Autopsy Hawks beat Geelong by 11 points

[God Mode]

So true!

I even saw Puopolo tackled by two of our guys at once and still get arms free. I recall late in the game they said that holding the ball free kicks resulting from tackles was 11 to 2 in Hawthorn's favour. Need we say more? Soft.

You don't need talent to tackle either. Thats what makes it even more infuriating.

 

[CatRiot]

I just did the Ladder Predictor, and I was surprised to have Hawks win the Flag... Oh no, please not.

I had GWS skittling the Tigers in a Prelim, and the Hawks scrapping into a GF against GWS, being on their home turf they get home.... oh no.

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

Lets play a game - what does everyone think happens next.

A) Holding the ball
B) Puopolo manages to free his arms and gets a handpass off to teammate
C) Parsons decides to do something and make it a 3/4 way

Time for another game - what does everybody think happens next?

A) Holding the ball
B) Puopolo manages to free his arms and gets a handpass off to a teammate which leads directly to Hawthorn kicking the sealer
C) Parsons decides to do something and make it a 3/4 way

 

[cats_09]

Time for another game - what does everybody think happens next?

A) Holding the ball
B) Puopolo manages to free his arms and gets a handpass off to a teammate which leads directly to Hawthorn kicking the sealer
C) Parsons decides to do something and make it a 3/4 way

D) Henderson & Kolo needed to make sure that at least one of them kept their feet in that contest rather than both going to ground, leaving multiple open Hawks players on their feet waiting for the ball
E) players further up the field ****ed up first to allow the Hawks open space and didn't follow their opponents as the Hawks ran forward in packs
F) more players than just Parsons didn't have great games yesterday, and singling him out is getting tiresome

 

[Captain chaos]

Surely you rank a team's bottom 6 by their output. Richmond's performs on a regular basis, ours doesn't. To be honest, I wouldn't be able to name who is in Richmond's bottom six as a result of this, whereas it's hard to name ours as there's about 10 players who can be in it.

Agree! I said last week that our best 5/6 midfielders having been getting huge numbers yet we are losing ... so our bottom six must be the reason ?

For the record , my guess at ricki Dd bottom six from the game yesterday ..
Higgins , broad , Macintosh , Ellis , graham and .costagna ..still pretty good players some of them

 

[Shadow89]

Tom Hawkins kicked one goal today.

I can't believe how the commentators have said that this has been Hawkins' best season. He has barely kicked 40 goals, and the only reason that he is within cooee of the Coleman is because Ben Brown, who is leading, has only kicked 45. That is a poor return, and I think that the Coleman will be won with the least amount of goals in VFL/AFL history.

Hawkins didn't kick a goal for the first two weeks, and other than a handful of games, he has been quiet.

I don't care if he is doing more "team things" or giving more goal assists. I want him in the goalsquare, running onto the lead and kicking goals. I would rather Hawkins have 5 kicks, and those kicks are 5 goals, rather than a 20 possession game with one goal.

This is a really uninformed comment.

- Hawkins has kicked 2 or 3 in nearly every game since Round 5
- Hawkins has over 50 goals
- Brown has over 50 goals

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

D) Henderson & Kolo needed to make sure that at least one of them kept their feet in that contest rather than both going to ground, leaving multiple open Hawks players on their feet waiting for the ball
E) players further up the field ****** up first to allow the Hawks open space and didn't follow their opponents as the Hawks ran forward in packs
F) more players than just Parsons didn't have great games yesterday, and singling him out is getting tiresome

Sorry sir - I'll use another player next time to keep it fair. Is Cuthrie alright? Don't want you to get annoyed by me mentioning Parsons.

Here is another Henderson special - lets guess what happens next.

A) Holding the ball because he pins his arm like he is supposed to - basic under 13's
B) Hawthorn player gets handpass away to teammates

Can we please organise to send someone down to the club that can educate our players on how to tackle properly? Maybe get Cyril Rioli down there on a part time basis - he was an expert at pinning the arm during tackles. Puopolo is also a good example of how to tackle - always pins the arm as you should.

 

[Partridge]

Time for another game - what does everybody think happens next?

A) Holding the ball
B) Puopolo manages to free his arms and gets a handpass off to a teammate which leads directly to Hawthorn kicking the sealer
C) Parsons decides to do something and make it a 3/4 way

I watched the replay last night for the first time. I'm going with "not option A or C".

 

[Whit3y]

This year may be disappointing Vdubs, but it has been quite predictably so.

List management has been questionable for some time - not poor, exactly, but questionable.
I reckon being a so-called 'destination club' post-flags clouded the List Management team's judgement - just because players were open to coming to Geelong doesn't mean we had to take them all at the expense of investing in youth.
I'm not talking about Dangerfield, obviously - that was a blue-moon opportunity and the club was right to pursue the chance to bring him onboard.

