Greatest Dynasty of the 21st century - Lions vs Cats vs Hawks vs Tigers

[Munga]

I'd go back to watch the Lions, they were sensational. Having said that, they were getting injected. Who knows how many premierships have been legit. Weren't the Cats and Pies on it about ten years ago? The Eagles? It's a mess.

 

[Thornton Melon]

Richmond have benefitted from the expansion teams diluting the talent pool. It casts a shadow over their dynasty

Why did only Richmond benefit from this?

 

[juss]

Why did only Richmond benefit from this?

Another common view is that we didn't benefit at all, as during a time we were rebuilding, our draft picks were pushed back due to the expansion clubs.

Regardless, it's a back and forward argument, with more teams in the league and a more even league, the probability of winning a flag is less with more competition. We can go round and round forever.

FWIW, I believe Richmond can seal it beyond doubt if they were to win it this year. Flag, 1st/PF, Flag, Flag, Flag would be pretty hard to argue with. We are a mile from that though.

 

[RichLeMonde]

Richmond have benefitted from the expansion teams diluting the talent pool. It casts a shadow over their dynasty

GWS and Gold Coast hogged all the best young talent - the Giants were proved to be September pretenders, easy pickings for the Tigers. Put those same players in a decent club with history, fans and culture and they probably would've flogged Richmond. Alas, it was an artificial AFL construct who were handed a Grand Final team on a platter thanks to silly recruiting concessions. But their overpaid, spoiled young stars were no match for a proud, blue collar Victorian club with a 100 year history and 100,000 fans behind it.

The Suns basically squandered all their talent due to poor admin, poor coaching, poor club culture and a lack of player development. Many of their players were just taking the piss. Richmond were also fortunate to poach their 2 best players: Prestia and Lynch, both keys to Richmond flags

So who exactly did Richmond beat to win those flags? Who were the other good teams from 2017 to 2020?

There was a vacuum created by the AFL expansion. It didn't happen immediately in the first few years, but we saw its eroding effects after several seasons.

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The Tigers have also yet to match the 3 flags won by Brisbane, Geelong and Hawthorn 2013-15

There were only 17 home & away games in 2020 instead of the customary 22. The season was reduced by 22.7%
Matches were also shortened by 20%. Really, the 2020 flag should only be counted as 0.8 of a premiership to reflect this reduction.

It wasn't a true test. It was a Mickey Mouse season played under Covid restrictions for the benefit of Channel 7 and the AFL's TV rights money
You know this is true, however much you all try to talk it up...

Bris 2001-03..... 3 premierships
Geel 2007-11.... 3 premierships
Haw 2013-15.... 3 premierships
Rich 2017-20*... 2.8 premierships

You didn’t really think this through did you mate?

Everyone knows it was Hawthorn who benefited the most from expansion, since they were the best side when the new teams came in, which made it harder for rising teams, around 4-8 in the ladder, to add a quality player or 2 through the draft and challenge the very best teams. Teams that were mid tier and lower during the compromised draft years - like Richmond - were far worse affected than top teams.

Given Hawthorn’s benefit in this regard, Brisbane’s extra cap space and Roy boy top ups, and Geelong’s freakish run with father-sons, Richmond’s dynasty is easily the most impressive from a club/list building perspective

 

[Rasha]

Richmond have benefitted from the expansion teams diluting the talent pool. It casts a shadow over their dynasty

This is a joke surely?

For starters we were said to be the worst team since Fitzroy in 2010, which is when the compromised drafts began, followed by Gold Coast entering the AFL in 2011.

If any club was primed to take advantage of compromised drafts diluting the talent pool, it was Collingwood. Youngest side to win a premiership in 32 years, coming off a finals series where their average winning margin was like 9 goals or something ridiculous across 3 finals.

 

[Lynchy04]

Lions
Hawks
Tigers
Cats

Tigers won a GF away from home against a VIC team also, Hawks had 3 flags against interstate clubs at the G

In all seriousness the Hawks were cooked after their last premiership whereas we still are primed and no reason why we can't contend for the next 2-4 years given our list and ability to keep most of the group together. If we win another one this year or even in the next year or 2 we go above the hawks and potentially above the Lions.

 

[Conca Cuddle]

Richmond have benefitted from the expansion teams diluting the talent pool. It casts a shadow over their dynasty

GWS and Gold Coast hogged all the best young talent - the Giants were proved to be September pretenders, easy pickings for the Tigers. Put those same players in a decent club with history, fans and culture and they probably would've flogged Richmond. Alas, it was an artificial AFL construct who were handed a Grand Final team on a platter thanks to silly recruiting concessions. But their overpaid, spoiled young stars were no match for a proud, blue collar Victorian club with a 100 year history and 100,000 fans behind it.

The Suns basically squandered all their talent due to poor admin, poor coaching, poor club culture and a lack of player development. Many of their players were just taking the piss. Richmond were also fortunate to poach their 2 best players: Prestia and Lynch, both keys to Richmond flags

So who exactly did Richmond beat to win those flags? Who were the other good teams from 2017 to 2020?

