Carey or Ablett

[My Tilly]

I have always wondered how Pagan's paddock would have panned out with Ablett, Longmire and McKernan to do as they please.

Asked Denis this question directly and he said Ablett would have gone alright indeed.

 

[Cleansweep17]

I have always wondered how Pagan's paddock would have panned out with Ablett, Longmire and McKernan to do as they please.

Asked Denis this question directly and he said Ablett would have gone alright indeed.

Why did Ablett move to FF so late in his career? Genuinely interested.

Was your coach stubborn or did GAS not realise that he was more effective there?

 

[PhatBoy]

Why did Ablett move to FF so late in his career? Genuinely interested.

Was your coach stubborn or did GAS not realise that he was more effective there?

We had an All Australian level full forward by the name of Bill Brownless who had back to back 80 goal seasons, another elite key forward called Barry Stoneman who many people believe had the capability to be something similar to Carey himself before he snapped his leg in two, and other key forwards like Bruce Lindnder who had 60+ goal seasons. Ablett played as a winger/half forward while those players spent more time in the stay at home positions. Malcolm Blight took over in 1989 and immediately we made a grand final keeping him where he was. It didn’t work the next year.
It did in 92 when he stayed further from goal and Brownless played as FF and they made the GF.

After that he shifted permanently to FF and he kicked 120-odd goals in 17 games in 1993.

 

[Cleansweep17]

We had an All Australian level full forward by the name of Bill Brownless who had back to back 80 goal seasons, another elite key forward called Barry Stoneman who many people believe had the capability to be something similar to Carey himself before he snapped his leg in two, and other key forwards like Bruce Lindnder who had 60+ goal seasons. Ablett played as a winger/half forward while those players spent more time in the stay at home positions. Malcolm Blight took over in 1989 and immediately we made a grand final keeping him where he was. It didn’t work the next year.
It did in 92 when he stayed further from goal and Brownless played as FF and they made the GF.

After that he shifted permanently to FF and he kicked 120-odd goals in 17 games in 1993.

Ah ok, which position do you think he was better at?

 

[PhatBoy]

Ah ok, which position do you think he was better at?

I didn’t understand the nuances of the game enough while he was a roaming player to know what he was ‘better’ at as I was 6-10 when he was playing that role. Beyond someone like Matthews I find it hard to imagine that someone could be as effective at playing up the field and still hitting the scoreboard so hard.

But the instant he went forward and stayed forward he topped the charts and it was pretty obvious how damaging he was so maybe he should have started there and stayed there.

 

[Toppa]

Couldn't go wrong with either selection but I personally would pick Carey just for the leadership factor.

GAS was a cheat code. He was doing things no one else could or was at the time. I'm not talking about overall numbers or averages. You just had to watch and see he was 'different'

Carey was a monster and classical CHF that really had no peer for a decade. considering his shoulders were shot pretty early on in his career and he was almost left to a chest marking player is testament to just how good he was.

 

[Vdubs]

Ah ok, which position do you think he was better at?

185 cm, 85 kg in his earlier days as a roaming hff, winger, hbf, utility.
185 cm, over 100 kg at the end, when he was over 32 and stay home FF.
Having watched all his games and highlights packages, it is evident he was used where he was needed. Goals were always part of his contribution, no matter where he played.

When running over the ground was no longer as easy, he excelled as a >120 goal a year FF 3 years consecutively.
Freak.
Clearly my GOAT.

 

[My Tilly]

But the instant he went forward and stayed forward he topped the charts and it was pretty obvious how damaging he was so maybe he should have started there and stayed there.

I think he was more effective as a half forward to be honest. I know records were broken from 1993 onward but he was pigeon-holed at full forward. On numerous occasions he had multiple defenders to contend with and there's no better example of this than the 1995 grand final where Dean, Sexton and Silvagni mauling him time and time again.

Between 85-92, he was breathtaking. Arguably the most dominant half forward flanker in the history of the game. People say he was selfish but you only have to watch some of those games on YouTube to get a clearer picture of what he was a footballer.

 

[Cleansweep17]

I think he was more effective as a half forward to be honest. I know records were broken from 1993 onward but he was pigeon-holed at full forward. On numerous occasions he had multiple defenders to contend with and there's no better example of this than the 1995 grand final where Dean, Sexton and Silvagni mauling him time and time again.

Between 85-92, he was breathtaking. Arguably the most dominant half forward flanker in the history of the game. People say he was selfish but you only have to watch some of those games on YouTube to get a clearer picture of what he was a footballer.

Now I’m not trying to have a go or anything, but was this really true? He wasn’t on the field in the team of the century and by what you Geelong guys are saying it doesn’t seem to make sense to me why he wouldn’t be on the field. Am I missing something?

 

[My Tilly]

Now I’m not trying to have a go or anything, but was this really true? He wasn’t on the field in the team of the century and by what you Geelong guys are saying it doesn’t seem to make sense to me why he wouldn’t be on the field. Am I missing something?

lol, you are the biggest troll on this website.
Not even Lockett could make the final cut.

