Review Round 23 = Collingwood 100-124 Brisbane Lions

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stormskye said:
Why are we still top them? Because all the other top teams have been losing games also… bris got out of jail twice in the two weeks before us
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Lions could be top of the ladder next week... and Pies are ahead because Lions lost games against bottom 8 teams.... Pies have beat all bottom 8 teams except Hawks and the problem is... Pies losses were against finals rivals.... which is more significant
 
anshell said:
Have you looked at their record at the MCG though?They’ve only won one game,yes one game,there in the last nine years.I think that is a huge factor in how they will go in the finals at the MCG and not something that should be dismissed out of hand.
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Talent and mental fortitude wins flags... Lions have the mental fortitude since they've been in the finals the last 3 years and came out empty. Heart breaks mend the mind and toughens them up... and they are a very talented team.

I really think Lions can win it all this year ever since Pies have dropped off badly... numbers show it. I just don't want to lose to Carlton in September... that's a win for me.
 
upnsmoke said:
Talent and mental fortitude wins flags... Lions have the mental fortitude since they've been in the finals the last 3 years and came out empty. Heart breaks mend the mind and toughens them up... and they are a very talented team.

I really think Lions can win it all this year ever since Pies have dropped off badly... numbers show it. I just don't want to lose to Carlton in September... that's a win for me.
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You need to relax a bit. The real stuff hasn’t started yet.
 

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anshell said:
Have you looked at their record at the MCG though?They’ve only won one game,yes one game,there in the last nine years.I think that is a huge factor in how they will go in the finals at the MCG and not something that should be dismissed out of hand.
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Talent and mental fortitude wins flags... Lions have the mental fortitude since they've been in the finals the last 3 years and came out empty. Heart breaks mend the mind and toughens them up.

I really think Lions can win it all this year ever since Pies have dropped off badly... numbers show it. I just don't want to lose to Carlton in September... that's
jmac70 said:
Nah. We had our best three players out. On the G with them back we are a massive chance.
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If Pies are back playing their early season form and Lions are having a bad day... sure.

But at both their best?... Lions have the Pies number...
 
jmac70 said:
You need to relax a bit. The real stuff hasn’t started yet.
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I am relaxed. I've lowered my expectations so low that I would just be numb when it happens... and pleasantly surprise and delighted if Pies switch it back on.
 
Maggie5 said:
Not sure he is young nor inexperienced. He is 49 and has been in coaching since 2007.

Like Cousin of Daicos I too am tired of hearing the same things after a loss. His system has been seen through and at least 5 clubs have worked it out and have the personnel to beat us. If a system is that good, no matter who is missing it should hold or at least not being beaten by teams below us.

My frustration is that he seems to have more faith in the system and players and doesn't not make any/little in game changes or takes too long when he does.

The one thing he didn't have to teach this team is defense as that is the only way we have played in the past few years.

I am just hoping that he does have something up his sleeve that will be seen in the finals.
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Literally all we have at this point

Hope that we’re just waiting for finals to get into gear.

Not a great spot to be in, but it is what it is
 
Maggie5 said:
Like Cousin of Daicos I too am tired of hearing the same things after a loss. His system has been seen through and at least 5 clubs have worked it out and have the personnel to beat us. If a system is that good, no matter who is missing it should hold or at least not being beaten by teams below us.
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Every defensive system has exploitable weaknesses. There is no such thing as one that will hold against all well executed attacks. We've got to adjust ours because teams have worked out how to attack it. We adjusted it Cats and it worked, but Brisbane were good enough to still exploit it so we'll need to adjust it again.

Some on this board are having a hissy fit as the obvious has dawned on them - we're far from certainties to win the flag - but we never were. But it seems that some had deluded themselves into thinking we were certainties and can't handle the truth. Don't join them in doom and gloom.

We're still in a great position if we can tighten up a bit and have the dice fall nicely. Enjoy the uncertainty.

