Club Focus Collingwood - Henry, Macrae, McInnes, Poulter, McMahon, McCreery, Ginnivan, Chugg

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Nov 28, 2014
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Wow how did this happen, IIRC last year Collingwood inquired as to what it would take for GCS to give up pick one, presumably so they could draft Matt Rowell, GCS came back with Adam Traloar, If the Pies knew, which you would assume they did, how much trouble they were in, regarding the salary cap, why didn’t this deal get done, GCS would of probably paid all of Traloar’s contract and the Pies would have Rowell on there books.
The only reason I can see, as to why this deal didn’t get done, is Traloar understandably not wanting to go, but what Traloar wanted seems to have mattered very little to Collingwood this year.
Talk about sliding doors, smh big time.
 
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Kapers

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Very quickly, I wanted to raise a question here, and a possible solution to salary cap issues for x club (maybe what Collingwood could of done?).

Assuming a player can be traded multiple times.

Scenario - player A is paid $500,000, team x wants to play them $300,000.

Solution - trade player A to team y for say pick 30, then trade player A back to team x, but team y pays $200,000 and receives a higher pick, say 15.

Outcome - team y loses $200,000 on their salary cap to upgrade pick 30 to 15, team x gains $200,000 but downgrade a pick from 15 to 30. Essentially trading picks for money.

Is there any reason a team couldn't do this?
 

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Prochard123

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Wow how did this happen, IIRC last year Collingwood inquired as to what it would take for GCS to give up pick one, presumably so they could draft Matt Rowell, GCS came back with Adam Tralore, If the Pies knew, which you would assume they did, how much trouble they were in, regarding the salary cap, why didn’t this deal get done, GCS would of probably paid all of Tralore’s contract and the Pies would have Rowell on there books.
The only reason I can see, as to why this deal didn’t get done, is Tralore understandably not wanting to go, but what Tralore wanted seems to have mattered very little to Collingwood this year.
Talk about sliding doors, smh big time.
Because you don't trade an A grade mid when you missed out on grand final by less than a goal.

Not that you lot would know what that's like.
 

huggy_b

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Very quickly, I wanted to raise a question here, and a possible solution to salary cap issues for x club (maybe what Collingwood could of done?).

Assuming a player can be traded multiple times.

Scenario - player A is paid $500,000, team x wants to play them $300,000.

Solution - trade player A to team y for say pick 30, then trade player A back to team x, but team y pays $200,000 and receives a higher pick, say 15.

Outcome - team y loses $200,000 on their salary cap to upgrade pick 30 to 15, team x gains $200,000 but downgrade a pick from 15 to 30. Essentially trading picks for money.

Is there any reason a team couldn't do this?

There's no reason why it can't happen, but why would the team x "gift" team y a draft upgrade when the sole reason to move the player is to dump salary from their mismanaged TPP?
 

Kapers

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There's no reason why it can't happen, but why would the team x "gift" team y a draft upgrade when the sole reason to move the player is to dump salary from their mismanaged TPP?
That's the trade, you want to keep the player, so you give up some picks to offload money.

As a swans supporter, maybe we offload $500,000 for pick 3 and pick up another expensive player.

Or a top team can expand their salary cap to keep their premiership window open by trading out picks.

Or a team like North, who would almost certainly be under the cap with their delistings, could try to get a few extra picks by taking a few $ off other clubs.

Easily see a situation where Collingwood trades out next year first for some cap space, and North get another top pick and get to the salary floor. This means Collingwood could keep all they're players, and hence their premiership window.
 

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Because you don't trade an A grade mid when you missed out on grand final by less than a goal.

Not that you lot would know what that's like.
If you’re salary cap is that out of control, then all that means nothing.
I could understand this kind of thing creeping up on a club pre 2000, but modern football clubs are so professionally run these days, it’s hard to fathom how this could possibly happen.
I feel for Collingwood supporters, when we lost our draft picks it did so much damage to our club in so many ways and it’s us supporters who feel the pain the most, whoever is involved in the clubs list management should be sacked immediately or even better, be a man and come out and say I messed up apologise and resign.
 

Prochard123

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If you’re salary cap is that out of control, then all that means nothing.
I could understand this kind of thing creeping up on a club pre 2000, but modern football clubs are so professionally run these days, it’s hard to fathom how this could possibly happen.
I feel for Collingwood supporters, when we lost our draft picks it did so much damage to our club in so many ways and it’s us supporters who feel the pain the most, whoever is involved in the clubs list management should be sacked immediately or even better, be a man and come out and say I messed up apologise and resign.
Yes list managers did an appalling job at trading the players.

But what part of going all in when you're a prime premiership contender is so hard to understand?

Should Geelong not have spent 3x 1st round picks on Cameron when he could be the difference between a premiership and years of unfulfilled potential?
 

Old navy

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Yes list managers did an appalling job at trading the players.

