Autopsy Deja Voodoo - Clawed at the Cattery

[SGBeach]

Dont mean to have a go at you mate

Everybody has their own interpretation of success.

Is making finals when No-One expects it, success? Swans 2021
Is making a grand final when No-One expects it, success? Swans 2022

And No.. the bombers making finals last year as a result of Carlton choking is not success, its luck (but who gives a sh*t)

 

[lazy77]

Both had 15 players under 100 games experience,last weeks Eagles side and ours.

Last night we had two of last year's All Australians playing.
we had Papley -who waa being lauded as one of the games best small forwards of all time.

we had Parker- all australian and best and fairest multiple times

we had Lloyd a two time best and fairest

We had top 10 draft picks, Mcdonald, Stephens, Blakey

etc etc

You are telling me we can't at least compete? , I am not saying it was ever going to be likely we won, but we didn't score a goal in the second half when Geelong had it sewn up and didnt need to even keep pushing us down, we didn't even look like scoring a goal until about 5 mins to go and that is generous.


Paid professional footballers should be able to at least score a goal, win a 5 minute patch of a game, thats all I am saying,



The Eagles had a similar age profile and arguably less talent

Its only small but they won the last quarter, we didnt even get close to it, nothing to hang out hat on at all, thats the issue for mine.

I understand the outs, the closeness of sport, depth issues, bad days, tempering expectations etc etc, but just a bit of pride in the jumper is what you want to see at some point last night

At some point, you just have to give credit to the opposition. Cats hit their stride last night playing at their own stadium and were unstoppable. West Coast would have done no better under the same conditions. Comparing Geelong from last night with the gather round is a false equivalence.

Or are you saying West Coast are better than us??? If so, then I strongly disagree.

 

[The King!]

At some point, you just have to give credit to the opposition. Cats hit their stride last night playing at their own stadium and were unstoppable. West Coast would have done no better under the same conditions. Comparing Geelong from last night with the gather round is a false equivalence.

Or are you saying West Coast are better than us??? If so, then I strongly disagree.

No we are better than the Eagles that's the point , our 22 last night was better and more talented than last weeks eagles side.

But that's the problem we were way way way way way way worse in terms of output , effort , execution and mental toughness

so giving them any outs and excuses is ridiculous

The club was a complete embarrassment last night, one to the worst efforts by an AFL side of all time.

You can't just say the Eagles would have been no better last night , there is growing evidence we are the biggest front runners in the league.

 

[ErrolisGoldun]

No we are better than the Eagles that's the point , our 22 last night was better and more talented than last weeks eagles side.

But that's the problem we were way way way way way way worse in terms of output , effort , execution and mental toughness

so giving them any outs and excuses is ridiculous

The club was a complete embarrassment last night, one to the worst efforts by an AFL side of all time.

You can't just say the Eagles would have been no better last night , there is growing evidence we are the biggest front runners in the league.

Exactly right.

We as members and supporters deserve better and should hold the club accountable. Otherwise we will continue towards mediocrity and make excuses.

Our club needs to provide a strong response, not write this off.

The players and coaches scars may (or may not) have healed from GF, ours haven’t and the trust in the team has gone for mine.

 

[lazy77]

No we are better than the Eagles that's the point , our 22 last night was better and more talented than last weeks eagles side.

But that's the problem we were way way way way way way worse in terms of output , effort , execution and mental toughness

so giving them any outs and excuses is ridiculous

The club was a complete embarrassment last night, one to the worst efforts by an AFL side of all time.

You can't just say the Eagles would have been no better last night , there is growing evidence we are the biggest front runners in the league.

Gosh you're taking this hard haha. Just relax, write last night off as an aberration, keep supporting the team. No one will want to make amends more than the players and coaching staff. Geelong was just brutal and knew exactly how to take advantage of our outs and rip us apart. There aren't many other teams who could do that to us. Now, if we lose to GWS, then the alarm bells start ringing for real. But getting smashed by Geelong at their stadium with up to a third of our best 22 out is not as massive a disaster as you're making out. We'll be back.

 

[Swan4Life]

Leon Cameron lost by 53, wow so good

Not happy mate?

