Carey or Ablett

[Cleansweep17]

When I just gave it to you explicitly you ignored it. Twice.

That he wasn’t as good at either like Adam Goodes?

Fair enough, but it’s contradictory to what you and these other guys have been saying.

 

[Mr Meow]

You read the rest of it. We all know it.

You won’t respond because it’s a slam dunk answer to the thread (whether you believe he’s the GOAT or not). Since GAS is not officially recognised as better than even Jesa and Co by the AFL then he’s not better than Carey. The End.

Looks like more boring nonsense as you're not getting the reaction you desire.

Your posts all come across as desperate attempts to convince yourself. Why you actually NEED to feel like certain players before your time are ranked below certain other players before your time - it's truly interesting.

I just give you a nudge and the insanity continues.

Anyway, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about which is your default mode. Come back when you've gone through and watched GAS + Carey's careers. Even the stuff freely available would be a start.

 

[Mr Meow]

That he wasn’t as good at either like Adam Goodes?

Fair enough, but it’s contradictory to what you and these other guys have been saying.

To give you an idea of how absurd your obsession over this topic is, it would be the equivalent of me trying to convince everyone that Dick Reynolds was a better player than Royce Hart.

Utterly pointless.

 

[PhatBoy]

That he wasn’t as good at either like Adam Goodes?

Fair enough, but it’s contradictory to what you and these other guys have been saying.

No, that he wasn’t enough of one thing or another so they can put him wherever they feel like.

Additionally - and you seem to have no appreciation for this sort of thing beyond your own club - when you name fantasy teams or even real teams (state of origin in rugby league is an example) there are many many times when better qualified players get pushed aside for others because the other player only plays one role. Jonathon Thurston is regarded by many as the best halfback of the last 25 years. He didn’t even get to play halfback in his own state team because Cooper Cronk wore the number 7. Thurston played five eighth instead.

Jesaulenko was one of the most iconic players of all time. Even as a 7 year old growing up in New South Wales I knew that. He only played one position. So you pick him in that position.

They’ve already picked Reynolds in the other half forward spot: he’s not even a half forward really but he’s a three time Brownlow medalist so you can’t really leave him out and that’s where they’ve chosen to put him.

Ok so you have a player with 1000 goals who did it starting as a wing/half forward who then moved to full forward and kicked 450 goals in three and a half seasons: gee where can we put him if we’ve got the guy the Coleman medal is named after at full forward.

I know, we can put him in the spots reserved for the guys we couldn’t find a specialist position for, as he didn’t have a specialist position

 

[My Tilly]

Stop feeding the troll

 

[Cleansweep17]

To give you an idea of how absurd your obsession over this topic is, it would be the equivalent of me trying to convince everyone that Dick Reynolds was a better player than Royce Hart.

Utterly pointless.

I’m not too sure on them. But why would it be absurd. Both in the TOC and AFL Legend Status. That alone puts them in the same tier.

 

[Cleansweep17]

No, that he wasn’t enough of one thing or another so they can put him wherever they feel like.

Additionally - and you seem to have no appreciation for this sort of thing beyond your own club - when you name fantasy teams or even real teams (state of origin in rugby league is an example) there are many many times when better qualified players get pushed aside for others because the other player only plays one role. Jonathon Thurston is regarded by many as the best halfback of the last 25 years. He didn’t even get to play halfback in his own state team because Cooper Cronk wore the number 7. Thurston played five eighth instead.

Jesaulenko was one of the most iconic players of all time. Even as a 7 year old growing up in New South Wales I knew that. He only played one position. So you pick him in that position.

They’ve already picked Reynolds in the other half forward spot: he’s not even a half forward really but he’s a three time Brownlow medalist so you can’t really leave him out and that’s where they’ve chosen to put him.

Ok so you have a player with 1000 goals who did it starting as a wing/half forward who then moved to full forward and kicked 450 goals in three and a half seasons: gee where can we put him if we’ve got the guy the Coleman medal is named after at full forward.

I know, we can put him in the spots reserved for the guys we couldn’t find a specialist position for, as he didn’t have a specialist position

But again he was apparently the best winger ever. So it’s contradictory to your statement that he wasn’t enough of one thing or the other. His body of work/skill is enough to be eligible for that spot I mean a few players didn’t play 200 or even 100 games and still got in the team.