Then again, our drafting has been pretty poor for a while now, with our first selections being used questionably :

#15 on Smedts in 2010 - injuries, indifferent form and the club not sure if they wanted him to play forward or back
#32 on Hamling in 2011 - never given so much as an opportunity, the club went with the likes of Rivers (who was ok for 2 seasons)
#16 on Thurlow in 2012 - a knee injury along the way, but has never put together a string of solid games
#16 on Lang in 2013 - undersized midfielder who'd suffered a broken leg in the lead-up to the draft; showed glimpses here and there but not enough
#10 on Cockatoo in 2014 - played one good game in a draft year ruined by injuries. AFL career has followed suit.
#59 on Gardner in 2015 - not a high selection, but will probably go the same way as Hamling, behind senior players and given no chance to develop at senior level.
#26 on Parfitt in 2016 - developing, can't complain with his progress
#22 on Fogarty last year - long way to go for Fogarty, too early to judge but I have reservations

So even if we'd gone in a different direction and hit the draft a bit harder, there's no guarantee we'd have fared any better.

As for Chris Scott, you may be inclined to give him a pass, but I don't - he's done ok to have the team winning enough H&A games to qualify for finals most years - and some years we were seemingly in a great position to make an assault on the flag - but come finals time the team has been exposed as finals frauds; e.g. losing to Freo in Melbourne twice (once at Geelong!!), blowing a double chance two years running (13/14) by dropping the Qualifying final on each occasion, and being on the receiving end of beltings in 2016 (Sydney) & '17 (Tigers & Crows).

It'll be no revelation to me if this team falls off a cliff next year whatsoever; Dangerfield, Hawkins and Duncan are all still around their peak but I'd be surprised if any improved next year. Selwood and Ablett are every chance of dropping off in output. The rest of the list is competitive, but not finals material and certainly not flag material.

I agree with you that we need to bolster the list significantly, and the 'bottom 12' (!) sounds about right - hopefully if we try to replenish the list Wells and co. remember to select blokes who can kick the football, because I have concerns over the footskills of every one of Parfitt, Fogarty, Kelly and Menegola.

You are spot on with regards to our drafting.

 

[romeohwho]

I just did the Ladder Predictor, and I was surprised to have Hawks win the Flag... Oh no, please not.

I had GWS skittling the Tigers in a Prelim, and the Hawks scrapping into a GF against GWS, being on their home turf they get home.... oh no.

Haha. Relax- GWS won’t beat Richmond at the G. Neither will the Hawks. Long way to go yet-plenty to still happen.

 

[PatrickBateman]

You are spot on with regards to our drafting.

He's spot on with regards to this point too...

As for Chris Scott, you may be inclined to give him a pass, but I don't - he's done ok to have the team winning enough H&A games to qualify for finals most years - and some years we were seemingly in a great position to make an assault on the flag - but come finals time the team has been exposed as finals frauds

This truth is in line with the fact that we don't play finals like football consistently enough, therefore it's near on impossible to switch on at will. We're a 'nice' side, we're flashy, talent heavy. Expectations are low in terms of work rate and intent. This would be Chris Scott's legacy if he walked out today.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

Last 2 games Dangerfield hasn't scored as goal. I think only one score assist.

 

[Live in hope]

It's rare for me to go this direction but I liked the list construction at the beginning of the year this season is extremely close from top to bottom teams are so even. Hard to blame injuries although I would say Henderson, Taylor, Cockatoo, Mcarthy, Menzel, Ratugolea, Gregson missing large stretches of the season really left the forward half of the ground a touch short of what they were hoping for.

B: Bews Taylor Kolodashnij
HB: Tuohy Henderson Stewart
C: Duncan J.Selwood T.Kelly
HF: B.Parfitt Ratugolea N.Cocaktoo
F: L.Mcarthy Hawkins S.Menegola
Foll. Stanley P.Dangerfield G.Ablett

Inter: Blicavs, Menzel, L, J.Heny, Q.Narkle, J.Bews, C.Guthrie,

S.Selwood, Fogarty, Cunico, J.Jones, J.Thurlow, Z.Smith, Gregson

Now, this is just a rough projection without injuries of how I believe our forward half was meant to look this season. One tall in Hawkins, Ratugolea as the 2nd ruck. Menegola, Parfitt, Cockatoo can swap on ball Menzel and Henry give some versatility to that group. Dangerfield, Ablett, and Selwood to a lesser extent can go forward.

