Garry Lyon & Tim Watson: "Carlton aren't a big four club anymore."

Discussion in 'AFL - The Australian Football League' started by TheUndertaker, Oct 13, 2017 at 12:02 PM.

Put it out there
?

Who should take Carlton's place in the big four?

  1. West Coast

    81 vote(s)
    22.4%
  2. Adelaide

    25 vote(s)
    6.9%
  3. Hawthorn

    187 vote(s)
    51.8%
  4. Port Adelaide

    13 vote(s)
    3.6%
  5. Fremantle

    21 vote(s)
    5.8%
  6. Geelong

    15 vote(s)
    4.2%
  7. Melbourne

    19 vote(s)
    5.3%
  1. The_Reaper

    The_Reaper Hall of Famer

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    No but any support classification that doesn't include Adelaide and West Coast is meaningless.
     
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  2. Demonic Ascent

    Demonic Ascent Brownlow Medallist

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    Just wait and see






    :p
     
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  3. King Brown

    King Brown All Australian

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    Carlton are going through their painful journey the same as Richmond. Carlton are still a big club, but like Richmond of the 90s and 00s there have been too many restarts and false hopes for people to jump on board

    The 2013 EF has to be the best attended elimination final ever. Carlton only had to show a skerrick of top four quality to get back there again.
     
  4. Demonic Ascent

    Demonic Ascent Brownlow Medallist

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    Big 4 would be Collingwood, Richmond, Adelaide, WCE - maybe can throw Freo in these days

    Even Essendon can't compete although their growth has been stunted by the move to Docklands.
     
  5. Catoggio76

    Catoggio76 Debutant

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    Money and Public Relations/Image drives the AFL KPI's.
     
  6. The_Reaper

    The_Reaper Hall of Famer

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    Fremantle are a bigger club than credited but they are a lot, lot smaller than the Eagles.
     
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  7. HBF

    HBF Flying Scotsman

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    We're not anywhere near the big 4 at the moment.
    We have so much work to do undoing past poor decisions by the footy club.
     
    schmuttt, tonk and Hawkas1988 like this.
  8. Catoggio76

    Catoggio76 Debutant

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    Hawthorn is up there, Carlton will be in a minute's notice if they were given room to breathe.
     
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  9. TheUndertaker

    TheUndertaker The Phenom from Death Valley

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    That's why they're in the poll !
     
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  10. Bounce

    Bounce Fashion Killa

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    Hawks replaced Carlton 5 years ago
     
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  11. chunkylover53

    chunkylover53 Premiership Player

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    Yeah we're definitely not. As someone said that once some success comes they will come out of the woodwork.

    Richmond are about to become the biggest club in Aus. Essendon are gathering momentum and Collingwood are always there. I'd say it's a Big 3.
     
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  12. King Brown

    King Brown All Australian

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    Why?

    It’s entirely a Victorian concept.

    It’s a group of clubs that can reliably host games at the MCG against any of the other group regardless of either of their ladder positions.

    None of the other Victorian clubs can meet that definition. There are big non-Vic clubs but their support is almost wholly limited to their state.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if you could find more Carlton fans in Queensland than Adelaide fans in Victoria.
     
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  13. JayJ20

    JayJ20 Premium Gold

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    Collingwood
    West Coast
    Essendon
    Richmond
    Adelaide

    I think that's the order at the moment.

    Hawthorn are successful, but I wouldn't say that they are a bigger club then the other 5 teams.

    Carlton have a lot of catching up to do.
     
  14. Adelaide Hawk

    Adelaide Hawk Hall of Famer

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    Spot on with your first comment. Certainly the media have been well paid. You ask if the AFL think people are that stupid? I would say they know it. For some reason the AFL keep serving up an inferior product but the public keep turning up in droves. They don't realise they are being conned. To answer your third question, all the AFL do is PR, they couldn't give a shit about providing a good product.
     
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  15. blitzer

    blitzer Premiership Player

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    Its hard to say whether Carlton are a big four club but its clear beyond a doubt that they are a bottom four club.
     
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  16. Magma

    Magma Premium Platinum

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    and victorians mock our shitfights
     
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  17. Franc de Borges

    Franc de Borges Norm Smith Medallist

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    Couldn't care less. Coming from those intellectual giants it means even less again.

    Far more concerned about making the top 4 again than being considered part of a big 4.
     
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  18. falcons2

    falcons2 Team Captain

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    It pains me to say Carlton are still big 4. But with great pleasure I'd say they are of little significance. Favourable fixturing has helped keep attendances up again in 2017 finishing 4th behind Richmond, Collingwood and Essendon but 5k average behind them.
    If they make big finals I'd expect a similar swell like Richmond created but instead of rabid fanaticism it would be gloating arrogance.
    Long live Carlton's failures.
     
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  19. a_fighting_fury

    a_fighting_fury Club Legend

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    Swans “hugely unsuccessful on field”? They have 10 Premierships in their history - 8 if you don’t count the modern era. St Kilda have one. So its a bit unfair to be lumping them both in the same boat.
     
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  20. The_Reaper

    The_Reaper Hall of Famer

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    If you count VFA Geelong has 20 premierships.
     
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  21. Carlton_Blues

    Carlton_Blues Club Legend

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    In my view Carlton remain one of the Big 4 clubs, they’re simply in hibernation. They’re a Big 4 club that isn’t traveling well at the minute, but I’d liken them to a sleeping giant much like Richmond.
     
  22. footyfanatic09

    footyfanatic09 Senior List

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    I agree with them, Hawks in blues out. Melb is the home of footy , not Adel or Perth or Geelong or bris.

    We're the big clubs with the best membership in the home of footy. There it is !
     
  23. The Unforgiven

    The Unforgiven Club Legend

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    Is "Big 4" defined as a club's capacity to be big, i.e. a static measurement, or is it redefined every so often as to be relevant with the dynamic figures seen in real time?

    I've always seen Carlton as "Big 4", but I've struggled to not include Hawthorn in recent times. I think Hawks' near-merger with Melbourne in the mid '90s damaged its cred for many years until the recent string of flags.

    The whole Big 4 concept is rather arbitrary and contrived. Nonetheless, for those supporters whom align themselves with a Big 4 side, it's obviously relevant even if only to a superficial level.
     
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  24. BTs Nana

    BTs Nana Suspended

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    What we are saying "bro" is that the whole concept of Big 4 isn't discussed outside of those clubs.

    If the other clubs in Melbourne talk about it then they have a serious case of small man syndrome.

    In short: it's just a circlejerk of clubs who want to project some kind of superiority.

    Conclusion- No-one else gives a ****
     
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  25. ThePhreshOne

    ThePhreshOne All Australian

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    Hawthorn are so far beyond any other team it isn't even funny.

    They've won a flag in every decade since the 60s. What they're doing for the game is ridiculous, with names like Lewis, Mitchell and Hodge moving to other clubs to support them, assistant coaches have all played finals (with two premierships and an additional grand final appearance - correct me if there's more..)

    They're sitting at 70-80k members..

    If there's a top 4, then Hawthorn aren't in it, they're above it..