Rumour Ollie Wines - will he go or will he stay?

[Powerage]

Wines might get traded at the end of the year because he’s got the most currency out of him and Powell-Pepper.

Remember - those two were recruited before the 6-6-6 rule came into effect and teams would stack their midfield with big bodies to stop us running (look at Sydney in R2, 2015). That’s why we brought in Powell-Pepper in the first place, and why Boak was shifted out of the mid and Ebert was put inside.

Powell-Pepper can run a bit. Wines is slow as fu**. There’s literally only room in the team for one of them if you want to win a flag.

I like Ollie, but business is business.

It will be interesting. I don't think a decision will be made until later in the year unless Wines makes it clear from the get-go that he is leaving.

I have no idea what a 90kg Oliie is going to look like on the field. Clearly he has got the message that he has got to be more mobile to get the most out of himself in the current iteration of the game. Whether he has put similar effort into his disposal we will find out.

It might not be decided by pure game day ability. SPP has had his issues off-field and the club might decide to go with the more professional player whoever that proves to be, and regardless of currency. Especially in a compromised draft with limited talent.

I do agree that by years end, one goes and one stays.

 

[Jason K]

Yes, it is hard to quantify. I concede. His statistics were inflated, even though he was the youngest player on either the clearance or contested possessions list (where contested possessions may or may not have anything to do with stoppages). Despite being runner up in the Best and Fairest list that year we should get rid of him post haste, hell we should have got rid of him last year. We could have got rid of him in 2018 to get us early pick in the superdraft.

Regardless of his on field pro's and con's, his character has put a lot of Port supporters offside. He could have put last year behind him, knuckled down and tried to re-endear himself to the members and supporters instead of trolling them with Insta pics on the river. I have 16 on my only BiB guernsey and always hoped he would be a great Port Adelaide captain but I see now his character is not worthy of being a Port great. He could win a brownlow at Carlton in 2021 and my mind won't be changed.

I was gutted when we traded Wingard (still am). Same with Howard, Polec and I am also one of the few that was gutted at losing Pittard. I am totally fine with trading Ollie now he is showing his true colours. His strength of character is being found wanting.

 

[Expat power]

So he is a massively underperforming player who is worth Hately and a first-round draft pick.

Drew has done very little to prove he could be a Wines replacement. Neither for that matter has SPP who also may or may not be here at season's end.

Go ahead and knock Wines or get rid of him. Up to the trade period last year, he was an extremely loyal player who got the highest rate of pay offered to him as any sane being would. He has been our highest performing clearance mid since just about day one but everyone seems certain we have the players to cover him, especially if we can get the as yet unproven Lukoscious who at this stage could either be the next Jack Watts or Buddy Franklin, and who after one season has already signed a contract extension until the end of 2022.

Few people seem to be thinking of team balance as it is entirely possible if Wines is traded we will be back to where we were in the early Hinkley years screaming for more inside clearance mids. Our best clearance mids are over 30. The others that would fill Wines role are either very inconsistent or barely embryos in their football career.

Personally I wouldn't blame Wines for wanting to go. Everybody is entitled to one fu**up in their career and he has had his. Given what he has done for the club and the flak he is now receiving I'd be looking to go elsewhere as well.

THIS! Exactly this. As a supporter base we’ve shown no loyalty to Wines. I can’t blame him for wanting to go - he had shown incredible loyalty to Port constantly talking about “this great club” and what an honour it would be to lead it. He injured himself doing something he excels at and was just bloody unlucky there was a goose behind the wheel (I’m always amazed there’s not more flack given to the boat driver Dougal than to the guy who got his arm ripped out of its socket).
It’s time to back off, shut up and get behind him.

 

[Expat power]

I think he’ll stay

Why’s that?

 

[afl2004]

HAHA THE SUPPORTERS FAULT FMD

Ken literally blasted wines twice on prime time games, 1 on 1 while circling like a dog that shat on the carpet , maybe daddy kenny no longer babies wines anymore and schofeild ain't exactly a sweet heart

People fall out of love , it happens it's not 1 single issue

 

[rumoursofwinter]

Is that the one at the beginning of the year that had Melbourne as the team to beat? Or the one at the end of the year which had Taylor Walker, Paddy Ryder and Ben McEvoy as elite players whilst Charlie Cameron, Treloar and Pendelbury were only above average.

Good read Champion Data, and if you run out of toilet paper.

It only comes out once a year so it focuses on the 2018 season in relation to previous years. Ie when Wines was appointed co-captain.

None of walker Ryder or McEvoy are ranked as elite? They are all ranked as above average.

Wines is rated as average at the point he was made co-captain. His kicking is noted as being very poor in all regards. His metres gained are 330 for the season which is exactly the same as his previous years and the competition average for a midfielder.