Go Pies
 
sr36 said:
Every defensive system has exploitable weaknesses. There is no such thing as one that will hold against all well executed attacks. We've got to adjust ours because teams have worked out how to attack it. We adjusted it Cats and it worked, but Brisbane were good enough to still exploit it so we'll need to adjust it again.

Some on this board are having a hissy fit as the obvious has dawned on them - we're far from certainties to win the flag - but we never were. But it seems that some had deluded themselves into thinking we were certainties and can't handle the truth. Don't join them in doom and gloom.

We're still in a great position if we can tighten up a bit and have the dice fall nicely. Enjoy the uncertainty.

Go Pies
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Well said mate. Some people got way ahead of themselves
 
sr36 said:
Every defensive system has exploitable weaknesses. There is no such thing as one that will hold against all well executed attacks. We've got to adjust ours because teams have worked out how to attack it. We adjusted it Cats and it worked, but Brisbane were good enough to still exploit it so we'll need to adjust it again.

Some on this board are having a hissy fit as the obvious has dawned on them - we're far from certainties to win the flag - but we never were. But it seems that some had deluded themselves into thinking we were certainties and can't handle the truth. Don't join them in doom and gloom.

We're still in a great position if we can tighten up a bit and have the dice fall nicely. Enjoy the uncertainty.

Go Pies
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'Tighten up a bit!' 'Have the dice fall nicely!' 'Enjoy the uncertainty!" 'Don't join the doom and gloom' club!

A tweak here, an adjustment there, a sprinkle of hope, a dash of good luck, and the premiership is ours for the taking. I am just revelling in the uncertainty of it all. Me join the doom and gloom folk? Never! Nothing like believing that something is hopeless but being determined to see it otherwise. I love your optimism, sr36!
 
TheGreatGrundy said:
'Tighten up a bit!' 'Have the dice fall nicely!' 'Enjoy the uncertainty!" 'Don't join the doom and gloom' club!

A tweak here, an adjustment there, a sprinkle of hope, a dash of good luck, and the premiership is ours for the taking. I am just revelling in the uncertainty of it all. Me join the doom and gloom folk? Never! Nothing like believing that something is hopeless but being determined to see it otherwise. I love your optimism, sr36!
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I don't believe it is hopeless. I think we've got a good chance.

But yeah, I think it will take a couple of adjustments and a bit of luck. Brisbane will make some adjustments when they play a different team to us. Just as we'll make some adjustments the next time we play them. Teams adjust for their opposition every week.

And *, even when you win, you're usually just a couple of unlucky bounces away from losing. NBA teams have a 7 game play off and it's barely ever 4-0. It doesn't take a big turn around to change the result.
 
Have we got a good match up for Lachie Neale?
 

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sr36 said:
Every defensive system has exploitable weaknesses. There is no such thing as one that will hold against all well executed attacks. We've got to adjust ours because teams have worked out how to attack it. We adjusted it Cats and it worked, but Brisbane were good enough to still exploit it so we'll need to adjust it again.

Some on this board are having a hissy fit as the obvious has dawned on them - we're far from certainties to win the flag - but we never were. But it seems that some had deluded themselves into thinking we were certainties and can't handle the truth. Don't join them in doom and gloom.

We're still in a great position if we can tighten up a bit and have the dice fall nicely. Enjoy the uncertainty.

Go Pies
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Agree to all your points.

Out of our 5 losses Carlton and Hawthorn really hurt and Brisbane twice, ouch.

Hanging on to the hope that finals is like starting all over again.
 
To be honest I don’t think the game was quite as bad as some are making it out to be.The. midfield basically broke even,with two of our best best midfielders out,the forward line was good,and looked dangerous every time we went forward.It was the backline which was the biggest problem as it’s been for a month now.It’s almost as if they’ve forgotten how to defend,giving the opposition ridiculous amounts of space and refusing to man up on their opponents.