But what part of going all in when you're a prime premiership contender is so hard to understand?
I do get the concept, from an outsiders perspective Pies midfield is pretty stacked, I can see that Traloar does offer a point of difference, with what he brings to that midfield, but the club knew he was coming into some big dollar contract years, Pies also knew the cap pressure would well and truly be on, that’s the reason why they approached Gold Coast in the first place, when GCS nominated Traloar as the player they’d want for pick one, it’s really one of best outcomes you could realistically have hoped for due to Traloar’s 900000k a year contract and the fact that you’d still have a dominant midfield even without Traloar.
Members should be asking were does the buck stop with that decision and then except nothing less then that person or persons resignation, it’s too big a mistake for the club to expect it to just blow over, supporters deserve transparency and accountability.
 

Laphroaig

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Very quickly, I wanted to raise a question here, and a possible solution to salary cap issues for x club (maybe what Collingwood could of done?).

Assuming a player can be traded multiple times.

Scenario - player A is paid $500,000, team x wants to play them $300,000.

Solution - trade player A to team y for say pick 30, then trade player A back to team x, but team y pays $200,000 and receives a higher pick, say 15.

Outcome - team y loses $200,000 on their salary cap to upgrade pick 30 to 15, team x gains $200,000 but downgrade a pick from 15 to 30. Essentially trading picks for money.

Is there any reason a team couldn't do this?
There's no reason why it can't happen, but why would the team x "gift" team y a draft upgrade when the sole reason to move the player is to dump salary from their mismanaged TPP?
I think you will find that trade rules prohibit a traded player from being traded again before the next year's trade period.
 

Kreuuuzeurns

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Also funny how the tune has compleely changed. For the best part of 2 years, I've seen fans bash Treloar for his inside 50 entry and the same goes for Phillips. Plenty of Pies fans also teed off at Stephenson this year and now the three are gone, they are suddenly treated as top 5 players in the comp. No doubt we got some big unders on them but they were the right players to move on. Personally, I'm most annoyed about Atu.
The whole story has never been about the individual players, it’s been about the how and the why.

You signed Treloar up until 2025 and kept pushing his agreed money back, using his loyalty against him, only to shaft him and use his wife as an excuse as to why he needed to be out the door.

Stephenson didn’t even know he was up for trade until a few days before it happened and had to call Bucks himself to get an explanation. Atu was another promising kid who had shown a bit, thrown away for peanuts.

Phillips seems the only one who was handled well. Replace any of those names with four other names and it’s still the same embarrassing story. Starts at the head who will never be challenged.
 

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Scratchy05

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The whole story has never been about the individual players, it’s been about the how and the why.

You signed Treloar up until 2025 and kept pushing his agreed money back, using his loyalty against him, only to shaft him and use his wife as an excuse as to why he needed to be out the door.

Stephenson didn’t even know he was up for trade until a few days before it happened and had to call Bucks himself to get an explanation. Atu was another promising kid who had shown a bit, thrown away for peanuts.

Phillips seems the only one who was handled well. Replace any of those names with four other names and it’s still the same embarrassing story. Starts at the head who will never be challenged.
Oh I agree. THe whole situation was handled abysmally. But plenty of people have been complaining we lost players that have frustrated supporters for 1-2 years for too little when we had to move them on. THat is the part I don't get. Atu as well to me makes the least amount of sense. He would be on the minimum and almost an asset to our cap space yet we traded him.
 

THE_GUN

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Very quickly, I wanted to raise a question here, and a possible solution to salary cap issues for x club (maybe what Collingwood could of done?).

Assuming a player can be traded multiple times.

Scenario - player A is paid $500,000, team x wants to play them $300,000.

Solution - trade player A to team y for say pick 30, then trade player A back to team x, but team y pays $200,000 and receives a higher pick, say 15.

Outcome - team y loses $200,000 on their salary cap to upgrade pick 30 to 15, team x gains $200,000 but downgrade a pick from 15 to 30. Essentially trading picks for money.

Is there any reason a team couldn't do this?
There's no reason why it can't happen, but why would the team x "gift" team y a draft upgrade when the sole reason to move the player is to dump salary from their mismanaged TPP?
That's the trade, you want to keep the player, so you give up some picks to offload money.

As a swans supporter, maybe we offload $500,000 for pick 3 and pick up another expensive player.

Or a top team can expand their salary cap to keep their premiership window open by trading out picks.

Or a team like North, who would almost certainly be under the cap with their delistings, could try to get a few extra picks by taking a few $ off other clubs.

Easily see a situation where Collingwood trades out next year first for some cap space, and North get another top pick and get to the salary floor. This means Collingwood could keep all they're players, and hence their premiership window.
AFL needs to approve every trade and im not 100% but believe there is a rule that prohibits a player being traded away in the same trade period that was part of the AFLPA agreement and stops the dumping of cap.

e.g Richmond trade Martin to North for pick #30
North Trade back Martin and pay 80% his salary for 2020 & 2021 1st rounders. Richmond lose picks but next year make a $1 mil offer to Bontempelli

Top clubs would dominate
 

Crazy Tails

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A lot of talk we are trying to get right up the draft order by trading off multiple first round picks (including next years).

As much as I'd like one of the big 6 I think I've settled on being happy enough with taking the Port model of taking 3 picks inside 20; before a Reef bid.

Now that clubs can stock pile picks again to match bids I'm hoping that we are talking to the Suns about their pick 27 and 37.

