List Mgmt. List Management Discussion for 2021

[rei154]

*cough*

Sorry?

Sorry- so used to the gold being around our necks and it being implied

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Howe was in the side when all of those players sans Sicily and Gunston was playing. Being that he doesn’t play the same position as those players I don’t see how they’d squeeze him out of the side. Unless Mitchell has a very different opinion to this year’s match committee I don’t see why Howe would be out of the best 22 when he’s come off the best year of his career.

What is your best 22 then? Our best 22 in the last round was:

Hardwick - Hartigan - Frost
Bramble - TOB - Scrimshaw

Ceglar - JOM - Mitchell
Howe - Wingard - Phillips

Hanrahan - Lewis - Worpel
Nash - Kosi - Big Boy

Downie - Burgoyne - Shiels - Morrison
Sub: Newcombe

Now we can take out Burgoyne, Downie and Hanrahan. But who else will be coming out for all of Sicily, Day, CJ, Impey, Breust, Gunston, Brockman and Moore. That's another six players that need to make way.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

What is your best 22 then? Our best 22 in the last round was:

Hardwick - Hartigan - Frost
Bramble - TOB - Scrimshaw

Ceglar - JOM - Mitchell
Howe - Wingard - Phillips

Hanrahan - Lewis - Worpel
Brockman - Kosi - Big Boy

Downie - Burgoyne - Shiels - Morrison
Sub: Newcombe

Now we can take out Burgoyne and Hanrahan. But who else will be coming out for all of Sicily, Day, CJ, Impey, Breust, Gunston and Moore. That's another five players that need to make way.

Really hard to name a best 22 when there’s trades, drafts and pre-season to come. Likely to unfortunately be pre-season injuries and niggles also. As it stands Howe played 20 games last season so I don’t think he was viewed as a fringe player nor did he play like one.

To play your game though - of the team you listed to pick 5 from - Newcombe, Downie and Brockman are still young fringe players. Lewis would likely make way for Gunston and TOB would likely make way to allow any of the rebounding defenders you just listed make way.

 

[MrPremiership]

What is your best 22 then? Our best 22 in the last round was:

Hardwick - Hartigan - Frost
Bramble - TOB - Scrimshaw

Ceglar - JOM - Mitchell
Howe - Wingard - Phillips

Hanrahan - Lewis - Worpel
Brockman - Kosi - Big Boy

Downie - Burgoyne - Shiels - Morrison
Sub: Newcombe

Now we can take out Burgoyne and Hanrahan. But who else will be coming out for all of Sicily, Day, CJ, Impey, Breust, Gunston and Moore. That's another five players that need to make way.

and DGB

 

[Judd2Sewell]

and DGB

Not to mention Newcombe and Downie may keep their places with a big pre-season.

 

[PhatHQ]

I'm a huge fan of Skinner's potential, but I understand he's playing SANFL because he was delisted, likely the result of his always being injured.

*I think Skinner would be more of a Hartigan replacement than a TO'B replacement.

Bang on
Wanted us to pick him up ages ago.
He is a bit of a push and shove kpp with more than enough smarts to look quick. Not quite Tom Hawkins/ Tex Walker forward and Hartigan comparison and an almost May would be pretty close I’d say. Simply curled with injuries

 

[Randy Campbell]

Timmy reminds me a lot of Ryan Shoenmakers. Both showed a lot of potential, they both could play forward or back. They were both serviceable in a role rather than being great. At times teasing us with their potential, but never fully delivering on it.

 

[Mojo]

View attachment 1245013

I think TOB has perhaps a little more scope than Shoey - his confidence is growing but at a snail's pace. If he were to hold onto 3-4 more marks each game he'd be a more permanent fixture in our side.

 

[tommyk72]

I think TOB has perhaps a little more scope than Shoey - his confidence is growing but at a snail's pace. If he were to hold onto 3-4 more marks each game he'd be a more permanent fixture in our side.

100% right. The issue is he doesn't. My well of Timmy O optimism has unfortunately now run dry. I would love to be proven wrong though!

 

[Brant]

I think TOB has perhaps a little more scope than Shoey - his confidence is growing but at a snail's pace. If he were to hold onto 3-4 more marks each game he'd be a more permanent fixture in our side.

If he held 3-4 more marks per week then he'd be the best player in the game!

 

[Turly]

The game where he did his knee against the Eagles he was killing it in defense. Gave Darling a bath, even washed behind his ears.
The life of a utility is never easy.

Was the game before it against Freo? Remember watching and thinking jeez we have a star full back on our hands.