It is an interesting mix alas it has not worked like that so I think what your seeing is more a group of inexperienced players having teething problems and some positional changes because of the injuries. I think Dangerfield ideally would spend more time forward as well. A large group of players that haven't played much together or AFL Football. You hit the MCG in big games with finals on the line against a well coached and organized hawthorn side with premiership players it was never going to be easy.

Under 40 Games v Hawthorn

T.Stewart
B.Parfitt
J.Henry
T.Kelly
J.Parsons
M.Oconnor
L.Fogarty
Q.Narkle

I don't think anyone in this group had a great day a few little moments Selwood was quiet Hawkin's couldn't kick straight Duncan decided the ball was a bar of soap and we nearly pinched it late. I just think even though these are excuses a lot of things happening this season actually have very large upside which wasn't my view on last seasons list. It might not have us in flag contention but from what I have seen from Richmond and WB the previous season's with a good run positive results are possible

Great post. I agree that on the face of it the team you name looks impressive, but - it underscores our problems:
- only 2 players with line breaking speed, one of whom is perennially injured. Many of our players are slow off the first 5 metres , a crucial attribute
- only 1 player with reliably good foot skills (Duncan)
- our 4 small/medium half forwards are chronically injured
- maybe 3 or 4 have good tackling technique

In an era when manic pressure based on on speed, tackling and rebounding foot skills wins premierships, we are way off.

 

[iameviljez]

You don't need talent to tackle either. Thats what makes it even more infuriating.

To a certain degree, I disagree with this. The best tacklers in the AFL nowadays (now that we've gotten rid of the tagger) are either agile enough to not let anything slip through (Dev Smith, Shiels, Greenwood, Taranto), or they are spending all their time at the coalface.

 

[Cataholic]

They took hard decisions, got serious talent, I don’t know how and off they go. Two years. We’ve been doing it for 7. That says a bit. We started in ‘11.

Cockatoo will never be that player we hoped. He gets the type of injuries that will keep on happening.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I'd keep Cocky for one more year, as the balance between the glimpse of talent we've seen vs his injury woes is so fine that I think it's worth the punt. It'd be a shame to walk away from him just as he turned the corner so to speak, though I fear your prediction might be proven correct.

In the meantime, I'd be getting rid of Cuthrie, Henderson, Kolo, SS, Parsons, McCarthy, Murdoch, Gregson, GHS and Thurlow, whilst bidding a grateful farewell to Menzel and Taylor.

 

[thegerman]

D) Henderson & Kolo needed to make sure that at least one of them kept their feet in that contest rather than both going to ground, leaving multiple open Hawks players on their feet waiting for the ball
E) players further up the field ****** up first to allow the Hawks open space and didn't follow their opponents as the Hawks ran forward in packs
F) more players than just Parsons didn't have great games yesterday, and singling him out is getting tiresome

Well perhaps Parsons should put in a good game then.

6 players under 8 disposals. One was injured early. Stuff knows the excuses the others have.

That's the killer, too much done by few many.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Mad_Hatter]

To be fair, you don't rate anyone in the club... You pal have no friggen idea about anything in the inner sanctum or how the club is run so why pretend you do?
Reading your posts is like reading a gossip mag combined with a teenage girls diary that lists all the boys that you don't like!!!

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

You have no idea what I know or don’t know, and I’d suggest you have no idea about what happens at the club.
So take your hypocritical BS elsewhere champ or harden up when faced with opinions differing from yours.

 

[Mr Blicavs]

They took hard decisions, got serious talent, I don’t know how and off they go. Two years. We’ve been doing it for 7. That says a bit. We started in ‘11.

Cockatoo will never be that player we hoped. He gets the type of injuries that will keep on happening.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Tough decisions ( well I don’t think they’re all that hard) need to be made at the end of the season.
Time to start building a tough list. (physically and mentally) Those who are out of contract and physically and mentally weak, should be shown the door. (Menzel, S Selwood, McCarthy, Gregson, Simpson, Cocatoo) are ones that spring to mind. Not all of them, obviously, but make a start!
Some obvious names like the Guthrie’s and Parsons dodge the bullet because the club hastily signed them.....but this off season should be all about cutting the dead wood free.
We can’t compete with the top teams with these names on our list.



*when you read back through those names and combine them with other names that could have easily made that list, it’s staggering how much dead wood we actually have
This has not been a good period for Wells and co.

 

[Mr Blicavs]

Sorry sir - I'll use another player next time to keep it fair. Is Cuthrie alright? Don't want you to get annoyed by me mentioning Parsons.

Here is another Henderson special - lets guess what happens next.

A) Holding the ball because he pins his arm like he is supposed to - basic under 13's
B) Hawthorn player gets handpass away to teammates

Can we please organise to send someone down to the club that can educate our players on how to tackle properly? Maybe get Cyril Rioli down there on a part time basis - he was an expert at pinning the arm during tackles. Puopolo is also a good example of how to tackle - always pins the arm as you should.

