and Simpkin are in the side and can carry a bigger load.

It doesn't sit well with me that Zurhaar is averaging 32% CBA while Powell is averaging 28% (inflated by 52% on the weekend) and Phillips is on the edge of best 22. I think Powell and Phillips should both be in at least 33% of our CBA's, and Zurhaar less than 15%.

While Powell and Phillips put in poor shifts on the weekend, they need to be trusted more alongside Cunners, LDU and Simpkin, not just thrown in to carry the midfield absent of 2/3 of the above.

We're not a genuine flag threat this year, and it's the perfect year to help increase midfield exposure to Powell and Phillips in particular, with Wardlaw too in the back half of the year, with guys like LDU, Simpkin and Cunners in their prime and carrying the load.

I hadn't thought about the impact on Powell and Phillips but it's a really good point.
I was more looking forward to seeing the impact Comben coming in would have on Zurhaar and Curtis to a lesser extent as it would allow them to play more suitable roles.

 

[Jasemon]

Not sure whether this will be a popular perspective or not but I hate the Zurhaar into the midfield experiment.

We should be giving as much exposure to guys like Powell and Phillips - they're clearly not ready to play a full time midfield role, but you need to give them some time in there to learn and adjust to the pace of the game, particularly when Cunners, LDU and Simpkin are in the side and can carry a bigger load.

It doesn't sit well with me that Zurhaar is averaging 32% CBA while Powell is averaging 28% (inflated by 52% on the weekend) and Phillips is on the edge of best 22. I think Powell and Phillips should both be in at least 33% of our CBA's, and Zurhaar less than 15%.

While Powell and Phillips put in poor shifts on the weekend, they need to be trusted more alongside Cunners, LDU and Simpkin, not just thrown in to carry the midfield absent of 2/3 of the above.

We're not a genuine flag threat this year, and it's the perfect year to help increase midfield exposure to Powell and Phillips in particular, with Wardlaw too in the back half of the year, with guys like LDU, Simpkin and Cunners in their prime and carrying the load.

Interesting take and usually I'd never contemplate disagreeing with anything you put forward Souup. You're my number 1 respected poster here.
I do however like the fact that Bull's fitness has risen to the point that he can now command these kind of midfield minutes. In the last few years, even moving up the ground and away from the forward line he'd be gassed by the second half. He's now at a level aerobically however that he's able to provide a mature bodied option (still only 24 years old?) and protect our kids as they develop into elite midfielders.

I do agree with you that we don't want him robbing WillPhil, Powell and later in the year Warlord of minutes there however right now I'm loving the physical presence that he provides there. We want to give the young guys as many minutes as possible but I reckon Clarko knows there needs to be a very fine balance between providing them these opportunities and having their confidence shot if they're not ready to take on the responsibility of leading the midfield. It will happen sooner rather than later though I think we can all agree.

One thing that Clarko said almost right from the beginning last year was that he needed our players to perform multiple roles. I think Zurhaar's minutes for CBAs will reduce but he'll be our DeGoey moving forward.

 

[King Corey]

Not sure whether this will be a popular perspective or not but I hate the Zurhaar into the midfield experiment.

We should be giving as much exposure to guys like Powell and Phillips - they're clearly not ready to play a full time midfield role, but you need to give them some time in there to learn and adjust to the pace of the game, particularly when Cunners, LDU and Simpkin are in the side and can carry a bigger load.

It doesn't sit well with me that Zurhaar is averaging 32% CBA while Powell is averaging 28% (inflated by 52% on the weekend) and Phillips is on the edge of best 22. I think Powell and Phillips should both be in at least 33% of our CBA's, and Zurhaar less than 15%.

While Powell and Phillips put in poor shifts on the weekend, they need to be trusted more alongside Cunners, LDU and Simpkin, not just thrown in to carry the midfield absent of 2/3 of the above.

We're not a genuine flag threat this year, and it's the perfect year to help increase midfield exposure to Powell and Phillips in particular, with Wardlaw too in the back half of the year, with guys like LDU, Simpkin and Cunners in their prime and carrying the load.

When the whips are cracking though and we're playing for more than just respect (fingers crossed) maybe it's best that Zurhaar has clocked up meaningful midfield minutes?

Otherwise we risk trying a trick move under high pressure conditions and he's too unfamiliar with how to play the pinch-hitting mid and utensils it up.

 

[shintemaster]

Not sure whether this will be a popular perspective or not but I hate the Zurhaar into the midfield experiment.

We should be giving as much exposure to guys like Powell and Phillips - they're clearly not ready to play a full time midfield role, but you need to give them some time in there to learn and adjust to the pace of the game, particularly when Cunners, LDU and Simpkin are in the side and can carry a bigger load.