An article on the AFL site today mentioned that the Suns are likely to only have 1 live pick (#5). They have a couple of academy prospects but I'm lead to believe that they can pre list them and get them in outside of the draft. We have 2 x future 2nd round picks. I'd be seeing if the Suns wanted one of them in exchange for 27 and 37 this year. 27 and 37 would give us plenty of points to match on Reef. If the bid comes in around 20.
 

Peel67skin

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A lot of talk we are trying to get right up the draft order by trading off multiple first round picks (including next years).

As much as I'd like one of the big 6 I think I've settled on being happy enough with taking the Port model of taking 3 picks inside 20; before a Reef bid.

Now that clubs can stock pile picks again to match bids I'm hoping that we are talking to the Suns about their pick 27 and 37.

An article on the AFL site today mentioned that the Suns are likely to only have 1 live pick (#5). They have a couple of academy prospects but I'm lead to believe that they can pre list them and get them in outside of the draft. We have 2 x future 2nd round picks. I'd be seeing if the Suns wanted one of them in exchange for 27 and 37 this year. 27 and 37 would give us plenty of points to match on Reef. If the bid comes in around 20.
I don't think GCS in a rush to trade it out , Sydney future second also look good. Pick 27 after jamala bid become 26 , pick 37 after Campbell bid could go up to 34/35.
 

Prochard123

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I don't think GCS in a rush to trade it out , Sydney future second also look good. Pick 27 after jamala bid become 26 , pick 37 after Campbell bid could go up to 34/35.
There's talk you guys want to move up the pick order as a priority.

Any idea who you might be keen on in particular?
 

Elmer_Judd

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A lot of talk we are trying to get right up the draft order by trading off multiple first round picks (including next years).

As much as I'd like one of the big 6 I think I've settled on being happy enough with taking the Port model of taking 3 picks inside 20; before a Reef bid.

Now that clubs can stock pile picks again to match bids I'm hoping that we are talking to the Suns about their pick 27 and 37.

An article on the AFL site today mentioned that the Suns are likely to only have 1 live pick (#5). They have a couple of academy prospects but I'm lead to believe that they can pre list them and get them in outside of the draft. We have 2 x future 2nd round picks. I'd be seeing if the Suns wanted one of them in exchange for 27 and 37 this year. 27 and 37 would give us plenty of points to match on Reef. If the bid comes in around 20.
Trouble with that line of thinking is that this year's draft has nowhere the depth of quality of that Port Draft Haul (2018)

Stocking up on picks for years draft seems to be the sensible course of action.
 

Peel67skin

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There's talk you guys want to move up the pick order as a priority.

Any idea who you might be keen on in particular?
Either Mc or DGB , but if can't move up , most probably trade it out for future 2 and keep 5 .

* If DGB still available at Hawthorn pick , and they want a mid and multiple second Rd pick , i think GC willing to move up a spot . If not Phillip, Holland or thilthorpe is not bad at 5, even a bid at Campbell is possible .
 
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Mt Isa Mustang

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Wow how did this happen, IIRC last year Collingwood inquired as to what it would take for GCS to give up pick one, presumably so they could draft Matt Rowell, GCS came back with Adam Traloar, If the Pies knew, which you would assume they did, how much trouble they were in, regarding the salary cap, why didn’t this deal get done, GCS would of probably paid all of Traloar’s contract and the Pies would have Rowell on there books.
The only reason I can see, as to why this deal didn’t get done, is Traloar understandably not wanting to go, but what Traloar wanted seems to have mattered very little to Collingwood this year.
Talk about sliding doors, smh big time.
we would not have traded Treloar for Matt Rowell
Collingwood enquired, we told them no thanks.
I guarantee the AFL wouldn't have let us either.
Half the point of pick 2 compensation was he and Noah Anderson as great mates basically came as a package.
 

The 747

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If that comment was true, why didn’t any other club go for him? Saints went for Higgins and Carlton renewed Eddie’s contract. Something not quite right with Jaiydn. Smells funny.
There are plenty of examples of young players who have been wayward off the field who have been managed by clubs because they have high level talent. One of the greatest players of all time was a hot mess off the field and on the training track for his entire career (Ablett senior).
 

PieLebo87

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There are plenty of examples of young players who have been wayward off the field who have been managed by clubs because they have high level talent. One of the greatest players of all time was a hot mess off the field and on the training track for his entire career (Ablett senior).
Understand, we’ve got JDG. But in Stephenson’s case, absolutely no-one was interested. You’d think Saints would rather him than Higgins and Blues would rather him than Betts. Absolutely no nibbles outside North is quite concerning for him.
 

The 747

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Understand, we’ve got JDG. But in Stephenson’s case, absolutely no-one was interested. You’d think Saints would rather him than Higgins and Blues would rather him than Betts. Absolutely no nibbles outside North is quite concerning for him.
It was sprung late but yes, I think there is something to both sides here. I remember when Carlton traded Troy Menzel for a mid twenties pick and I thought they were insane, but time proved that was the right call.

I also thought two seconds was a terrible deal for Jake Stringer but he is garbage post Dogs.
 

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