NRL NRL 2023 - Grand Final Penrith vs Brisbane

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So a very risky play that gave the ball away in a dangerous position.

How the * are you defending the decision to go for it? He doesn't do that, they very likely win. For all your talk about being a betting man, that's a pretty poor understanding of risk vs reward.

You kick it long it’s the same things teams are quite used to defending set lines. The blame falls earlier when they had 24-8 and played a dreadful 5mins. That’s where it was lost not a kick at the end.
 
This, absolutely this was where the game was there to be put to bed.. Yeah there was other errors in the 2nd half and cleary was ridiculous in the last 20 mins. But if broncos don't muck around throwing stupid passes or offloads and just compete that set or get a drop out, then they run another few minutes off the clock, things could've been so different

Even just completing the set getting tackled in the corner. You invited a great team back in when you didn’t have to
 
Reynolds is a smart enough footballer to know that if you keep inviting a team as good as Penrith to start sets 20-30m out from your line it’s almost inevitable, especially in the back end of a game unlike the first 20 when Broncos were still defending with energy, that they will score or at worst earn another drop out and ramp that pressure up. He’s attempted two short ones already and one failed miserably and one led to a Penrith try.

His other options are stab for the sideline or pump it long and meet them around the 30 and invite that pressure.

Maybe he was looking too hard for the miracle play but I don’t think there was a heap wrong with it
Didnt seem very smart last night when he ****ed up a 1 in 100 play twice in a row and kicked on the fourth into a breeze straight down the oppos throat.

He had a bad night and ultimately when you lose those errors are magnified.
 

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You kick it long it’s the same things teams are quite used to defending set lines. The blame falls earlier when they had 24-8 and played a dreadful 5mins. That’s where it was lost not a kick at the end.

Also worth remembering the amount of work Brisbane did in the first half just to stay in the game doesn’t come without its price. They were gassed
 
Also worth remembering the amount of work Brisbane did in the first half just to stay in the game doesn’t come without its price. They were gassed

Shouldn’t have. One to it if they weren’t so dumb at 24-8 in that set. Said it to my dad at the time that was an arrogant set and it cost them
 
Didnt seem very smart last night when he ****ed up a 1 in 100 play twice in a row and kicked on the fourth into a breeze straight down the oppos throat.

He had a bad night and ultimately when you lose those errors are magnified.
It’s not 1 in 100 though.

It’s actually very very very small odds that he actually strikes an attempted stab drop-kick well enough to pump it flat that far without touching the ground. The most likely outcome generally is that it will scrub along the ground and just end up with a player being tackled in a fairly normal part of the field
 
Didnt seem very smart last night when he ****ed up a 1 in 100 play twice in a row and kicked on the fourth into a breeze straight down the oppos throat.

He had a bad night and ultimately when you lose those errors are magnified.

Just wonder whether that tackle in the first half might have had a groin injury wouldn’t be shocked if he took an injection at HT.
 
It’s not 1 in 100 though.

It’s actually very very very small odds that he actually strikes an attempted stab drop-kick well enough to pump it flat that far without touching the ground. The most likely outcome generally is that it will scrub along the ground and just end up with a player being tackled in a fairly normal part of the field
Which would be the same outcome as a regular drop out.

What he attempted to do is a 100-1 outcome and what happened with one was what you described and the other went OOF.

It wasnt a smart decision and it wasnt good execution.

His first short drop out he did perfectly and Herbie and co ****ed it up.

With a lead you dont need to be doing 100-1 s**t, you need to be executing fundamentals, we didnt, we lost.
 
Shouldn’t have. One to it if they weren’t so dumb at 24-8 in that set. Said it to my dad at the time that was an arrogant set and it cost them

Of course there were bad decisions, no team ever loses from 24-8 up without making them, same as no team ever goes down 24-8 without making them. Trying to take Ezra Mam ball and all when he steps off his left is a bad decision when you should be targeting his waist but it happens because players start to feel the pinch and drift from what they do when theyr at full capacity. Realistically though Penrith had more in reserve as they spent more time in the game dictating it’s speed and while you can look at some of the silly passes and poor handling as a reason - and it was - you can just as easily look at the players falling off Cleary (both his try for leota and his solo try) and Crichton and understand that Brisbane were low on fuel
 
Which would be the same outcome as a regular drop out.