 

[swanssince2002]

Coming from a busy day yesterday doing something important, didn't watch the game. Reminded me of the 'This is fine' meme:

To be honest, I have seen my fair share of floggings before like that the one against a mediocre Melbourne side in 2010 and we still made the semi finals barely losing to the Bravedogs. Not a premiership for sure but we have bounced back. But yeesh what a terrible response to the GF flogging.

I know the match committee really wants some of the fringe players to work out, but it aint looking promising. I think this is the week the line will finally be drawn and changes are made, you cannot sweep a flogging like that under the rug, I'm sorry.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

I think you'll be proven to be wrong about this. We're still better than most teams in the AFL, we're simply just too undersized and inexperienced to compete with the bigger bodies of Geelong and Melbourne. Especially when we're hit with injuries. You're correct in your call about our precise gameplan falling apart under these circumstances though.

I get these losses where you have to completely re-asses your own expectations of our team are hard, but some of you completely overreact in your assessments.

We have some big deficiencies to work on and they might take longer to address than 2022 had us believe, but we still have the young core of an exceptionally good side there to work with.

Good post. Nothing is ever as bad or as good as it seems in footy.

 

[Mister B]

Gosh you're taking this hard haha. Just relax, write last night off as an aberration, keep supporting the team. No one will want to make amends more than the players and coaching staff. Geelong was just brutal and knew exactly how to take advantage of our outs and rip us apart. There aren't many other teams who could do that to us. Now, if we lose to GWS, then the alarm bells start ringing for real. But getting smashed by Geelong at their stadium with up to a third of our best 22 out is not as massive a disaster as you're making out. We'll be back.

Funny. That's the same thing that was said after the Grand Final. Yet, here we are, talking about the same lack of fight, the same poor selection / positioning of players and a completely heartless effort. This is not an aberration, that's the whole point. These are repeated issues that are not being addressed. But it will all be alright because you just have to trust the system right? The same system that has failed as at key moments over the last 24 months.

 

[lazy77]

Funny. That's the same thing that was said after the Grand Final. Yet, here we are, talking about the same lack of fight, the same poor selection / positioning of players and a completely heartless effort. This is not an aberration, that's the whole point. These are repeated issues that are not being addressed. But it will all be alright because you just have to trust the system right? The same system that has failed as at key moments over the last 24 months.

Dunno what you're talking about with the last 24 months. We have overachieved massively in that period and made the Grand Final. If that hasn't been good enough for you, then I would say you have unrealistic expectations.

And it is an aberration. Geelong match up well against us and are simply better. The injuries to some of our key players haven't helped either. We're unlikely to lose by a 100 points to any other team this season. We're more than competitive against most and should still make the 8. All the doom mongering and death riding on here is ridiculous. For god's sake, control your emotions and get some perspective. It's not the end of the world. We'll bounce back like we always do.

 

[Wolfgang West]

No we are better than the Eagles that's the point , our 22 last night was better and more talented than last weeks eagles side.

But that's the problem we were way way way way way way worse in terms of output , effort , execution and mental toughness

so giving them any outs and excuses is ridiculous

The club was a complete embarrassment last night, one to the worst efforts by an AFL side of all time.

You can't just say the Eagles would have been no better last night , there is growing evidence we are the biggest front runners in the league.

Don’t know why you bother King. The majority around here have the same non competitive spirit as this group when it comes to the crunch. Excuses are for the weak. We continually dance around the fact that we are competitively weak when put to the sword by a hard professional outfit and we have players that have reputations that far exceed their ability.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

My take, having had a chance to read this thread and reflect on the game:

1. Our back half of last year (excluding the GF) made us look better than we were. We are an inconsistent side lacking depth and experience. When things go our way, we can look on fire and unbeatable. When things don’t, we can look terrible (even as far back as the Essendon game from last year).

