List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

[Abdul_The_Bull]

re: this - these clubs havent just gone to players and said ' hey sorry we think that contract you signed 2 years ago is a dud and your output isnt matcing the $$$ we are paying you so we think you should take a paycut'. the players have been asked and agreed to tae a paycut because the club has identified a specific player who they believe will bring them further success and who they want to get across to the club in that trade period but need more room in the salary cap. that what the players agreed.

If we have taranto on the hook because we believe he is a missing piece and need some more $$$ to fit him in then players like grundy should consider taking a cut but if we want him to take a cut because we have buyers remorse over his contract then the club should just suck it up and accept it made an error

This is why the structure of contracts is so important. I would be amazed if there wasn't a performance based clause in every player's contract that managed player payments proportionately based on output. As an example, if a player were to suffer a long-term injury I think it reasonable that their remuneration be reduced relative to being out on the paddock and contributing. Similarly, if a player has a ripper game, meets all performance KPIs and gets named in the best, etc. then they should be compensated accordingly. On top of that, as I have previously mentioned (in another post) the club may elect to lump a payment in any one year to take advantage of TPP and Salary Cap rules. Therefore, it may be conceivable that someone like Grundy has received a greater proportion of his salary relative a simple pro-rate rate.
Essentially, contracts, TPPs and the salary cap s a complex and constantly evolving beast that simply cannot be known by anybody, let alone journos, at any point in time and probably can only be objectively considered after the end of a season when all payments and conditions have been executed. Therefore, the best we can do is but wildly speculate about such matters and none of us should be deluded into thinking we have any idea about what position the club is actually in at any point in time.

 

[Quicky]

This is why the structure of contracts is so important. I would be amazed if there wasn't a performance based clause in every player's contract that managed player payments proportionately based on output. As an example, if a player were to suffer a long-term injury I think it reasonable that their remuneration be reduced relative to being out on the paddock and contributing. Similarly, if a player has a ripper game, meets all performance KPIs and gets named in the best, etc. then they should be compensated accordingly. On top of that, as I have previously mentioned (in another post) the club may elect to lump a payment in any one year to take advantage of TPP and Salary Cap rules. Therefore, it may be conceivable that someone like Grundy has received a greater proportion of his salary relative a simple pro-rate rate.
Essentially, contracts, TPPs and the salary cap s a complex and constantly evolving beast that simply cannot be known by anybody, let alone journos, at any point in time and probably can only be objectively considered after the end of a season when all payments and conditions have been executed. Therefore, the best we can do is but wildly speculate about such matters and none of us should be deluded into thinking we have any idea about what position the club is actually in at any point in time.

I doubt there's anything in player contracts saying a player gets paid less if they're injured beyond not receiving match payments.

 

[loki04]

I see. But if their cap is that tight, how are the bringing in both Lobb & Jones. They are getting a key backman & key forward. They won’t be cheap surely?

I'm not sure if it was just tight for that season or all following, but that was the scuttlebutt that came out when they had us back in there.

Look at their list wouldn't surprise me, they are really underperformed imo. Should be a top 4 team looking at contending rather then middling inconsistent top 8 side.

 

[Dynamics]

SEN reporting that there's expected to be some interest from Vic clubs in Miles Bergman from Port Adelaide. I don't watch enough of Port to have an opinion of the kid. He sounds a likely type. 189cm, athletic, high marking and a long kick. Rising Star nominee last year, averaging 17 disposals and 5 marks per game.

Anyone seen much of him?

 

[Scodog10]

Question do any other clubs have players at other clubs paying for them or is it just us?

Absolutely there is, but that only addresses half the issue. Collingwood coming out of 2020 had 6 terrible contracts on the books Grundy, Treloar, Stephenson, Phillips, Sidebottom and JT. Most clubs carry 1 maybe 2 bad ones think Rankine at Adelaide, Williams at Carlton, Shiel at Essendon, Lobb at Fremantle, Atkins at GC, Whitfield/ Kelly/ Coniglio at GWS, Corr at North etc. when you have 1 or 2 you can carry them, but when it’s 5-6 you’ve got to move some of it on.

Obviously we did the bulk of that work in 2020, but the Grundy one is a bit of an anomaly in that it could create a scenario where we’re paying two players to take the field against us. My advice is that things won’t be as good as the rosiest of Pies supporters will hope it to be, but it also won’t be anywhere near as bad as the media will tell us it is.