I didn't see anything about melbourne being the team to beat but obviously there numbers were up for 2018 which meant there was positive comment about their list. Clayton Oliver is rated at +65% compared to Wines -1%. His metres gained went from averaging 177 to 369. He is elite for disposals, contested possessions, intercept possessions, score involments and tackles. He is also three years younger than wines.

Successful clubs can't afford to pay massively inflated salaries to players relative to their output. Wines gets paid a massive salary. If he wants to be a bog average footy player that's fine but don't strut around pretending you are a star and donate half your salary to a more worthy cause.

 

[JimmyBeerCans]

I disagree with you = delusional muppet.

By all means, sound aghast. Can you spell hypocrite???

EDIT: Sorry, that's a PROVEN delusion muppet.

Hey i could go back pages you were the one that started with the 'Delusional thinking' thing I riffed from there.

I believe you said I distanced myself from those that were ganging up on you, the one's who wished harm to his family plus an ACL injury.. who are these posters btw?? anyhoo

 

[1954]

The PAFC that I grew up with in the 50's and 60's wouldn't have had a player like Wines (or Jonas either) anywhere near a captaincy role, it's just more proof of how far the standards of the `little old blue collar club from Alberton' have slipped.

 

[Chewy316]

He hasn't improved as a footballer in the last 5 years. Whilst I'm not going to blame him for the captaincy issue because he was more a victim of circumstance, his immaturity surrounding the whole wakeboard stuff put a lot of people offside with him. If you're elite in your game, you are given more leeway, but the knocks on him now regarding disposal are the same ones he had at the time of.the draft. Brute strength can only get you so far.

This is one of those rare instances whereby we will probably get.overs because the Victorian media.rate.him highly. I personally wouldn't have him in my best 22 given the makeup of our side.

 

[Papa G]

Hey i could go back pages you were the one that started with the 'Delusional thinking' thing I riffed from there.

I believe you said I distanced myself from those that were ganging up on you, the one's who wished harm to his family plus an ACL injury.. who are these posters btw?? anyhoo

The recently joined reincarnation of Troy Wingate did wish him an ACL.

 

[Powerage]

It only comes out once a year so it focuses on the 2018 season in relation to previous years. Ie when Wines was appointed co-captain.

None of walker Ryder or McEvoy are ranked as elite? They are all ranked as above average.

Wines is rated as average at the point he was made co-captain. His kicking is noted as being very poor in all regards. His metres gained are 330 for the season which is exactly the same as his previous years and the competition average for a midfielder.

I didn't see anything about melbourne being the team to beat but obviously there numbers were up for 2018 which meant there was positive comment about their list. Clayton Oliver is rated at +65% compared to Wines -1%. His metres gained went from averaging 177 to 369. He is elite for disposals, contested possessions, intercept possessions, score involments and tackles. He is also three years younger than wines.

Successful clubs can't afford to pay massively inflated salaries to players relative to their output. Wines gets paid a massive salary. If he wants to be a bog average footy player that's fine but don't strut around pretending you are a star and donate half your salary to a more worthy cause.

https://themongrelpunt.com/afl-season-2020/2019/12/06/the-champion-data-elite-list/

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/...n/news-story/bbf9675e7653e4c21dedd9a8bade9684

"Champion Data ranks Melbourne as the best list in the competition with the Demons boasting the league’s second-best backline, fifth-best forward line and No.1 midfield.

Jake Lever is the fifth-best key defender in the game as he recovers from a knee reconstruction and the Demons have also added Steven May, who slots in at No.11.

It shapes as a great combination."

Are you calling us a successful club??? Really?

I'm happy to agree that his output does not match his salary IMO. That's to date. Part of a contract is how the club predicts you will perform in the future, and what you will be worth to the club. Wines did not hold a ******* gun to the clubs head and tell them to pay him $800k a year. Nor, as far as I am aware, did he do a Hinkley and make pathetic noises about going to another club. That salary was negotiated taking into account future expectations, the length of the contract, what it would take to keep him in SA etc etc.

I dare you to show me anything from any media journalist to support your claim that he struts around like a star. I double dare you. If that is your own opinion fine, but its a laughable one. Elsewhere in this thread he is accused of being to meek for his size so the poor *er can't win and should just crawl around the field Breaking Bad Death Cult style. Although I am of the opinion that he should assert himself more physically for a player his size.

If you think he is overpaid, fine. Look to the club not just the player for that *up. And don't forget that his contract has 3 seasons yet to run so let's see how overpaid when he is more than a quarter of the way through his contract.

Its a joke that an above-average player who prior to this year has been exceptionally loyal to the club gets treated like an imposter who is taking the club for a long con.

 

[rumoursofwinter]

Nah. I'm saying we are an unsuccessful club because we overpay players like Wines. (And motlop and Rockliff)

I don't think Wines is a terrible player. He just isn't worth his salary. I actually agree that he is meek for his size. He plays nice. I wish he would play to his strengths and be more like Cripps and Oliver.