2. I think our good experienced players are getting old before our young talent gets good. This might mean our young list’s potential is still 2-3 years away. Parker, Rampe, etc won’t last that long and Kennedy, Franklin are already past. I am concerned that our middle tier of experience is not yet dominating. I’d say only Lloyd and Papley have reached their potential (Florent getting close). I think Mills, Heeney, and others are not consistent enough - they rarely take a game from the scruff of the neck and too often get dominated themselves. I think our younger players are mostly doing fine, they just need more time.

3. I hope we have been setting our salary cap up for some big trades. We have key position challenges across the park, and lack a strong midfielder to win the contested possessions when the game is not on our terms. (I think we need to move on Parker from the midfield and think the length of his contract was a mistake - I was also concerned when Kirk publicly commented that Parker got what he deserved with his deal, makes me think the coaches are too close to the players and not committed enough to winning).

4. Any team would struggle with the injuries we have got. Some very good points have been made on this board that the coaches really couldn’t win with the selection decisions. We had deficits across the park. I think it was best summed when someone noted that Fox was more than 10cm shorter than Cameron and no one could question that match up.

5. You would describe Geelong as our bogey side if we were better than them. Unfortunately they are better than us, so they are more like our dominatrix side. It hurts, and we haven’t learnt the safe word, so it hurts all game. I swear, Geeing players know what Swans players are going to do before Swans team mates do. And Swans players have no idea what Geelong players are going to do. Scott is so far within Horse’s decision cycle it is not funny. He probably got Horse to drive him home after the game without Horse even knowing where he was going.

6. Our midfield is obviously not right structurally at the moment. I’m not sure if it is players being played out of position or players needing to learn their position. Eg. Is Rowbum being played too defensively, or is he struggling to play the proactive parts of his role while meeting his defensive requirements. Same too for Warner but in reverse. I have heard Horse make comments about both players that make me think it is at least a bit of both, and not all on the coaches. The players are young though, so we should have patience.


So, what are the positives to take from this? I think it will force the team and coaches to take a long hard look at themselves. We will either get forged in the furnace or melt. Hopefully we develop a bit more c*** in our attitude towards winning.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Gould is in his second game, he’s probably not up it. Francis has been in the system a while but hasn’t shown anything to say he will make it.

Mills started his career in defence so moving back isn’t an issue. We have other mids who could have stepped up but they didn’t.

How do we know he’s not up to it showed signs game 1 and then was dropped for a silly reason. Nup you don’t move a mid back.

 

[The King!]

our kids are great untradeable

but don't play them on anyone or in a difficult spot they cannot do it

 

[LukeParkerno1]

our kids are great untradeable

but don't play them on anyone or in a difficult spot they cannot do it

Think we do have to remember they are kids in the end. We really were 3 years in front of where we should be last season and really it was Geelong by how much last season.

I'm realistic making the 8 is a decent year it’s not going to be what many want in here but it’s still a successful season and we’d have 2 top 25 picks at our disposal at the end.

 

[The King!]

Think we do have to remember they are kids in the end. We really were 3 years in front of where we should be last season and really it was Geelong by how much last season.

I'm realistic making the 8 is a decent year it’s not going to be what many want in here but it’s still a successful season and we’d have 2 top 25 picks at our disposal at the end.

3 years in front ... I call BS

it was 3 years to the window 3 years ago IIRC

Whoopsie made the grand final too early

 

[Grongey]

OK it wasn't our day - but it's the toughest road trip, and with a depleted squad.

Geelong's leading lights are team of the century/ hall of fame types: Dangerfield, Stewart, Blicavs, Cameron, Hawkins.

We were ahead of schedule in 2022, thanks in part to monster years from (amongst others): Sam Reid

20

Sam Reid

Age

32

Ht

196cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.3

3star

K

6.3

2star

HB

5.0

4star

M

4.7

4star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.1

4star

D

12.0

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

6.0

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

0.0

1star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.4

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.4

3star

, Tom Hickey

31

Tom Hickey

Age

33

Ht

202cm

Wt

97kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.9

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

6.9

4star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

19.1

5star

D

4.0

1star

K

1.5

1star

HB

2.5

2star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

7.0

5star

D

11.2

3star

K

4.2

2star

HB

7.0

5star

CL

0.4

3star

HO

8.6

5star

and Jordan Dawson

12

Jordan Dawson

Age

27

Ht

191cm

Wt

91kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.0

4star

K

11.4

4star

HB

5.7

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.8

4star

CL

0.6

3star

D

15.7

4star

K

10.9

4star

HB

4.9

3star

M

2.9

3star

T

2.0

3star

CL

0.4

3star

D

11.8

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

3.0

5star

CL

0.6

3star

.