There was a vacuum created by the AFL expansion. It didn't happen immediately in the first few years, but we saw its eroding effects after several seasons.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

The Tigers have also yet to match the 3 flags won by Brisbane, Geelong and Hawthorn 2013-15

There were only 17 home & away games in 2020 instead of the customary 22. The season was reduced by 22.7%
Matches were also shortened by 20%. Really, the 2020 flag should only be counted as 0.8 of a premiership to reflect this reduction.

It wasn't a true test. It was a Mickey Mouse season played under Covid restrictions for the benefit of Channel 7 and the AFL's TV rights money
You know this is true, however much you all try to talk it up...

Bris 2001-03..... 3 premierships
Geel 2007-11.... 3 premierships
Haw 2013-15.... 3 premierships
Rich 2017-20*... 2.8 premierships

This is the definition of petty. Any AFL flag is impressive. Are Hawthorn's flags any less impressive because they played 3 interstate state sides? No.Just call it 3 flags and move on

 

[db26]

The Lions outfit by a mile not one of the other teams come close to them.The other 3 on the same level as each other.

 

[Grrr]

Richmond have benefitted from the expansion teams diluting the talent pool. It casts a shadow over their dynasty

GWS and Gold Coast hogged all the best young talent - the Giants were proved to be September pretenders, easy pickings for the Tigers. Put those same players in a decent club with history, fans and culture and they probably would've flogged Richmond. Alas, it was an artificial AFL construct who were handed a Grand Final team on a platter thanks to silly recruiting concessions. But their overpaid, spoiled young stars were no match for a proud, blue collar Victorian club with a 100 year history and 100,000 fans behind it.

The Suns basically squandered all their talent due to poor admin, poor coaching, poor club culture and a lack of player development. Many of their players were just taking the piss. Richmond were also fortunate to poach their 2 best players: Prestia and Lynch, both keys to Richmond flags

So who exactly did Richmond beat to win those flags? Who were the other good teams from 2017 to 2020?

There was a vacuum created by the AFL expansion. It didn't happen immediately in the first few years, but we saw its eroding effects after several seasons.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

The Tigers have also yet to match the 3 flags won by Brisbane, Geelong and Hawthorn 2013-15

There were only 17 home & away games in 2020 instead of the customary 22. The season was reduced by 22.7%
Matches were also shortened by 20%. Really, the 2020 flag should only be counted as 0.8 of a premiership to reflect this reduction.

It wasn't a true test. It was a Mickey Mouse season played under Covid restrictions for the benefit of Channel 7 and the AFL's TV rights money
You know this is true, however much you all try to talk it up...

Bris 2001-03..... 3 premierships
Geel 2007-11.... 3 premierships
Haw 2013-15.... 3 premierships
Rich 2017-20*... 2.8 premierships

The draft is over rated. Half of Richmond's team weren't even drafted but came in through rookie, mature age etc.
Thinking you can build a side in 3 drafts or so is very hopeful, GWS/GC were always going to struggle. Kids coming in and getting smashed early doesn't do a lot for their futures, you can't blame coaches, admin etc for that, that is just the way football goes, the older blokes, even with less talent, will beat the young blokes.
And most of those GWS/GC kids were were playing private school football against kids they were vastly superior to, which doesn't always translate to AFL.

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

S P L I T T I N G H A I R S


Hawthorn
2012-2015
(4 seasons, 3 flags, 4GF appearances)

Geelong
2007-2011
(5 seasons, 3 flags, 4GF appearances)

Brisbane
2001-2004
(4 seasons, 3 flags, 4 GF appearances)

Richmond
2017-Present
(3 flags from 4 seasons)

 

[Leeda]

I have a new tennis racket... called cat guts... slam that dude into the ether...

sting no string them up in the ... no not that either...

got more ideas to come..

 

[Pessimistic]

Lions
Hawks
Tigers
Cats

Tigers won a GF away from home against a VIC team also, Hawks had 3 flags against interstate clubs at the G

In all seriousness the Hawks were cooked after their last premiership whereas we still are primed and no reason why we can't contend for the next 2-4 years given our list and ability to keep most of the group together. If we win another one this year or even in the next year or 2 we go above the hawks and potentially above the Lions.

tigers are looking good for sure.

all these subjective measures like ‘thehardest era’ or more home games are jut so much Twitter. Cold hard results is where it’s at

 

[Leeda]

tigers are looking good for sure.

all these subjective measures like ‘thehardest era’ or more home games are jut so much Twitter. Cold hard results is where it’s at

we just don't want more Ethan four...