HF flanker by definition is a hybrid player anyway. It’s exactly the role GAS played. If what you guys say is true it should’ve been a slam dunk. He didn’t get voted the best player of the century either. Nor is Legend status in the HOF.

If you actually look at his official standing in the AFL it clearly shows he isn’t at the absolute top of the tree like you claim. If he had these awards I wouldn’t even be arguing with you about it. I’m not having a go, it’s just common sense.

 

[PhatBoy]

But again he was apparently the best winger ever. So it’s contradictory to your statement that he wasn’t enough of one thing or the other. His body of work/skill is enough to be eligible for that spot I mean a few players didn’t play 200 or even 100 games and still got in the team.

HF flanker by definition is a hybrid player anyway. It’s exactly the role GAS played. If what you guys say is true it should’ve been a slam dunk. He didn’t get voted the best player of the century either. Nor is Legend status in the HOF.

If you actually look at his official standing in the AFL it clearly shows he isn’t at the absolute top of the tree like you claim. If he had these awards I wouldn’t even be arguing with you about it. I’m not having a go, it’s just common sense.

This really does seem to upset you a lot more than it upsets anyone else doesn’t it.

 

[STPer18]

Couldn't imagine caring so much about the standing of a player who retired before I was even born.

 

[Chadwiko]

Grew up watching both.

Ablett undeniably one of the greatest ever, but Carey was better.

Carey could absolutely take over a game unlike anyone else. And if the ball wasn't finding him, he'd go find the ball. That's what elevates him above Ablett.

 

[Cleansweep17]

This really does seem to upset you a lot more than it upsets anyone else doesn’t it.

I’m asking you to explain your rational.

I’m starting to realise you’ve just got an emotive argument rather than a logical one. It’s not an issue but just admit it.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Couldn't imagine caring so much about the standing of a player who retired before I was even born.

Of course you don’t, Geelong were trash back then

 

[STPer18]

Of course you don’t, Geelong were trash back then

I was referring to you. You weren't even old enough to see Ablett Jnr at his prime so I don't get your sickly fascination with his father.

 

[PhatBoy]

I’m asking you to explain your rational.

I’m starting to realise you’ve just got an emotive argument rather than a logical one. It’s not an issue but just admit it.

I did, and you don’t seem to like it.
A guy who was retired for two years was picked in a team of players representative of a century of football in a position often used for players who can cover two-three spots and you don’t seem to be able to grasp this.

And you seem utterly obsessed by it.

 

[Mr Meow]

I was referring to you. You weren't even old enough to see Ablett Jnr at his prime so I don't get your sickly fascination with his father.

The scenario is the same as currently being a mid 20s Pies fan with a Carlton obsession, who then spends all day every day trying to downgrade SOS and Jesaulenko.

Obsessions are fine. We can call that human nature. Unqualified obsessions about eras before your time? That's more like being a jaded historian who still truly believes the Earth is flat.

 

[Cleansweep17]

I was referring to you. You weren't even old enough to see Ablett Jnr at his prime so I don't get your sickly fascination with his father.

I saw GAJ play at the GC wdym?

 

[Cleansweep17]

I did, and you don’t seem to like it.
A guy who was retired for two years was picked in a team of players representative of a century of football in a position often used for players who can cover two-three spots and you don’t seem to be able to grasp this.

And you seem utterly obsessed by it.

The players who get picked on the AA bench are the second tier players. Same deal here. GAS was not a utility like Goodes or Pavlich he was a specialist HF/FF. Yet he was not good in enough in either to be picked.

On the other hand you can bet your bottom dollar Carey would’ve been the CHF if the team wasn’t picked in 1996.

That’s it really.

 

[Cleansweep17]

The scenario is the same as currently being a mid 20s Pies fan with a Carlton obsession, who then spends all day every day trying to downgrade SOS and Jesaulenko.

Obsessions are fine. We can call that human nature. Unqualified obsessions about eras before your time? That's more like being a jaded historian who still truly believes the Earth is flat.

“Unqualified obsessions” do you even English bro

 

[Mr Meow]

“Unqualified obsessions” do you even English bro

You've admitted you struggle with the English language. "Do you even English bro" has at least 3 grammatical errors.