I largely blame hinkley and the club for wines lack of development. In my opinion the club prematurely ordained him as a great player and leader. He isn't. He's very good grunt player who should be treated as such. He isn't showing any signs of maturing and becoming the very good player he should be. It doesn't matter if you blame the club or the player. He isn't giving any bang for his buck.

Strutting around is probably the wrong term. I'm just sick of the playing group believing they are better than they are. The group has achieved nothing apart from earning good coin. If Wines can walk the walk this year and become a very good mid then good on him. If he wants to go water skiing with his dad, I really don't care but don't post it on social media to piss off the people who are overpaying your average performance and attitude.

 

[rumoursofwinter]

The other thing about Wines is the opportunity cost of his salary and trade value.

Say Wines wants to be traded, and is traded at the end of the year. Say his salary directly pays for free agent Jeremy Cameron.

Draft picks go for something like Hately and Harrison Petty.

Say all Cameron, Hately and Petty all come with a good attitude, little baggage and team first mentality.

The list is suddenly incredibly attractive for a new coach.

Wines is really the embodiment of the failure of the club over the last five years.

I reckon next year the club will be fresh and exciting (and good) with or without Wines but it's time for him to stamp himself and stop being a sook.

 

[Zakk Wylde]

If Lukosius was breaking his neck to get here, why did he just re-sign with GC?

The AFL.

Were never going to allow GC to lose any of Luko, King or Rankine this year.

 

[TeeKray]

For what it's worth, I had no problem with Wines until 12 months ago. He was top 5 in my own voting every year from 2014-2018. He hadn't developed into the player he promised to be circa 2013/2014, but he was still easily seen as an above average player with the potential to improve further as well as being a future captain.

The last 12 months has shattered all of those perceptions around what he might become. The propsect of him being a future captain has been shattered by the unprofessionalism and lack of commitment demonstrated by the wakeboarding saga, his petulant response to this day highlighting this. The prospect of him stepping up from being an above average player to a star player has also been shattered by a) the poorest season of his career in 2019 and b) the perception that he is not professional or committed enough to actually develop into that player. And the cream on the cake of course is the reported trade request and the various rumours that started this thread.

It's sad that it's come to this but Ollie has nobody but Ollie to blame.

 

[Butters Made Me Do It]

TeeKray is bang on there

 

[Iwish]

THIS! Exactly this. As a supporter base we’ve shown no loyalty to Wines. I can’t blame him for wanting to go - he had shown incredible loyalty to Port constantly talking about “this great club” and what an honour it would be to lead it. He injured himself doing something he excels at and was just bloody unlucky there was a goose behind the wheel (I’m always amazed there’s not more flack given to the boat driver Dougal than to the guy who got his arm ripped out of its socket).
It’s time to back off, shut up and get behind him.

I agree lets get behind him and hope he and the side can have the year we have been waiting 6 years for BUT you can't blame people for being upset as to what happened at the start of last year. Its not as if he had any premiship medals b & f or AA to his credits which would give him and others credits in the bank. The harsh reality is ollie like the rest of the club has achieved nothing. And only a 100% focus from all will change that.

 

[TalkingFootyNow1223]

The AFL.

Were never going to allow GC to lose any of Luko, King or Rankine this year.

So the AFL forced Lukosius to sign a new contract? That screams hostage situation and i would assume that would be classed as illegal?

 

[JimmyBeerCans]

So the AFL forced Lukosius to sign a new contract? That screams hostage situation and i would assume that would be classed as illegal?

u wot bro

 

[TalkingFootyNow1223]

u wot bro

Look amazing during afternoon walks along the beach

 

[Powerage]

The other thing about Wines is the opportunity cost of his salary and trade value.

Say Wines wants to be traded, and is traded at the end of the year. Say his salary directly pays for free agent Jeremy Cameron.

Draft picks go for something like Hately and Harrison Petty.

Say all Cameron, Hately and Petty all come with a good attitude, little baggage and team first mentality.

The list is suddenly incredibly attractive for a new coach.

Wines is really the embodiment of the failure of the club over the last five years.

I reckon next year the club will be fresh and exciting (and good) with or without Wines but it's time for him to stamp himself and stop being a sook.

But that is probably one of the reasons he is being overpaid. We are no longer an attractive destination club. Unless things change we are going to be a club that has problems holding on to its players. That's when players start to become overpaid.

We will be lucky to get Hately. We won't get the two others. Of the clubs around I'd suggest GCS, maybe Fremantle and Adelaide are the only clubs less attractive than us and that is a very arguable maybe. We couldn't even get Fantasia. Gone are the days when we can poach players from West Coast, Brisbane etc. We can't count on luring home SA players.