I don’t know if it’s a system problem or an effort problem,but I suspect it’s more the latter.than the former.Looking at some of the efforts last night,virtually every player on the backline had one of the worst games of their careers.Maynard was poor,Quaynor definitely had the worst game I’ve ever seen him play,and Noble was well down on his usual form.It was also a mistake to play Howe up forward when Moore was out as well.That’s taking your two best intercept marks out of the game at the same time,not a good idea when the team is struggling.

Whatever happens in the finals,you couldn’t imagine the backline playing this badly again.At least you wouldn’t want them to,anyway.
 
anshell said:
To be honest I don’t think the game was quite as bad as some are making it out to be.The. midfield basically broke even,with two of our best best midfielders out,the forward line was good,and looked dangerous every time we went forward.It was the backline which was the biggest problem as it’s been for a month now.It’s almost as if they’ve forgotten how to defend,giving the opposition ridiculous amounts of space and refusing to man up on their opponents.

I don’t know if it’s a system problem or an effort problem,but I suspect it’s more the latter.than the former.Looking at some of the efforts last night,virtually every player on the backline had one of the worst games of their careers.Maynard was poor,Quaynor definitely had the worst game I’ve ever seen him play,and Noble was well down on his usual form.It was also a mistake to play Howe up forward when Moore was out as well.That’s taking your two best intercept marks out of the game at the same time,not a good idea when the team is struggling.

Whatever happens in the finals,you couldn’t imagine the backline playing this badly again.At least you wouldn’t want them to,anyway.
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Not so bad on Expected Score apparently
 
In a clash of the heavyweights and a potential finals preview next month, Collingwood failed to get going against the Brisbane Lions who had all the answers at the right time and key moments to record a victory by 24 points at Marvel Stadium. In the first quarter, the Magpies did not generate any significant ball movement from clearances, where the Lions won the ball first more often than not, and were razor-sharp at goal with 6 majors to open up a lead of 12 points at quarter time. The second term was tougher for both sides to score goals, with Brisbane taking a 16-point-lead into half time. The third quarter finally saw Collingwood get busy in the midfield by winning clearances out of the middle a bit more often and scoring from them. The major concern was that every time the Pies scored goals, the Lions would respond just as swiftly to retain their lead, which was reduced to 12 points at three quarter time. In the final term, Brisbane shut the game down with early goals in the last quarter to put the game beyond Collingwood's reach, before the Woods scored consolation goals to reduce the losing margin to 24 points, which was respectable under the circumstances.

Collingwood only won a handful of statistical categories from the loss to Brisbane. The Magpies were able to win handballs by +11 (141 - 130), +4 for hit-outs (47 - 43), centre clearances were won by +2 (17 - 15), while tackles had a margin of +16 (76 - 60), and Marks Inside 50 had an advantage of +5 (17 - 12). Brisbane won all of the other major statistical categories of the contest, starting with disposals by +10 (345 - 335), kicks were won by +21 (215 - 194), contersted possessions were gained by +9 (135 - 126), +13 for uncontested possessions (204 - 191), intercept possessions had a gap of +5 (59 - 54), with a deficit of -4 for turnovers (54 - 58). Stoppage clearances were up by +2 (24 - 22), Tackles Inside 50 were won by +4 (9 - 5), marks had an advantage of +23 (96 - 73) with uncontested marks won by +21 (83 - 62), +2 for contested marks (13 - 11), while intercept marks had a margin of +5 (59 - 54), and Inside 50s were claimed by +8 (55 - 47). Both teams won the same number (39 each) of clearances.

Scott Pendlebury (31 disposals @ 68%, 517 metres gained, 13 contested possessions, 18 uncontested possessions, 20 kicks, 11 handballs, 4 marks, 6 tackles, 2 goal assists, 10 score involvements, 12 clearances, 7 centre clearances, 5 stoppage clearances, 9 Inside 50s & 1 goal) was exemplary with his will to win clearances constantly and pumping it forward so his forwards could take marks or compete in marking contests. Pendlebury had the ball on a dime in the third quarter when he read Mason Cox's hit-outs to perfection, while being the key instigator of creating scoring chains elsewhere on the ground.