So a qualified obsession would be like an expert. But we can scale that back to someone who has seen a lot of stuff on that topic and has big opinions that they are passionate about. Backed up by facts and first hand knowledge.

Unqualified? When the person has absolutely no idea. Where it's odd for them to be so obsessed in the first place.

Furious indignation on the Ablett's standing in the game firmly fits into this unqualified obsession category. Similar to if I started spending 10 hours a day screeching "Coventry wasn't that good".

 

[PhatBoy]

The players who get picked on the AA bench are the second tier players. Same deal here. GAS was not a utility like Goodes or Pavlich he was a specialist HF/FF. Yet he was not good in enough in either to be picked.

On the other hand you can bet your bottom dollar Carey would’ve been the CHF if the team wasn’t picked in 1996.

That’s it really.

Yeah but they’re not, are they. They’re often the most versatile whereas Alex Jesaulenko could only play one position so has to be picked there.

Oh it was picked in 1996. My mistake. So he wasn’t even a year retired if he even was retired. Oh well he must have been very poor.

 

[My Tilly]

The players who get picked on the AA bench are the second tier players. Same deal here. GAS was not a utility like Goodes or Pavlich he was a specialist HF/FF. Yet he was not good in enough in either to be picked.

On the other hand you can bet your bottom dollar Carey would’ve been the CHF if the team wasn’t picked in 1996.

That’s it really.

Ablett was a utility.
He played half back, wing, half forward and full forward. I reckon he also attempted more shots on goal from a ruck contest than any other player in the modern era.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Ablett was the more mercurial but Carey was the player you built the team around and has the flags to show for it. Probably should've had 3 but they threw away the 98 flag. Yeah he might've had a better team around him too but those early 90s Cats teams were no slouches either.

Ablett will always be remembered for the 89 GF but he basically went AWOL in 94 and 95. Just checked on AFL tables, 13 kicks, 3 handballs and 1 goal 5 behinds for both GFs combined.

 

[Mr Meow]

Ablett was the more mercurial but Carey was the player you built the team around and has the flags to show for it. Probably should've had 3 but they threw away the 98 flag. Yeah he might've had a better team around him too but those early 90s Cats teams were no slouches either.

Ablett will always be remembered for the 89 GF but he basically went AWOL in 94 and 95. Just checked on AFL tables, 13 kicks, 3 handballs and 1 goal 5 behinds for both GFs combined.

If he'd kicked 5.1 sure it'd look better but would've had no material impact on the games.

Those "contests" were absolute end to end maulings. A 34 year old full forward being double or triple teamed against that quality of opposition was never going to be able to excel. Yes he stacked up plenty of goals those years, but that was still on the premise of Geelong being a good and competitive side.

The two grand finals where Geelong had a semblance of competitive spirit and Ablett had his full athletic repertoire, he went:

-15 disposals, 8 marks, 9 goals, man of the match (against an outstanding side)
-17 disposals, 4 marks, 3 goals (against a very good side)

In a lower disposal era. 15 plus for Ablett was pretty damaging. Most of those are probably ending in score involvements.

 

[Captain_Bender]

Yeah but they’re not, are they. They’re often the most versatile whereas Alex Jesaulenko could only play one position so has to be picked there.

Oh it was picked in 1996. My mistake. So he wasn’t even a year retired if he even was retired. Oh well he must have been very poor.

Alex Jesaulenko played multiple positions, played in grand finals at the HFF, FF and centre and also played down back

 

[Captain_Bender]

If he'd kicked 5.1 sure it'd look better but would've had no material impact on the games.

Those "contests" were absolute end to end maulings. A 34 year old full forward being double or triple teamed against that quality of opposition was never going to be able to excel. Yes he stacked up plenty of goals those years, but that was still on the premise of Geelong being a good and competitive side.

The two grand finals where Geelong had a semblance of competitive spirit and Ablett had his full athletic repertoire, he went:

-15 disposals, 8 marks, 9 goals, man of the match (against an outstanding side)
-17 disposals, 4 marks, 3 goals (against a very good side)

In a lower disposal era. 15 plus for Ablett was pretty damaging. Most of those are probably ending in score involvements.

Pretty average game