It is patently ridiculous to say that Wines is the embodiment of failure at the club. He had one s**t year at the club, precipitated by an offseason accident and a broken ankle. Take a realistic look at the list, including traded players and try to tell me that three-quarters of those names are not just as responsible for the clubs mediocre returns. Most importantly, they have all been poorly coached and developed.

Ollies team-first mentality has never been in question. What baggage are you talking about and what the * is this attitude s**t??? Even this pre-season he has lost 10 kilos and went with Boak to America for training over and above what is required. Now I will wait for the whinging naysayers to tell me he is only doing this to up his trade price coz it wouldn't matter what he did right now it would be ******* wrong.

Like we have looked to players like Trengove, Boak, and yes Wines to back the club and sign when it has been down, it would be nice if we had a players back for the season they have struggled, but have otherwise at every opportunity expressed their passion for the club in word and deed. If the posters on this thread were representative of the support I received as a player during a tough season you could all get ****ed and I would be out of here.

You are calling him out for being a sook, well what do you think the large percentage of dribble on here has been? A giant sook on how Wines has let us down from the get-go.

This is where I get to the point where I say I hope he goes and has a happy successful career elsewhere because he does not deserve this vitriol. Just ******* ludicrous.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

We could get Fantasia now but Essendon will probably want a first round pick as well as Ollie

 

[Us against the rest]

So you distance yourself from the other posters then bring them onside to gang up on me to add weight to your tenuous claim that I have been proven delusional.

Whatever, I'm gonna go up my Thorazine intake.

They weren't ******* cherry picked. They were in direct response to the posts I were replying too. They also had the advantage of having some basis in fact.

I don't give a s**t continue your delusional whinge fest if it makes you all feel better Maybe if you all keep up your spiteful dribble you will feel better when he gets out of this place as fast as his pilots license will take him. God knows I would. Then when he crushes us in contested possessions and clearances the year after, you can have a moan at him some more.

Slangs at his family, hope the fat buffoon does an ACL. Jesus ******* Christ I would like to see just one of you say this to his face and find out how meek he really is.

I have only seen one post where some one wished an injury upon Ollie and it wasn't JimmyBeerCans.

 

[Windy Cindy]

THIS! Exactly this. As a supporter base we’ve shown no loyalty to Wines. I can’t blame him for wanting to go - he had shown incredible loyalty to Port constantly talking about “this great club” and what an honour it would be to lead it. He injured himself doing something he excels at and was just bloody unlucky there was a goose behind the wheel (I’m always amazed there’s not more flack given to the boat driver Dougal than to the guy who got his arm ripped out of its socket).
It’s time to back off, shut up and get behind him.

I don’t care that he injured himself water skiing, I want to get rid of him cause he is an average player with below average skills on a salary of an elite player with elite skills.

He adds absolutely zero to our team. He’s a big body mid, when that all your described as ya ain’t got much.

He’s been found out in terms of pace and skills, the 2 things you need for today’s game.

 

[agmsy]

Powell-Pepper can run a bit. Wines is slow as fu**.

A couple of things are almost universally true in footy: one, disposal quality decreases as fatigue increases; and, two, physically mature draftees tend to have a greater immediate impact but a lower overall ceiling.

Wines arrived as an 18-year-old in a 23-year-old's body, and had a significant immediate impact. Our mistakes were two-fold. First, we (club and fans alike) imagined a higher ceiling than was likely reasonable for a player of Wines' size and physical maturity. Second, his continued physical development has been apathetic, if not outright detrimental, to his development as a player. Adding more bulk to Wines' frame was always going to slow him down, decrease his durability, and offset improvements to his running and endurance.

By comparison, SPP, while drafted at a similar size, seems to have followed a vastly different physical development path to Wines. We seem to have focussed a lot more on changing body composition instead of adding bulk, and (particularly in 2019) boosting his endurance and running capacity. He also has a kicking action that is at least marginally better than Wines' (albeit he still rushes or leans back on too many kicks).

In SPP's favour are:

• physical development that gives him a better chance to realise his full potential as a player
• a better tank, and an easier path to further increasing that tank if required
• lower susceptibility to fatigue (and the disposal woes that come with it), and technically better disposal
• better durability through reduced load on joints and soft tissues, because he's not lugging around 7-10% of his body weight in unnecessary muscle mass
• age, meaning more time to develop and refine him into the player he can and should be
• a lower salary
• he upsets those craven, slovenly, dog-whistling, crypto-fascist, upper-classholes at Seven, like Elspeth Hussey

I'm sure Ollie is well-liked and well-intentioned, but he's not irreplaceable (particularly commanding as much cap room as he does), and, between SPP and Drew, I wouldn't be surprised if we've already got the long-term midfield cattle to exceed what Wines is able to bring to our team.