 

[Mercy Seat]

I like Timmy but we’ll never be rueing the day if he goes elsewhere. I think he is what he is at this point. A good fringe player with great athleticism, a good kick, but who just never quite made it. If we keep him, great, he fills some holes but hopefully only as needed. And if not, all the best I wish him well.

As a rebuilding side, on paper there seems to be enough young talent to finally push him out, so it’s a question of whether we want to give that depth spot to a 28 year old, or another kid.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

What is your best 22 then? Our best 22 in the last round was:

Hardwick - Hartigan - Frost
Bramble - TOB - Scrimshaw

Ceglar - JOM - Mitchell
Howe - Wingard - Phillips

Hanrahan - Lewis - Worpel
Brockman - Kosi - Big Boy

Downie - Burgoyne - Shiels - Morrison
Sub: Newcombe

Now we can take out Burgoyne and Hanrahan. But who else will be coming out for all of Sicily, Day, CJ, Impey, Breust, Gunston and Moore. That's another five players that need to make way.

Downie isn't a lock and is likely on the out atm till he locks in a spot, Morrison, Shiels, Burgoyne, Hanrahan. Big Boy probably plays some and doesnt others as i feel its his last year. Ceglar. TOB. possibly one of hartigan/frost for DGB.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

this makes me very happy

especially the 'wants to finish what he started'

 

[Tassie Cryptik]

Nash is currently best 22.
Played in the final game too I thought.
And he made the top 6 in the AFL report.
Some people just ignore those they hate.

 

[Big Hotdog]

Was the game before it against Freo? Remember watching and thinking jeez we have a star full back on our hands.

Thanks for making me go back and watch some 2013 Hawks v Eagles, was round 2 for anyone needing a reminder of awesome our three peat side was.
Still no clearer on the knee injury. But my chest is puffed up. Going to go and pop my Hawks top on for the day.

 

[Coathanger]

Nash is currently best 22.
Played in the final game too I thought.
And he made the top 6 in the AFL report.
Some people just ignore those they hate.

Best 22 when we have multiple injuries maybe!

 

[Yardie]

Best 22 when we have multiple injuries maybe!

I don't understand the logic. Everyone complains that the midfield mix doesn't work. We change the midfield mix (and yes partly due to injury) with the like of Nash & Newcombe and things start to change for the better. Then people start saying we should go back to what we had before

I thought Howe was good in the middle during 2018 as that big body (and we made top 4). I think Nash is good in the middle as that big body (we improved at the back end). Plenty people on hear talk about drafting a big bodied mid with our first pick but then don't want to actually use the ones we have in the current mix.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Nash is currently best 22.
Played in the final game too I thought.
And he made the top 6 in the AFL report.
Some people just ignore those they hate.

Who hates him? Which posters? Do you know what "hate" actually means?

 

[Billyc]

Who hates him? Which posters? Do you know what "hate" actually means.

To some it seems to mean “does not rate footballer’s ability as highly as I rate footballer’s ability.”

 

[Judd2Sewell]

To some it seems to mean “does not rate footballer’s ability as highly as I rate footballer’s ability.”

Which is really kind of moronic.

 

[Noel Gallagher]

Who hates him? Which posters? Do you know what "hate" actually means?

Here we go again

 

[HawkXNtric]

I have been trying to amuse myself by looking at the Dees and WB playing lists, particularly their midfields, and seeing how they contrast with the Hawks 2021 midfield units. It's all a bit subjective of course, as it depends on who you include, but there are a few points that stand out for me...

Demons
Petracca - 186cm, #2 2014 ND
Oliver - 187cm, #4 2015 ND
Viney - 178cm, #26 2012 ND (F/S)
Brayshaw - 187cm, #3 2014 ND
Langdon - 182cm, #54 2014 ND
Harmes - 185cm, 2015 Rookie Draft
Sparrow - 183cm, #27 2018 ND

Bulldogs
Bontempelli - 193cm, #4 2013 ND
MacRae - 192cm, #6 2012 ND
Libba - 184cm, #41 2010 ND (F/S)
Smith - 185cm, #7 2018 ND
Hunter - 182cm, #49 2012 ND (F/S)
Dunkley - 191cm, #25 2015 ND
Treloar - 184cm, GWS Priority Selection 2011

Hawks
Mitchell - 182cm, #21 2011 ND (F/S)
O'Meara - 183cm, GC Priority Selection 2012
Shiels - 183cm, #34 2008 ND
Wingard - 183cm, #6 2011 ND
Worpel - 185cm, #45 2017 ND
Phillips - 187cm, #58, 2015 ND
Cousins - 185cm, 2016 Rookie Draft