Tom Mitchell (31 disposals @ 74%, 252 metres gained, 10 contested possessions, 21 uncontested possessions, 3 intercept possessions, 5 kicks, 26 handballs, 3 marks, 5 tackles, 1 goal assist, 7 score involvements, 3 clearances, 2 centre clearances & 6 Inside 50s) spent most of his time distributing the football by hand to teammates while he was beneath packs or dishing off handpasses to teammates who could run and carry the ball whilst the team were transitioning the ball from the back half.

Josh Daicos (26 disposals @ 69%, 609 metres gained, 7 contested possessions, 19 uncontested possessions, 2 intercept possessions, 17 kicks, 9 handballs, 6 marks, 1 goal assist, 8 score involvements, 3 clearances, 2 centre clearances, 4 Inside 50s, 2 Rebound 50s & 1 goal) was terrific on the wing once again where he impacted the scoreboard early and contributed to scoring chains on a regular basis. Due to the depleted nature of the team, Daicos got to spend some minutes in the middle and did not look out of place while he was in there.

Jack Crisp (24 disposals @ 79%, 365 metres gained, 6 contested possessions, 18 uncontested possessions, 4 intercept possessions, 9 kicks, 15 handballs, 2 marks, 9 tackles, 8 score involvements, 3 clearances, 3 stoppage clearances, 4 Inside 50s & 2 Rebound 50s) alternated with Josh Daicos on the wing, while spending considerable minutes in the midfield. Crisp ran and tackled hard, while accumulating possessions with aplomb to create scoring opportunities for his teammates up forward.

Steele Sidebottom (17 disposals @ 59%, 324 metres gained, 7 contested possessions, 10 uncontested possessions, 10 kicks, 7 handballs, 2 marks, 5 tackles, 1 goal assist, 7 score involvements, 3 clearances, 2 stoppage clearances & 5 Inside 50s) accumulated his possessions that were rushed and lacked composure under pressure, while his tackling and score involvement numbers were commendable.

Darcy Cameron (17 disposals @ 47%, 216 metres gained, 20 hit-outs, 12 contested possessions, 5 uncontested possessions, 6 intercept possessions, 11 kicks, 6 handballs, 4 marks, 2 contested marks, 5 tackles, 3 score involvements, 5 clearances, 4 stoppage clearances & 1 goal) had a challenging night where he didn't start well against Oscar McInerney at centre bounces where the Lions won the ball first on a frequent and regular basis in the first half, especially in the opening term when a hot start was required. Cameron was reasonable around the ground where he did most of his good work. Mason Cox as the substitute gave greater service in the middle, which did not bode well for Darcy's prospects going forward. The team needs him to respond with great intent and impact next weekend.

Brayden Maynard (20 disposals @ 90%, 469 metres gained, 5 contested possessions, 15 uncontested possessions, 3 intercept possessions, 15 kicks, 5 handballs, 6 marks, 5 tackles, 3 score involvements, 2 clearances, 2 stoppage clearances & 6 Rebound 50s) had a crack on a tough night, and had the added responsibility of being captain in Darcy Moore's absence.

John Noble (15 disposals @ 93%, 203 metres gained, 5 contested possessions, 10 uncontested possessions, 6 intercept possessions, 8 kicks, 7 handballs, 5 marks, 6 score involvements, 2 Rebound 50s & 1 goal) had his impact and influence reduced, but he still intercepted the ball, created ball movement and scoring chains, while Noble kicked an excellent running goal in the opening term in an attempt to lift his side.

Oleg Markov (12 disposals @ 92%, 187 metres gained, 11 uncontested possessions, 3 intercept possessions, 5 kicks, 7 handballs, 3 marks, 4 tackles, 4 score involvements & 2 Rebound 50s) played a conservative brand of footy which was within his limitations, but still contributed to the team's ball movement when the opportunities presented themselves.