What he attempted to do is a 100-1 outcome and what happened with one was what you described and the other went OOF.

It wasnt a smart decision and it wasnt good execution.

His first short drop out he did perfectly and Herbie and co ****ed it up.

With a lead you dont need to be doing 100-1 s**t, you need to be executing fundamentals, we didnt, we lost.

I’m not saying it was a good decision, I’m saying I just don’t think it was a fait accompli that even trying it was that fraught with danger. Even Reynolds himself would have been staggered at how well he actually struck them given what he was trying to do
 
Just wonder whether that tackle in the first half might have had a groin injury wouldn’t be shocked if he took an injection at HT.
Thats fair but he still made poor choices and showed poor leadership.

We needed 2-3 completed sets, with 5 tackles, some yardage and a kick and chase in the last 20 and we couldnt get that, hes not responsible for every bad set and every poor decision but he had a few.
 
I’m not saying it was a good decision, I’m saying I just don’t think it was a fait accompli that even trying it was that fraught with danger. Even Reynolds himself would have been staggered at how well he actually struck them given what he was trying to do
Yeh, so it was a poor choice and he made it twice. The second didnt go badly but it still didnt benefit us at all so what was the point.

Risk management when you have a lead, there was no risk management in doing it.
 
Thats fair but he still made poor choices and showed poor leadership.

We needed 2-3 completed sets, with 5 tackles, some yardage and a kick and chase in the last 20 and we couldnt get that, hes not responsible for every bad set and every poor decision but he had a few.

The error on the set at 24-8 was crucial. What was wrong with holding the ball for 6 tackles and at worst getting tackled in a corner? That’s where the game was lost
 

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The error on the set at 24-8 was crucial. What was wrong with holding the ball for 6 tackles and at worst getting tackled in a corner? That’s where the game was lost

It’s harsh pinning all of that on Reynolds - there were a few occasions when they got tackled on the last as well having decided not to go to him.
Reynolds is generally a fantastic game manager but it’s worth remembering that without him they don’t really have anyone else who can naturally bring calm to a situation. Billy Walters is a kid, Mam is flashy but not a game manager, Walsh is a kid, Carrigan as good as he is, is still a kid and playing his first grand final as well. Haas is the next steadiest player they have and he’s a prop, he can carry them on his back all he wants but his influence on the approach of his team is limited.

Panthers in addition to having most of their play in grand finals previously, have a rock solid fullback who isn’t dissimilar to Tedesco in his management and direction from the back, Yeo who is as calm as it gets and always has his hands on the ball and can help Cleary steer the team, and Mitch Kenny at hooker has nearly 100 games under his belt, and served as an understudy for a fantastic hooker in Koroisau.

I don’t quite buy into the hyperbole on social media of ‘this proves how s**t Luai is’ but there’s absolutely no doubt that the one key player Penrith could most afford to lose in a scenario where they had to stay calm, was him. He’s a fantastic player with his footwork and ball running when they’re on top but he was never ever going to turn the tide last night
 
It’s harsh pinning all of that on Reynolds - there were a few occasions when they got tackled on the last as well having decided not to go to him.
Reynolds is generally a fantastic game manager but it’s worth remembering that without him they don’t really have anyone else who can naturally bring calm to a situation. Billy Walters is a kid, Mam is flashy but not a game manager, Walsh is a kid, Carrigan as good as he is, is still a kid and playing his first grand final as well. Haas is the next steadiest player they have and he’s a prop, he can carry them on his back all he wants but his influence on the approach of his team is limited.

Panthers in addition to having most of their play in grand finals previously, have a rock solid fullback who isn’t dissimilar to Tedesco in his management and direction from the back, Yeo who is as calm as it gets and always has his hands on the ball and can help Cleary steer the team, and Mitch Kenny at hooker has nearly 100 games under his belt, and served as an understudy for a fantastic hooker in Koroisau.

