Rolling Ashes Squad Thread, now featuring Haddin XII v Hick XII beginning p. 147

[Poorman53]

Can't possibly pick Wade as a keeper. If you wanted to go that far - you'd give the gloves to Bancroft - who is an equal keeper to Wade (equally poor for tests)

Where do you get that opinion that Wade is so bad at keeping?

Carey is by no means better than Wade. It is very interesting to see how people bag Wade for every mistake yet Carey missed huge opportunities during the world cup.

Ian Healy has recently said that Wade is one of the best keepers in the country.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Where do you get that opinion that Wade is so bad at keeping?

From watching cricket for 40 years

Wade would be ok to keep in a county warm up game to rest Paine in between tests

He’s also be fine to keep mid match in the event of injury

But he’s not talented with the gloves

I’d prefer my keeper average 5-10 less with the bat - but can keep at a test quality level

Gilchrist was never the best gloveman - but he was test quality

 

[Ducky Tie]

Where do you get that opinion that Wade is so bad at keeping?

Carey is by no means better than Wade. It is very interesting to see how people bag Wade for every mistake yet Carey missed huge opportunities during the world cup.

Ian Healy has recently said that Wade is one of the best keepers in the country.

Yeah this notion that Carey is a clear bracket above Wade as a gloveman isn’t based on any evidence. They are both at about the same level as keepers. Both well below Paine.

 

[Richard Pryor]

This is where it gets ridiculous because it's obvious what will happen.
Wade has an amazing two seasons and does everything asked of him and more (even taking wickets) But won't get a spot because of a poor intra-club practice game.

Mitch Marsh has proven again and again and again that he isn't up to it at test level, but due to one good performance in aforementioned practice match, will undoubtedly be in the squad and probably the initial starting 11.

It's like we're now the polar opposite of what England has been over their history, where England would rather go for a 37 year old with a bajillion runs and medium pace wickets in county cricket over a promising upstart with an unorthodox technique, our selectors now obsessed with playing Svengali and gambling on mediocre FC cricketers being forged into diamonds by getting parachuted into the Test team.

The most comical example of this was Ferguson getting dropped after one Test where he was run out whereas Maddinson who hadn't scored a FC ton in forever got an extended Test run which was closer to pushing him to retire than pushing him into a Test cricketer.

 

[Flapjacks]

It's like we're now the polar opposite of what England has been over their history, where England would rather go for a 37 year old with a bajillion runs and medium pace wickets in county cricket over a promising upstart with an unorthodox technique, our selectors now obsessed with playing Svengali and gambling on mediocre FC cricketers being forged into diamonds by getting parachuted into the Test team.

The most comical example of this was Ferguson getting dropped after one Test where he was run out whereas Maddinson who hadn't scored a FC ton in forever got an extended Test run which was closer to pushing him to retire than pushing him into a Test cricketer.

I’m confused by your example.

Wouldn’t Ferguson be the mediocre FC cricketer never going to make it and Maddison the young up and comer?

 

[Richard Pryor]

I’m confused by your example.

Wouldn’t Ferguson be the mediocre FC cricketer never going to make it and Maddison the young up and comer?

Ferguson was the cricketer who didn't seem all that convincing but had paid his dues and had gotten the domestic runs on the board at the time going from memory (English preference), Maddinson was a seemingly random selection with no form or numbers on his side gambling on him rising to the occassion (Australian preference).

 

[Drunkcat]

a lot of crap 17 with no pukovski in it

 

[Poorman53]

From watching cricket for 40 years

Wade would be ok to keep in a county warm up game to rest Paine in between tests

He’s also be fine to keep mid match in the event of injury

But he’s not talented with the gloves

I’d prefer my keeper average 5-10 less with the bat - but can keep at a test quality level

Gilchrist was never the best gloveman - but he was test quality

I feel you are more making assumptions based off popular opinion. Healy and Haddin both rate his keeping, Carey and Paine make many mistakes and cop little heat for them. Last summer I personally thought Paine didn't show great athleticism, I doubt that will improve with time at his age.

Carey is a talent but he needs to continue to improve his keeping. Which I believe/hope he will.

 

[eddiesmith]

I feel you are more making assumptions based off popular opinion. Healy and Haddin both rate his keeping, Carey and Paine make many mistakes and cop little heat for them. Last summer I personally thought Paine didn't show great athleticism, I doubt that will improve with time at his age.

Carey is a talent but he needs to continue to improve his keeping. Which I believe/hope he will.

Really? Healy used to rip into his keeping every time he played for Australia!

 

[Voice of the G]

a lot of crap 17 with no pukovski in it

I agree if we going 17 they should consider Pukovski.Even if he does not play a test it would be good experience for him training with them etc.BUT as some one said previously depends a lot on his health remembering he had issues last xmas.

 

[eddiesmith]

I agree if we going 17 they should consider Pukovski.Even if he does not play a test it would be good experience for him training with them etc.BUT as some one said previously depends a lot on his health remembering he had issues last xmas.

But that was a different scenario, he was picked, expected to play then at the last minute someone from outside the squad takes his spot. That would be hard on any young player, let alone one with his history.

 

[Drunkcat]

I agree if we going 17 they should consider Pukovski.Even if he does not play a test it would be good experience for him training with them etc.BUT as some one said previously depends a lot on his health remembering he had issues last xmas.

he should be in the 17 if we lose the ashes then play him if someone don't make runs after 3 tests play him then

 

[Poorman53]

Really? Healy used to rip into his keeping every time he played for Australia!