It doesn't sit well with me that Zurhaar is averaging 32% CBA while Powell is averaging 28% (inflated by 52% on the weekend) and Phillips is on the edge of best 22. I think Powell and Phillips should both be in at least 33% of our CBA's, and Zurhaar less than 15%.

While Powell and Phillips put in poor shifts on the weekend, they need to be trusted more alongside Cunners, LDU and Simpkin, not just thrown in to carry the midfield absent of 2/3 of the above.

We're not a genuine flag threat this year, and it's the perfect year to help increase midfield exposure to Powell and Phillips in particular, with Wardlaw too in the back half of the year, with guys like LDU, Simpkin and Cunners in their prime and carrying the load.

Not the worst take Soup. I don't necessarily agree or disagree however I think food for thought though / devils advocate version of response:

• Zurhaar in there ultimately provides more space for Comben to learn to act as a genuine 2nd tall (Cam tends to play taller due to his size somewhat), it also means that Cunners can play more forward time which IMO is more of a struggle with Cam forward as well (ie. having Cam, Larkey, Cunnington, Comben as forwards is on the slower side with Comben still learning). This ultimately does leave more time in the middle for the younger developing players as it keeps Cunnington out of the middle more.
• It allows Clarkson and the match committee understand what assets they have for further list management decisions at end of year
• We aren’t the biggest of midfields in particular when Cunnington isn’t down there (and LDU is out)

 

[King Corey]

Here's a weird parallel. Clarkson's 1st game coaching Hawthorn vs North Melbourne.

North Melbourne	3.4	9.8	12.11	16.12	108	Sat 23-Apr-2005 2:10 pm	M.C.G.	38,764
Hawthorn	3.3	4.5	11.6	13.11	89	North Melbourne won by 19 points

Hawthorn	Match Stats	Career
#	Player	K	M	H	D	G	B	HO	T	FF	FA	AGE	GAMES	G
38	Franklin, Lance 'Buddy'	9	2	1	10	1	1	0	2	2	1	18y 83d	5	6
15	Hodge, Luke	14	5	10	24	0	0	0	1	1	1	20y 312d	50	35
40	Lewis, Jordan	7	9	7	14	0	0	0	3	0	0	18y 364d	3	0
5	Mitchell, Sam	14	3	9	23	0	1	0	1	2	0	22y 193d	54	11
35	Roughead, Jarryd	2	1	2	4	0	0	0	0	1	1	18y 90d	3	3

Some interesting 1st and 4th year players out there for Hawthorn that day.

Mitchell and Hodge had quietly reached 50 games by then.

Franklin and Roughead 1 goal and 3 marks between them. Delist?

 

[Moti]

Not sure whether this will be a popular perspective or not but I hate the Zurhaar into the midfield experiment.

We should be giving as much exposure to guys like Powell and Phillips - they're clearly not ready to play a full time midfield role, but you need to give them some time in there to learn and adjust to the pace of the game, particularly when Cunners, LDU and Simpkin are in the side and can carry a bigger load.

It doesn't sit well with me that Zurhaar is averaging 32% CBA while Powell is averaging 28% (inflated by 52% on the weekend) and Phillips is on the edge of best 22. I think Powell and Phillips should both be in at least 33% of our CBA's, and Zurhaar less than 15%.

While Powell and Phillips put in poor shifts on the weekend, they need to be trusted more alongside Cunners, LDU and Simpkin, not just thrown in to carry the midfield absent of 2/3 of the above.

We're not a genuine flag threat this year, and it's the perfect year to help increase midfield exposure to Powell and Phillips in particular, with Wardlaw too in the back half of the year, with guys like LDU, Simpkin and Cunners in their prime and carrying the load.

It is quite simple I would have thought. He is the only midfielder to have any element of speed or power in the way they play. Once LDU missed it was pretty easy to think the Hawks would crush the midfield.

Our best inside to outside mids are:

1. LDU
2. Thomas
3. Simpkin
4. Zurhaar
5. Wardlaw (expect him to be 2-3 in the next 18 months)

Only 1 played. Add to that we have not speed in the forward line, no speed on either wing and no small quick defender, we were ripe.