My guess is that the Treloar payments are almost done and that the Grundy deficit will be more in the order of $100-200k and the talk of a $300k gap would result in a market value deal. The club aren’t irresponsible enough to potentially move Grundy if they’re just going to smoothly pay him and Treloar the dead cap until the contracts expire. Personally I’m more concerned about the McStay and Hill moves than the Grundy/ Treloar dead cap. For me McStay and Hill is going to result in approximately $1m in cap gone and negligible benefit. Grundy and Treloar at worst denies us access to a $600k talent which we may find with the associated trade currency…

Did anyone hear Andy Maher on SEN today I almost drove off the road he said Grundy isn’t worth a first round pick regardless of his high contract and he also said if someone paid his full contract we would be happy with pick 60 ish I can’t believe what comes out of his mouth sometimes

Hah piss take, yeah? That is 100% spot on from Maher.

 

[Unknown Identity]

Lol at people thinking we would get a good draft pick if Grundy leaves. Expensive contract and only leaving if we want him out. Would be peanuts back.
I think we would regret pushing him out, not because I can't see the benefits of Taranto coming it, but a AA quality ruck is something we've rarely had.

Nobody would care about his salary if he was playing AA quality football.

Problem is he last made the AA team in 2019 and been on a steady decline since.

 

[KinderSmock]

Did anyone hear Andy Maher on SEN today I almost drove off the road he said Grundy isn’t worth a first round pick regardless of his high contract and he also said if someone paid his full contract we would be happy with pick 60 ish I can’t believe what comes out of his mouth sometimes

AA rucks are now valued at Pick 60. How logical.

 

[Couch Coach]

Treloar is 300k not 200k.

Due to front loading I have heard it's down to $180K pa but who knows.

 

[stormskye]

AA rucks are now valued at Pick 60. How logical.

Why would he be valued on 18/19 form and not form of the last 3 years? If he was in AA form, we wouldn’t be having the conversation. Is WHE valued on his 18/19 form? Or his form now?

 

[Couch Coach]

SEN reporting that there's expected to be some interest from Vic clubs in Miles Bergman from Port Adelaide. I don't watch enough of Port to have an opinion of the kid. He sounds a likely type. 189cm, athletic, high marking and a long kick. Rising Star nominee last year, averaging 17 disposals and 5 marks per game.

Anyone seen much of him?

Bergman want's to head home to Victoria.
Port rumoured to be chasing Ben McKay.
Bergman rumoured to be leaning StKilda way but Essendon and others are chasing.

 

[loki04]

Due to front loading I have heard it's down to $180K pa but who knows.

Hopefully.

 

[loki04]

Bergman want's to head home to Victoria.
Port rumoured to be chasing Ben McKay.
Bergman rumoured to be leaning StKilda way but Essendon and others are chasing.

That's who we should of been chasing for next fa!

 

[Couch Coach]

That's who we should of been chasing for next fa!

Yes but Port are trying to get in prior to FA.

 

[Scodog10]

That's who we should of been chasing for next fa!

Or McKay>>McStay in 2022.

Yes but Port are trying to get in prior to FA.

It’s the obvious play. If Hinkley survives they need to bounce back next year so they’re win now. We are as well so if he were available we’d be bonkers not to enquire simply because he’s not a FA.

 

[loki04]

Yes but Port are trying to get in prior to FA.

Ah true. Well is he amendable, don't think norf will let him go for peanuts either.

 

[Scodog10]

Ah true. Well is he amendable, don't think norf will let him go for peanuts either.

As a scenario are you ok with McKay and TT for our 2022 1st and Grundy?

 

[The Royal Sampler]

As a scenario are you ok with McKay and TT for our 2022 1st and Grundy?

Just show me where to sign.

 

[Scodog10]

Just show me where to sign.

I agree. Now what if I were to then remove our 1st pick from that scenario, replaced McKay with McStay and told you McStay was coming in as a defender. Are you still keen? What I’m really trying to get across here is that the margins are tight between a result many would be happy with and one that people will be up in arms about. For instance here it’s the McKay to McStay downgrade at the cost of a 1st round pick…

 

[Seedsfan]

Why would he be valued on 18/19 form and not form of the last 3 years? If he was in AA form, we wouldn’t be having the conversation. Is WHE valued on his 18/19 form? Or his form now?