Many of us said during all of last year - just rebuild for long term success. A mature approach.

The short term pain is for long term gain, and I think 'Uncle' John Longmire is the right man for this phase of list development.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

3 years in front ... I call BS

it was 3 years to the window 3 years ago IIRC

Whoopsie made the grand final too early

In key areas we were and still are very young. That tells you we were 2 years away

 

[Wolfgang West]

OK it wasn't our day - but it's the toughest road trip, and with a depleted squad.

Geelong's leading lights are team of the century/ hall of fame types: Dangerfield, Stewart, Blicavs, Cameron, Hawkins.

We were ahead of schedule in 2022, thanks in part to monster years from (amongst others): Sam Reid, Tom Hickey and Jordan Dawson.

Many of us said during all of last year - just rebuild for long term success. A mature approach.

The short term pain is for long term gain, and I think 'Uncle' John Longmire is the right man for this phase of list development.

Jordan Dawson had no hand in 2022. He played for Adelaide.

 

[The King!]

OK it wasn't our day - but it's the toughest road trip, and with a depleted squad.

Geelong's leading lights are team of the century/ hall of fame types: Dangerfield, Stewart, Blicavs, Cameron, Hawkins.

We were ahead of schedule in 2022, thanks in part to monster years from (amongst others): Sam Reid, Tom Hickey and Jordan Dawson.

Many of us said during all of last year - just rebuild for long term success. A mature approach.

The short term pain is for long term gain, and I think 'Uncle' John Longmire is the right man for this phase of list development.

Longmire has never technically developed a premiership side as senior coach

 

[RocketBooster]

Game 6 in a 23 game season

Let's see what happens next week or the week after when we have a few talls back as to where we are at

 

[Jeffers]

Funny. That's the same thing that was said after the Grand Final. Yet, here we are, talking about the same lack of fight, the same poor selection / positioning of players and a completely heartless effort. This is not an aberration, that's the whole point. These are repeated issues that are not being addressed. But it will all be alright because you just have to trust the system right? The same system that has failed as at key moments over the last 24 months.

Reminds me of the definition of insanity tbh.

 

[mcs095]

Funny. That's the same thing that was said after the Grand Final. Yet, here we are, talking about the same lack of fight, the same poor selection / positioning of players and a completely heartless effort. This is not an aberration, that's the whole point. These are repeated issues that are not being addressed. But it will all be alright because you just have to trust the system right? The same system that has failed as at key moments over the last 24 months.

That is what frustrates me. I can't name one part of the game last night (no matter how small) where I could honestly say 'it is clear we've tried something different to rectify the issues of last September'. It was close to a carbon copy as you could ever get in a sporting contest.

I don't care if things don't work - but I want to see some evidence next time we play the Cats that we've actually properly reviewed what happened and thought of some ways to try and change things. I saw nothing last night to suggest that happened after the Grand Final.

Yes some of the issues are purely a reflection of physical differences in the sides, that are hard to deal with until enough of our blokes are bulked up more. But a lot of it is tactical, where coaches can make a difference, and can try different things.

 

[Superstar swan]

I'd love to know what our conditioning program is like compared to other players.

We have so many players are still skinny as nab league players. When you watch other games, it's noticeable how hardened their players are compared to ours. Even smalls like Jack sinclair

35

Jack Sinclair

Age

29

Ht

181cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.5

4star

K

8.1

3star

HB

8.4

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

3.2

5star

MG

235.0

4star

D

15.0

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

5.0

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.0

3star

MG

376.0

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

4.2

2star

HB

7.8

5star

M

1.6

2star

T

2.0

4star

MG

138.2

3star

are massive through the legs

 

[Gimmeafree]

Horse needs to be ‘managed’ every time we face Geelong