Not last summer during the Big Bash and Shield season.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

I feel you are more making assumptions based off popular opinion. Healy and Haddin both rate his keeping, Carey and Paine make many mistakes and cop little heat for them. Last summer I personally thought Paine didn't show great athleticism, I doubt that will improve with time at his age.

Carey is a talent but he needs to continue to improve his keeping. Which I believe/hope he will.

Nah.. making value judgements on watching cricket for too long. I was equally critical of Haddin, albeit he did discover some consistency late in his test career.

Carey's keeping is a level above Wade's from what I have seen over a few years. I do agree though that Carey's WC keeping was sub par and on a level that Wade produces. I wonder how much of that simply comes down to exposure for the first time on different surfaces. I would back Carey to improve to a standard displayed on home soil.

Regardless, Paine has the gloves and barring a batting meltdown, will keep them.

Healy praises anyone with green and gold on - not sure he is the best source of public feedback. And Haddin is clearly conflicted.

 

[Seedsfan]

Not last summer during the Big Bash and Shield season.

Yeah because most of the shield season he played as a specialist bat

 

[Ducky Tie]

Nah.. making value judgements on watching cricket for too long. I was equally critical of Haddin, albeit he did discover some consistency late in his test career.

Carey's keeping is a level above Wade's from what I have seen over a few years. I do agree though that Carey's WC keeping was sub par and on a level that Wade produces. I wonder how much of that simply comes down to exposure for the first time on different surfaces. I would back Carey to improve to a standard displayed on home soil.

Regardless, Paine has the gloves and barring a batting meltdown, will keep them.

Healy praises anyone with green and gold on - not sure he is the best source of public feedback. And Haddin is clearly conflicted.

That’s not how Healy commentates at all. He has been openly critical of Wade over the years so his endorsement does mean something.

 

[Poorman53]

Yeah because most of the shield season he played as a specialist bat

Righto mate I'm sure that is what it was based upon

 

[Seedsfan]

This is where it gets ridiculous because it's obvious what will happen.
Wade has an amazing two seasons and does everything asked of him and more (even taking wickets) But won't get a spot because of a poor intra-club practice game.

Mitch Marsh has proven again and again and again that he isn't up to it at test level, but due to one good performance in aforementioned practice match, will undoubtedly be in the squad and probably the initial starting 11.

Can everyone get over Wade? If he was serious about playing the Ashes he would of looked for a county deal so he would have an opportunity to prove himself in the English conditions but he didn’t so of course he is being judged of the back of the limited sample size.

Furthermore all this talk about his batting he has played 22 tests making 886 runs at 28.58 with 4 50s and 2 100s compared to Paine’s 21 tests for 984 runs at 35.14 with 5 50s

 

[Seedsfan]

Righto mate I'm that is what it was based upon

Healy has nothing to go off as he didn’t keep in the Shield

 

[Richard Pryor]

Can everyone get over Wade? If he was serious about playing the Ashes he would of looked for a county deal so he would have an opportunity to prove himself in the English conditions but he didn’t so of course he is being judged of the back of the limited sample size.

Furthermore all this talk about his batting he has played 22 tests making 886 runs at 28.58 with 4 50s and 2 100s compared to Paine’s 21 tests for 984 runs at 35.14 with 5 50s

Keeping in a Test match is a big hit to batting output though. For example Alec Stewart averaged 34.92 as a keeper and 46.70 when not and Sangakarra averages 40.48 when keeping and 66.78 when not. While he's no Sangakarra I still don't think it's fair to hold his batting numbers as a keeper against him as a specialist bat. Wade should definitely not play as a keeper batsman though.

 

[Seedsfan]

Keeping in a Test match is a big hit to batting output though. For example Alec Stewart averaged 34.92 as a keeper and 46.70 when not and Sangakarra averages 40.48 when keeping and 66.78 when not. While he's no Sangakarra I still don't think it's fair to hold his batting numbers as a keeper against him as a specialist bat. Wade should definitely not play as a keeper batsman though.

By that logic though we should play Paine in the top 6 as a specialist bat. If Wade wanted to play he should of put the work in and played county cricket.

Also DeVilliers averaged 48 as a batsmen and 57 when he was also keeping

 

[LukeParkerno1]

a lot of crap 17 with no pukovski in it

He might travel as a non playing member. There’s no rush.

 

[Richard Pryor]

By that logic though we should play Paine in the top 6 as a specialist bat. If Wade wanted to play he should of put the work in and played county cricket.

Also DeVilliers averaged 48 as a batsmen and 57 when he was also keeping

Wade has had solid domestic seasons with the bat which makes trying him out as a specialist bat a potential option, Paine has one FC century in over a decade of cricket which pretty conclusively rules him out as a specialist bat.

For the record I'm not particularly attached to Wade playing, outside of Khawaja/Warner/Smith I don't have a strong opinion for anyone in the lineup, just don't think you can write Wade off forever based on his previous failures in international cricket.

 

[Seedsfan]

Wade has had solid domestic seasons with the bat which makes trying him out as a specialist bat a potential option, Paine has one FC century in over a decade of cricket which pretty conclusively rules him out as a specialist bat.

For the record I'm not particularly attached to Wade playing, outside of Khawaja/Warner/Smith I don't have a strong opinion for anyone in the lineup, just don't think you can write Wade off forever based on his previous failures in international cricket.

He hasn’t done enough to get picked in the squad for mine. I am not writing him off he just gets overrated on here. Yeah he has made runs in Aus domestically but still a massive risk picking him in English conditions

 

[toml]

Bancrofts ability to bat for ******* ages is exactly what we need and could be the difference between the two teams. Harris is way too loose outside off stump and will be eaten alive by Broad and Anderson. I'm on the Bancroft redemption arc bandwagon