Was WHE ever AA? No.

All trading is done of potential

Say Luke Jackson his value is based off he has shown potential and clubs are backing him to reach the heights Grundy did. Now Grundy has shown he can get to the level now it’s a question can he get back there post injury.

 

[well left]

I agree. Now what if I were to then remove our 1st pick from that scenario, replaced McKay with McStay and told you McStay was coming in as a defender. Are you still keen? What I’m really trying to get across here is that the margins are tight between a result many would be happy with and one that people will be up in arms about. For instance here it’s the McKay to McStay downgrade at the cost of a 1st round pick…

Tricky one given no real exposed form with McStay as a defender.

I’d probably prefer to drop the first rounder, especially now it’s probably going to be in the teens, and go with McKay. Known quantity and maybe it just gets his brother thinking as well.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Scodog10]

Tricky one given no real exposed form with McStay as a defender.

I’d probably prefer to drop the first rounder, especially now it’s probably going to be in the teens, and go with McKay. Known quantity and maybe it just gets his brother thinking as well.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

It’s the way I lean as well, but in either scenario we’re still paying Grundy to play elsewhere and we could just as easily turn that 2022 1st into a future gun KPP…

 

[magpies42]

I doubt there's anything in player contracts saying a player gets paid less if they're injured beyond not receiving match payments.

Agree I think it would be a controversial clause, given the nature of the business means players get injured…the risk sits with the employer I guess.

 

[riddick78]

Is 750 grand a year for the next five years going to see you in the gutter on retirement? It amazes me to see how many people still place money above people/experiences. Life is fragile and often brief. Memento Mori. If you have enough to pay the bills, have a nice house and car and an annual holiday what more do you need? Surely friendships and building memories is more important?

This is the way i think about the whole Grundy situation, if i was in Grundys position, i would happily take a small pay cut, maybe 200k out of the suppose 950K (that figure changes daily to fit the dumpster divers narative). To help bring in players to win us flags, we have shown we are in contention and possibily could be for the next couple of years if we get the right players in, if enough players do take a pay cut, we could get in Taranto, Hill and McStay which would help us a lot, that 200K pay cut, could be more than made up in endorsements, especially if we win a flag.

In saying that, Grundy is entitled to that 950K, he and the club signed the contract, i won't begrudge him for making the club stick to the contract, but i hope he's looking at the bigger picture as well.

BTW we have no idea if any of this is true, we will only really find out at the end of the season. CFC could be trying to rid themselves of Grundys contract, Grundy might want to leave, he might want to stay and take a pay cut, there seems to be a lot of talk about this in the media, maybe they are feeding off each other, may be not.

BTW domus, i enjoyed reading the story about your son, unfortunately too many players hold clubs over a barrel and it was refreshing to hear about your son.

He’s the nerd on frontbar but he’s cocky and cool on SEN with gaze the bloke just annoys the hell out of me lately

Typical Carlton supporter, probably thought they were gonna win the flag in round 5. They are insufferable this year.

 

[iGNITER]

Hopefully keep both DeGoey and Grundy.

Have a relatively quiet off season and sign McStay as a FA and trade Hill in.

Good result.

 

[De Glueie]

Ok listen up ............. Think in terms of this. where are the rumours coming from not at all from the club but from media jurnos ,odd player managers to keep ahead of rumours other club detractors who hate us but NEVER FROM THE COLLINGWOOD FOOTBALL CLUB !
salary cap pressures what a load of crap. How are Melbourne and or Geelong going to fit Grundy into their salary caps no way. Plus Grundy is contracted he cant move and nor does he want too. Do you think Grundy will play second string to Gawn no way.
Graham Wright is very very astute ,he will not trade off gun players and leave us to pay for Treloar and say Grundy 2.5 million that we pay for these guys to play off at other clubs that is utter stupidity.

I will say Wright is an great recruiter when we keep Grundy and Degoey, plus we get Mcstay taranto and Hill . and lose a few peripheral players bring in guns with existing guns that's s how you trade not sell off the farm and get crap back.
Dont listen to all the media noise cos that''s what it is now lets concebntrate on how we are going to get in a top 4 position to win this year's flag nothing else