 

[Mr Meow]

Now I’m not trying to have a go or anything, but was this really true? He wasn’t on the field in the team of the century and by what you Geelong guys are saying it doesn’t seem to make sense to me why he wouldn’t be on the field. Am I missing something?

Personally I will never be able to give an account of how Ablett Senior compared to Dick Reynolds or Alex Jesaulenko - the two men on the flanks in the team of the 20th century. They were before my time.

No one has played the position better since Ablett debuted though, that's for sure. Much like Carey as a CHF. This is the sort of level we're talking about.

 

[My Tilly]

Personally I will never be able to give an account of how Ablett Senior compared to Dick Reynolds or Alex Jesaulenko - the two men on the flanks in the team of the 20th century. They were before my time.

No one has played the position better since Ablett debuted though, that's for sure. Much like Carey as a CHF. This is the sort of level we're talking about.

Ask Carlton supporters who saw Jesa and they usually admit Ablett was the better player.

Jesa is rarely spoken about today. He and Malcolm Blight helped path the way for the explosive medium sized forward capable of playing multiple positions.

 

[PhatBoy]

Now I’m not trying to have a go or anything, but was this really true? He wasn’t on the field in the team of the century and by what you Geelong guys are saying it doesn’t seem to make sense to me why he wouldn’t be on the field. Am I missing something?

for the same reason that if you picked a team of the millennium so far, Adam Goodes who is, in my eyes anyway, easily in the best dozen players of this quarter century, probably won’t be in the starting side. He’s not enough of one thing or the other.

It’s a giant leap to make, clearly - but you could - COULD - mount an argument to say that Ablett may have had 7, 8, 9 100-goal seasons if he spent his career at full forward.

Dunstall had 6 and was relatively injury free in a great side.
Lockett had 5 albeit he had some really shortened seasons due to injury so he could have easily had a lot more too.

On that basis you’d be looking at a clear candidate for a starting spot.

Equally if he never moved there and spent his whole career as a flanker and managed to kick say 800 goals doing it which is pretty superhuman in itself, then maybe he gets a start: Jesaulenko and Reynolds, legendary as they were, had goal tallies in the 400s.

Remember too the guy they actually picked at full forward averaged 5.5 goals a game - though GAS kicked 444 from 81 games during the period ‘officially’ recognised as his time in the position. I doubt he could have done that for his entire career though

 

[Cleansweep17]

lol, you are the biggest troll on this website.
Not even Lockett could make the final cut.

You see this is the problem. I asked a legit question and you think I’m trolling.

Why would a GOAT not get picked on the field in the team of the century?

You mentioned Lockett. I can see why he wouldn’t the team was selected in 1996 and he kept playing for many years after.

This is the same for Carey as well.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Personally I will never be able to give an account of how Ablett Senior compared to Dick Reynolds or Alex Jesaulenko - the two men on the flanks in the team of the 20th century. They were before my time.

No one has played the position better since Ablett debuted though, that's for sure. Much like Carey as a CHF. This is the sort of level we're talking about.

Nobody talks up Reynolds or Jesaulenko as the GOATs do they?

But they were selected over GAS. Why do you think that is? Stats,success,eye-test? Or do you think the whole TOC is bogus?

 

[Cleansweep17]

for the same reason that if you picked a team of the millennium so far, Adam Goodes who is, in my eyes anyway, easily in the best dozen players of this quarter century, probably won’t be in the starting side. He’s not enough of one thing or the other.

It’s a giant leap to make, clearly - but you could - COULD - mount an argument to say that Ablett may have had 7, 8, 9 100-goal seasons if he spent his career at full forward.

Dunstall had 6 and was relatively injury free in a great side.
Lockett had 5 albeit he had some really shortened seasons due to injury so he could have easily had a lot more too.

On that basis you’d be looking at a clear candidate for a starting spot.

Equally if he never moved there and spent his whole career as a flanker and managed to kick say 800 goals doing it which is pretty superhuman in itself, then maybe he gets a start: Jesaulenko and Reynolds, legendary as they were, had goal tallies in the 400s.

Remember too the guy they actually picked at full forward averaged 5.5 goals a game - though GAS kicked 444 from 81 games during the period ‘officially’ recognised as his time in the position. I doubt he could have done that for his entire career though

That makes sense for the FF position but not the HF Flank where he spent most of his career and was apparently the best ever at it according to you guys. So why wasn’t he picked? I’m a little confused.

 

[PhatBoy]

That makes sense for the FF position but not the HF Flank where he spent most of his career and was apparently the best ever at it according to you guys. So why wasn’t he picked? I’m a little confused.

Why wasn’t Leigh Matthews picked as a midfielder when that was his proper position?

Yes we all know he kicked a tonne of goals and was an outstandingly capable forward when he went into the forward 50 but he was a midfielder primarily.

 

[Mr Meow]

Nobody talks up Reynolds or Jesaulenko as the GOATs do they?

But they were selected over GAS. Why do you think that is? Stats,success,eye-test? Or do you think the whole TOC is bogus?

Unlike you I don't give unqualified opinions on things I have no idea about.