 

[Noidnadroj]

Tigers have 3 more seasons to win a flag and go number 1. That would be 4 flags in 7 seasons versus 4 flags in 8 for Hawks, with Cats and Lions on 3. So 2021 is not the final opportunity to seal the deal as the greatest dynasty of all time. (Pls don’t put up anything prior to the AFL era when the game was not professional, there was no salary cap, zero equality, far fewer teams and flags could be purchased with a cheque book)


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Fadge]

Tigers have 3 more seasons to win a flag and go number 1. That would be 4 flags in 7 seasons versus 4 flags in 8 for Hawks, with Cats and Lions on 3. So 2021 is not the final opportunity to seal the deal as the greatest dynasty of all time. (Pls don’t put up anything prior to the AFL era when the game was not professional, there was no salary cap, zero equality, far fewer teams and flags could be purchased with a cheque book)


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

So are you saying the ability to win flags in successive years is now NOT the be all and end all?

Interesting.

 

[M Malice]

If the Tigers manage to get the 3Peat this year that'll be 3 3Peats this century.

3Peats or better pre 2000 >

Demons 1955-57.
Demons 1939-41.
Pies 4Peat 1927-30.
Blues 1906-08.

Seems to be getting easier to win consecutive premierships.

 

[Pessimistic]

If the Tigers manage to get the 3Peat this year that'll be 3 3Peats this century.

3Peats or better pre 2000 >

Demons 1955-57.
Demons 1939-41.
Pies 4Peat 1927-30.
Blues 1906-08.

Seems to be getting easier to win consecutive premierships.

a ‘quirk’ of history?

there’s also always been many runs of 3 or more years where a team was that close, so it’s actually backing up in consecutive years. Hawks 83-91?

 

[dommat]

Why not Hawthorn 2008-15?

The coach and 6 players were part of all 4 premierships.

Unless Richmond win this year, I have Hawthorn as number 1.

Backing it up is a big factor for me.

Right Now:
1. Hawthorn
2. Brisbane
3. Richmond
4. Geelong

If Richmond win this year:
1. Richmond
2. Hawthorn
3. Brisbane
4. Geelong

 

[Demonic Ascent]

If we've had 4 great sides already this century then maybe dynasty is too loosely applied and thus dynasty really only should be attributed to Collingwood 1925-30 (6 consecutive GFs and 4 flags), Melbourne 1954-60 (7 GFs and 5 flags) and Hawthorn 1983-91 (8 GFs and 5 flags).

You'd also need to include Carlton (1906-08), Melbourne (1939-41), Essendon (mid-late 40's), Cats (early 50's) Richmond (67-74), North (74-78), Carlton (79-82) going by the OPs definition

Ranking the 21st century teams I'd go

Brisbane
Geelong
Hawthorn
Richmond

 

[sydney_gws]

You'd also need to include Carlton (1906-08), Melbourne (1939-41), Essendon (mid-late 40's), Cats (early 50's) Richmond (67-74), North (74-78), Carlton (79-82) going by the OPs definition

Ranking the 21st century teams I'd go

Brisbane
Geelong
Hawthorn
Richmond

Geelong 2007 to 2011 was the best team, and their 2004 to 2020 record is incredible in terms of home/ away record and premium final appearances. There is a chance if they can get some quality free agents in ( say Josh Kelly, petracca ) Richmond could get close to that.

 

[Roby]

If the Tigers manage to get the 3Peat this year that'll be 3 3Peats this century.

3Peats or better pre 2000 >

Demons 1955-57.
Demons 1939-41.
Pies 4Peat 1927-30.
Blues 1906-08.

Seems to be getting easier to win consecutive premierships.

Premierships are difficult to win, they're never easy.

 

[EasternTiger]

Bris 2001-03..... 3 premierships
Geel 2007-11.... 3 premierships
Haw 2013-15.... 2.5 premierships
Rich 2017-20*... 2.8 premierships

I've gone ahead and adjusted Hawthorn's dynasty tally to reflect the true value of beating Freo in a Grand Final.

 

[HTT]

I've gone ahead and adjusted Hawthorn's dynasty tally to reflect the true value of beating Freo in a Grand Final.

In that case it’s actually
Brisbane: 2.0 (Collingwood twice)
Geelong: 2.0 (St Kilda, Collingwood)
Hawthorn: 2.5 (Fremantle)
Richmond: 2.8

 

[Final Siren]

In that case it’s actually
Brisbane: 2.0 (Collingwood twice)
Geelong: 2.0 (St Kilda, Collingwood)
Hawthorn: 2.5 (Fremantle)
Richmond: 2.8

More adjustment needed. Brisbane & Geelong only beat 15 other teams for their flags. Richmond & Hawthorn had to beat 17 other teams (13.3% more).

 

[Daka]

If Richmond win another flag, I think I'd rate them the highest also I was tempted to rate us higher than the Lions because also the merger helped Brisbane ppl never seem to bring it up.

1. Hawks 3-peat in a 18 team competition
2. Lions 3-peat in a 16 team competition
3. Tigers back to back in a 18 team competition
4. Geelong 3 premierships in 5 years.