 

[giantroo]

 

[chubbspeterson]

Disappointing result but I kind of expected this might be a game where we're flat after two 35 degree games of high intensity and Perth trip.
They didn't give up which was a plus but it kind of shows we've got a long way to go to fill holes and depth all over the ground.
Our midfield depth is not there, Wardlaw and hopefully TT (if cleared) would help this but still think we're lacking runners (Goater may be this long term but I think its good to settle him in defense, teach him defensive side first).
Phillips was cooked by 3 qtr time, he's not quite fit enough just yet. I'm giving him time, he's barely played footy the last couple of years.
We kind of need to get Jackson Archer up and running to replace Howe long term as a lockdown defender.
Pressure forward is one area of concern too, we had little crumbing ability, perhaps worth trying an Eddie Ford who would bring energy.
I don't think we're too concerned with win/loss at this point. We're still needing more talent and have to get games into kids and need 2 or 3 more drafts to replace those who aren't going to make it. Enjoy the ride, enjoying watching the young kids develop.
We'll have some bad losses but hopefully we'll be able to be in more games against the better side, but top four might be rough ones.
Percentage is a good guide. We're 10th or 11th right now on that ladder which is not horrible, we might drop bottom 4 by end of year but let's see.

 

[franjon]

Hard to justify 3 umpires, never mind 4, when frees like this are missed. Add the powerless boundary and goal umpires, who these days are little more than quaint anachronisms. At least put the goal umps in white lab coats, FFS.....

It's idiocy, but what in the current AFL set up isn't?

 

[King Corey]

View attachment 1648819

That's a slam ****ing dunk.

North players need to have a good look at themselves, none of them could pull a coaches vote against a side that surely had some opportunities for individual wins.

Jiath bloody loves playing us.

 

[giantroo]

That's a slam ****ing dunk.

North players need to have a good look at themselves, none of them could pull a coaches vote against a side that surely had some opportunities for individual wins.

Jiath bloody loves playing us.

CJ had two touches in the 2nd half. 2! And he got votes.

 

[Le Grille]

CJ had two touches in the 2nd half. 2! And he got votes.

Did more in one than enough in one half

 

[King Corey]

CJ had two touches in the 2nd half. 2! And he got votes.

Eh... then he got 19 in the 2nd half?

Was he just kicking it to himself for 5 minutes?

Edit: Misread GR's post. CJ 2 touches in 2nd half not first

 

[giantroo]

Eh... then he got 19 in the 2nd half?

Was he just kicking it to himself for 5 minutes?

11,8,1,1.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Yeh, we saw what mckay did to lewis last year, has lewis recovered from that yet?

Been reading this thread and it's been good.

North have alot of promise and with LDU/Simpkin to return, it looks bright once again, but god you talk a lot of s**t.

Lewis dominated McKay Round 1 last year, and played injured in the 2nd time they played later in the year (Gunston dominated, and our whole team dominated you.)

But that's simple, anyway North just weren't switched on Saturday, some big outs hurts but they didn't seem like they wanted it at all.

Sheezel is an absolute star.

 

[Devington]

Did we put someone onto him in the second half then? If so they did well and were probably part of the reason we got so close for a moment?

 

[Themanbun]

CJ had two touches in the 2nd half. 2! And he got votes.

Yep, Clarko helped shut him down which brought us back into the match.

 

[tazaa]

Here's a weird parallel. Clarkson's 1st game coaching Hawthorn vs North Melbourne.

North Melbourne	3.4	9.8	12.11	16.12	108	Sat 23-Apr-2005 2:10 pm	M.C.G.	38,764
Hawthorn	3.3	4.5	11.6	13.11	89	North Melbourne won by 19 points

#	Player	K	M	H	D	G	B	HO	T	FF	FA	AGE	GAMES	G
Hawthorn	Match Stats	Career
38	Franklin, Lance 'Buddy'	9	2	1	10	1	1	0	2	2	1	18y 83d	5	6
15	Hodge, Luke	14	5	10	24	0	0	0	1	1	1	20y 312d	50	35
40	Lewis, Jordan	7	9	7	14	0	0	0	3	0	0	18y 364d	3	0
5	Mitchell, Sam	14	3	9	23	0	1	0	1	2	0	22y 193d	54	11
35	Roughead, Jarryd	2	1	2	4	0	0	0	0	1	1	18y 90d	3	3

Some interesting 1st and 4th year players out there for Hawthorn that day.

Mitchell and Hodge had quietly reached 50 games by then.

Franklin and Roughead 1 goal and 3 marks between them. Delist?

Remember this game. Rocked up half way through the first quarter cause of a train delay. Mark Williams got ahold of us if I recall correctly.
Was a warm day at the G too

 

[SonofSamsquanch]

Was he just kicking it to himself for 5 minutes?

He didn't need to. North were hitting him on the chest for most of the first half. CJ was smart enough to just stand in front of the North forwards who seemed to be waiting for miracle bounces over his head to pick up the odd Joe the Goose.

 

[Passmore]

All due respect to Dan Howe, but if he's your equal second highest possession winner with 21, you ain't beating anyone.

It's remarkable that we were within 3 in the last qtr.

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