I have only ever framed the "best" players positionally from what I have seen. Me talking about Jesa would have as much substance as you talking about 2007 GAJ or 1989 GAS.

Guessing and framing to a very obvious one eyed bias is not what I consider useful football discussion. That is a really low quality approach open to ridicule.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Unlike you I don't give unqualified opinions on things I have no idea about.

I have only ever framed the "best" players positionally from what I have seen. Me talking about Jesa would have as much substance as you talking about 2007 GAJ or 1989 GAS.

Guessing and framing to a very obvious one eyed bias is not what I consider useful football discussion. That is a really low quality approach open to ridicule.

So why don’t you take the experts word for it then like I do? They saw all/most of them play and looked at records/stats you and I probably don’t even know about. Not do mention their footy knowledge is vastly superior to ours.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Why wasn’t Leigh Matthews picked as a midfielder when that was his proper position?

Yes we all know he kicked a tonne of goals and was an outstandingly capable forward when he went into the forward 50 but he was a midfielder primarily.

Same reason Dusty was put as a small forward in the 2020 AA team.

They were hybrid players that could play in either position. The selectors then put them in that position to strengthen the overall look of the team.

GAS as well was a hybrid player. Yet didn’t get selected in either position when as you said he was the best Flanker and FF when up there. So why didn’t he get selected do you think?

I have my theories, I’d like to know yours.

 

[Mr Meow]

So why don’t you take the experts word for it then like I do? They saw all/most of them play and looked at records/stats you and I probably don’t even know about. Not do mention their footy knowledge is vastly superior to ours.

I obviously am not obsessive about the periods of football before I was around, unlike you. I don't have deep underlying insecurities that make me feel the need to guess how GAS compared to Reynolds.

It's curious that it's taken you this long to realise my comparisons and discussions involve players I have watched enough of to pass some sort of informed comment on.

Your posts, on the other hand, are tired trolling attempts with the backdrop of NEEDING others to rate these footballers lower. And that stems from an obsession over Dustin Martins status.

It is pathological. Yes, yes I know. "Time for another report". Saddo.

 

[Cleansweep17]

I obviously am not obsessive about the periods of football before I was around, unlike you. I don't have deep underlying insecurities that make me feel the need to guess how GAS compared to Reynolds.

It's curious that it's taken you this long to realise my comparisons and discussions involve players I have watched enough of to pass some sort of informed comment on.

Your posts, on the other hand, are tired trolling attempts with the backdrop of NEEDING others to rate these footballers lower. And that stems from an obsession over Dustin Martins status.

It is pathological. Yes, yes I know. "Time for another report". Saddo.

So you think that GAS is the GOAT without feeling the need to compare him to other players before him? This is starting to make sense now.

If you are picking a GOAT candidate who played their entire career from 1996 or before such as GAS. Step 1 would be to see if they at a minimum made the field in the team of the 20th century as it ensures they played their position better than anybody else at the time. Obviously.

If you were indeed an objective supporter as you keep saying. The debate would end there. Nothing of the above of what I have said is unreasonable. It actually makes quite a lot of sense unless of course it disqualifies the player you like.

So linking back to the thread, the AFL doesn’t recognise GAS as better than any of the 6 fwds in the TOC fwd line. So how could GAS possibly be thought of as better than Carey. It is truely baffling. It’s a purely emotional view to believe otherwise, that’s why most of what I’ve heard from pro Ablett people is that he looked cool.

 

[Mr Meow]

So you think that GAS is the GOAT without feeling the need to compare him to other players before him? This is starting to make sense now.

If you are picking a GOAT candidate who played their entire career from 1996 or before such as GAS. Step 1 would be to see if they at a minimum made the field in the team of the 20th century as it ensures they played their position better than anybody else at the time. For obvious reasons.

If you were indeed an objective supporter as you keep saying. The debate would end there. Nothing of the above of what I have said is unreasonable. It actually makes quite a lot of sense unless of course it disqualifies the player you like.

So linking back to the thread, the AFL doesn’t recognise GAS as better than any of the 6 fwds in the TOC fwd line. So how could GAS possibly be thought of as better than Carey. It is truely baffling. It’s a purely emotional view to believe otherwise, that’s why most of what I’ve heard from pro Ablett people is that he looked cool.

I have never once said GAS is the GOAT.

I'm not even bothering to read the rest of your ramble.

 

[Cleansweep17]

I have never once said GAS is the GOAT.

I'm not even bothering to read the rest of your ramble.

You read the rest of it. We all know it.

You won’t respond because it’s a slam dunk answer to the thread (whether you believe he’s the GOAT or not). Since GAS is not officially recognised as better than even Jesa and Co by the AFL then he’s not better than Carey. The End.

 

[PhatBoy]

Same reason Dusty was put as a small forward in the 2020 AA team.

They were hybrid players that could play in either position. The selectors then put them in that position to strengthen the overall look of the team.

GAS as well was a hybrid player. Yet didn’t get selected in either position when as you said he was the best Flanker and FF when up there. So why didn’t he get selected do you think?

I have my theories, I’d like to know yours.

When I just gave it to you explicitly you ignored it. Twice.