Please continue to use Parsons as the model of ‘not what to be’ as a footballer.

He is the PERFECT example

 

[Mr Blicavs]

I'd keep Cocky for one more year, as the balance between the glimpse of talent we've seen vs his injury woes is so fine that I think it's worth the punt. It'd be a shame to walk away from him just as he turned the corner so to speak, though I fear your prediction might be proven correct.

In the meantime, I'd be getting rid of Cuthrie, Henderson, Kolo, SS, Parsons, McCarthy, Murdoch, Gregson, GHS and Thurlow, whilst bidding a grateful farewell to Menzel and Taylor.

These are the current contract standings.
https://www.zerohanger.com/afl/teams/geelong-cats/

*edit. Guthrie’s have been signed since, along with one or two others

 

[Cataholic]

These are the current contract standings.
https://www.zerohanger.com/afl/teams/geelong-cats/

How watertight are they?

 

[Pollywaffle]

The Dons got us comfortably last season once from memory I just remember it being over early and they were flying pretty sure Essendon had lost 4 in a row and just come off a 13 point loss to CARLTON when they trumped us by 34 points. We just lose some games like after the MID SEASON BYE lol that just make no sense.

The dogs was a kick in the teeth though most of our other losses are to quality opponents the one against Sydney at home was tough although like hawthorn they just generally lift when they see Geelong.

From memory Essendon got us with a clever quick corridor game plan specifically designed crack our zone. Dogs killed us with manic pressure. Both those losses we failed to adjust. One could argue that they were coaching failures as much as player issues.

 

[TazHawk15]

Hawks non negotiable is foot skills? Worpel is horrible by foot. Hard as a cats head but please don't say he's elite by foot.

Yeah na.

While he may not be elite, he is far far far from horrible, I have seen the kid live 4 times now and his kicking is very very good.

It was the knock on him pre-draft but everyone at the club have been very surprised at how good a kick the kid is.

They obviously put a bit of development into his kicking since he landed at the club, and he is very capable by foot now.

They did the same with Brad Hill who went from being a pretty s**t kick to one of the best, while at the Hawks.

 

[Cursed Cat]

Last 2 games Dangerfield hasn't scored as goal. I think only one score assist.

20 goals for the season after nailing 45 last year.

 

[Fyre]

Tough, tough loss.

- Watching from high up, you really saw how poor defensively our mids are. Just unwilling to chase a turnover.
- Players constantly trying to intercept the ball rather than attack the player with the ball. Just no pressure on the ball carrier. GET IN HIS FACE!.
- Revolving door tackles. Been piss poor in this area for years.
- Lack of adjustment from coaching staff at the end of the quarter if they feel that they were on top. Need to always be moving things around. It was the reason the Hawks kicked 5-nil in the 2nd because Clarkson moved things around and our guys kept it the same. I've said before we need some outside fresh blood in the box at the assistant level. Should be trying to trump all the Melbourne clubs and having a big swing at Mitchell. Would also look at Ratten.
- Why did they sign Parsons up until 2020?. Just an awful footballer. Watched him closely on Saturday. Squibbed numerous contests, missed a simple set shot, DE% was awful on a very low amount of possessions. He just runs patterns and doesn't anticipate where the ball will go. His 2nd efforts are non existent. I have no idea why he was picked.
- O'Connor over Thurlow....no idea why. I know that Jackson would have at least moved quickly and tried to open the game up rather than just holding it up and waiting like O'Connor did late in the 4th quarter. He isn't ready for AFL and I'm not sure he will be. Just doesn't seem to have a quick decision making mindset. I can't knock his effort. He has a dip but still makes simple errors. Park him in the VFL.
- Guthrie. Horribly out of form. Either go back to the VFL and spend time in the midfield or give him a run with role. Not sure what has happened here. Showed plenty a few years back and looked like he was going to be a player. Gone backwards.
- If you're going to kick it to Menzel, put it on his head FFS. Out in front and bouncing away is no good for a bloke who has blown his knees so many times and has the turning circle of the QE2.

I'd be bringing in Constable and giving him a couple of games now. Rest Joel one week, rest Danger/Gaz another. If we make finals, having them fresh is really going to be the make or break because we cannot rely on the bottom 6-8 guys to deliver on a consistent basis for 4 weeks. It will won on the back of the top end having huge games. No more Parsons or O'Connor. What is Miers like defensively?. Worth a punt in the forward pocket?.

Need the Pies to roll Port and we need to win the last 2 games (and by decent margins to boost the %). Not out of this yet.