I don’t quite buy into the hyperbole on social media of ‘this proves how s**t Luai is’ but there’s absolutely no doubt that the one key player Penrith could most afford to lose in a scenario where they had to stay calm, was him. He’s a fantastic player with his footwork and ball running when they’re on top but he was never ever going to turn the tide last night
I don’t put it all on Reynolds. Carrigan had a loose carry after Haas got us out of danger. Walsh was out of position pretty badly 2 or 3 times.

To your point though, Reynolds is the leader, he is the old head with the experience and he capitulated last night in that role.
 
I don’t put it all on Reynolds. Carrigan had a loose carry after Haas got us out of danger. Walsh was out of position pretty badly 2 or 3 times.

To your point though, Reynolds is the leader, he is the old head with the experience and he capitulated last night in that role.

To a degree. He also stayed on the field with his side trailing 8-0 and with nothing going for them in a situation in which he had no right to still be out there. It’s six of one half a dozen of the other
 
To a degree. He also stayed on the field with his side trailing 8-0 and with nothing going for them in a situation in which he had no right to still be out there. It’s six of one half a dozen of the other
Don’t agree at all. Cooper Cronk stayed on the field through injury and steered his side. Reynolds stays out he’s fit enough to play.
 
Don’t agree at all. Cooper Cronk stayed on the field through injury and steered his side. Reynolds stays out he’s fit enough to play.

Cronk could do this because he could run. He could be absolutely anywhere he needed to be to bark orders, and he had a side stacked with players who had been in and around finals for years.

Oh, and he’s a miles better player than Reynolds, with due respect, has ever been.
 
Cronk could do this because he could run. He could be absolutely anywhere he needed to be to bark orders, and he had a side stacked with players who had been in and around finals for years.

Oh, and he’s a miles better player than Reynolds, with due respect, has ever been.
Not really relevant to the point being made but sure.
 
A whole group of people are to blame for the loss. It was a collective effort. From the coach, to the onfield general, to the individual players

Thing is...Broncos played super aggressive to go toe to toe with a giant....they had to if they wanted to beat them....so credit to them for being nuts out there in the opening 60 minutes, so many mistakes during that 60 minute period part of the pill you swallow if you play so aggressively.

Kudos for all that. But once you go up 24-8 with 20 minutes left in a Grand Final, it's time to play it smart. Walters at fault for encouraging to keep playing the same, finish them off. It's what they usually do, but this is Penrith in a Grand Final.

The errors made in the last 20 a result of that tactical flaw, f you keep playing aggressively you're just inviting more errors etc. When you're behind, ok. When you're ahead, a different approach is required. You can still be aggressive in a tactical/defensive way --- kicks and chases into the corners, repeat sets from grubbers.
 
Not really relevant to the point being made but sure.

The criticism being levelled at Reynolds is that he should have been better at managing Brisbane over the line. Ok, reasonable.

Equally, he shouldn’t have been on the field. It was a miracle that he was, and if a scenario like Cronk’s is worthy of praise for merely being an onfield director, then so too is Reynolds for his management up until things went pear shaped.

Also, if you’re going to compare those two scenarios - aside from needing to allow for the fact that one player was a rung or two below Thurston and Smith as the best player of his generation - remember that the Roosters that year spent a week training for the exact scenario you’re describing.
The Broncos had about 30 seconds while Reynolds stretched, to work out how they could adjust to him not being at full capacity.
 
The difference is that I’m saying Reynolds has some blame, you’re trying to say he doesn’t, or that it’s offset.

You’re welcome to your opinion, I think it’s wrong.

Where have I said that?
I’ve said that he is partly to blame but that there’s also a realistic chance that he shouldn’t have been on the field and the game may have been over by half time if he wasn’t
 
Moses Leota hopefully going to start getting some real recognition for just how special of a player he is, back to back grand finals where he has just been completely physically dominant. I think i rate him slightly higher than JFH to be honest.

Growing up was Tony Puletua and Joe Galuvao but this duo is just on another level.

Critta is going to be missed big time, i hope he kills it at the Dogs and can turn them around. He is a very special player, best centre in the game and only goes up a level in big games!
 

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