Observations
- The Bulldogs have some really tall midfielders (Bont, MacRae, Dunkley all over 190cm).
- Both the Bulldogs and Demons are loaded with early draft picks (Petracca, Oliver, Brayshaw - Bont, MacRae, Smith).
- Gee the Bulldogs have done well with Father/Son picks (above excludes Wallis and West also).
- The Demons midfield has largely been built around draft picks from 2014-2015 (back when we were winning flags).
- The Bulldogs midfield has largely been built around draft picks from 2011-2013 (back when we were starting to win flags).
- The Hawks midfield by comparison is smaller, older and only includes Wingard and O'Meara as high-end draft picks.

Having done this exercise I am now slightly depressed, as it appears that while we were winning flags in 2013-2015 teams such as the Demons and Bulldogs were sneakily building there future Grand Final lists by actually using their early draft picks gained through low ladder finishes. If only we knew this at the time! (Insert Sarcasm font). However the down side is that we really need to inject some midfield talent via the top end of the draft and we may need to be very patient. Hopefully we can land a talent or two via the draft this year, plus at least one (or two) of Newcombe/Nash/Maginness/Downie develop into top-end talent.

Apologies if any of the above figures are incorrect - I'm sure some of the heights are dodgy - but I've transcribed them from the official AFL club websites.

 

[number23]

Thanks for the stats ! I love that you went and did them.

I wouldn't worry too much about the average sizes of mids although I can see that it's a slowly emerging "trend". Freo had Fyfe and Mundy yet the Tigers have won 3 flags in 4 years with average sized players in the midfield. Cripps is a big boy but people are now saying that perhaps the game has passed him by because of his lack of pace. I think that it's the combination of midfield strengths and weaknesses that matter. We have a sluggish midfield with only Wingard with any acceleration out of a contest. We lack pace on the outside which I hope that a Bramble, CJ or recent draftees like Seamus Mitchell will cure. Quality mids that have size and speed like The Bont are rare and there are not many of them in this year's draft. We need to even out the speed/quality mix in the mids and that's where Josh Ward comes in vs. an inside mid like Hobbs.

There is no doubt that building a good age cohort through a number of drafts works eg Cats (1999 - 2002), Hawks (2001, 2005), Tigers (2006- 2008). It builds a team/mates grouping and it's something that the Cats and Hawks have tried to top up near the end and we know how that has not worked. The problem with any dynasty is that you suffer from the poor draft positions and decent young talent unable to crack the side and looking for opportunities elsewhere. The Tigers are already suffering from this with Chol and Coleman-Jones leaving. The Tigers have the advantage this year with a decent draft position and the fact that some of their mid level players are not that old. Let's see how that plays out.

It's a pity that TOM wants to stay. We would get another Top 10 pick for him and that would accelerate our build.

 

[Noel Gallagher]

Thanks for the stats ! I love that you went and did them.

I wouldn't worry too much about the average sizes of mids although I can see that it's a slowly emerging "trend". Freo had Fyfe and Mundy yet the Tigers have won 3 flags in 4 years with average sized players in the midfield. Cripps is a big boy but people are now saying that perhaps the game has passed him by because of his lack of pace. I think that it's the combination of midfield strengths and weaknesses that matter. We have a sluggish midfield with only Wingard with any acceleration out of a contest. We lack pace on the outside which I hope that a Bramble, CJ or recent draftees like Seamus Mitchell will cure. Quality mids that have size and speed like The Bont are rare and there are not many of them in this year's draft. We need to even out the speed/quality mix in the mids and that's where Josh Ward comes in vs. an inside mid like Hobbs.

There is no doubt that building a good age cohort through a number of drafts works eg Cats (1999 - 2002), Hawks (2001, 2005), Tigers (2006- 2008). It builds a team/mates grouping and it's something that the Cats and Hawks have tried to top up near the end and we know how that has not worked. The problem with any dynasty is that you suffer from the poor draft positions and decent young talent unable to crack the side and looking for opportunities elsewhere. The Tigers are already suffering from this with Chol and Coleman-Jones leaving. The Tigers have the advantage this year with a decent draft position and the fact that some of their mid level players are not that old. Let's see how that plays out.

It's a pity that TOM wants to stay. We would get another Top 10 pick for him and that would accelerate our build.

Libba is 182cm - has grown from his draft year from 178cm