Taylor Adams (16 disposals @ 69%, 274 metres gained, 7 contested possessions, 9 uncontested possessions, 11 kicks, 5 handballs, 3 marks, 6 tackles, 2 goal assists, 9 score involvements, 3 clearances, 2 centre clearances & 6 Inside 50s) wasted his opportunities up forward, but created numerous score involvements that resulted in goals or scoring shots, while Adams got a look in the midfield to see if he could impact the contest.

Brody Mihocek (15 disposals @ 40%, 347 metres gained, 6 contested possessions, 9 uncontested possessions, 12 kicks, 3 handballs, 8 marks, 2 contested marks, 4 Marks Inside 50, 9 score involvements & 2 goals) was hit and miss at goal throught the entire evening, despite displaying his aerial strength and attributes in marking contests.

Daniel McStay (13 disposals @ 69%, 207 metres gained, 2 hit-outs, 7 contested possessions, 6 uncontested possessions, 3 intercept possessions, 6 kicks, 7 handballs, 4 marks, 2 contested marks, 2 Marks Inside 50, 1 goal assist, 4 score involvements, 2 Rebound 50s & 2 goals) had an impact on the scoreboard without tearing the game apart in any shape or form.

Jamie Elliott (12 disposals @ 83%, 193 metres gained, 6 contested possessions, 6 uncontested possessions, 8 kicks, 4 handballs, 3 marks, 2 contested marks, 2 Marks Inside 50, 5 tackles, 2 Tackles Inside 50, 5 score involvements & 3 goals) made the most of his chances with effective conversion.

Jeremy Howe (9 disposals @ 78%, 102 metres gained, 5 contested possessions, 4 uncontested possessions, 6 kicks, 3 handballs, 3 marks, 2 Marks Inside 50, 3 score involvements & 2 goals) had a moderate impact on the game with a couple of nice marks and finished off his work in front of goal.

Collingwood's next game will be against Essendon on August 25 at the MCG. The Magpies have a perfect opportunity to add more pain and misery to the Bombers who copped an absolute belting at the hands of the Giants. However, the Woods have not been in overly great touch recently, but will have one last opportunity to regain confidence and lock up top spot on the AFL ladder before the finals arrive in September.
 
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Tarkyn_24 said:
To me it’s the opposite. Cox is the far better centre bounce ruck, and as such needs to be treated as the first ruck.

If Cameron can’t recapture his form as a forward it’s his spot in the side that needs to be questioned, although I loathe the thought of McStay or Johnson relief rucking. Neither can.

Frampton plays irrespective.
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I didn’t think Cameron was as bad as some seem to be suggesting. The only issue I currently have with him is that his marking has gone to s**t.
 
upnsmoke said:
Talent and mental fortitude wins flags... Lions have the mental fortitude since they've been in the finals the last 3 years and came out empty. Heart breaks mend the mind and toughens them up... and they are a very talented team.

I really think Lions can win it all this year ever since Pies have dropped off badly... numbers show it. I just don't want to lose to Carlton in September... that's a win for me.
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They have talent BUT not mental fortitude. Otherwise they would not have such an abysmal record on the MCG.
 
No SPIN said:
They have talent BUT not mental fortitude. Otherwise they would not have such an abysmal record on the MCG.
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Mental fortitude is developed... I would not write them off the MCG. Only team I am confident that would match or beat them in the MCG is Demons. Against Pies it's 50/50.

With that said, Carlton has been getting nice calls from umpires the last month and they looked real good against Pies....

All I'm saying is Pies form of late is far from premiership and Lions are ticking all the boxes.
 
frizzle said:
Our defence is only missing Moore through injury. It isn’t decimated as you put it. Moore has had bags kicked on him several times this season. Just his availability alone will not stop us leaking goals like a sieve. Murphy copped a few niggles the last 2 games but he isn’t a key tall back. But we play him as one.
‘Quaynor is no match for Charlie Cameron but he got the job again. 10 goals conceded in 2 matches against him this year. Maynard should have been the man. Mids are slow & your assessment of team defence is spot on. We don’t seem to be up for it.
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when i said decimated i should have said was ( during the game) with Murphy going down and Ryan going down ...
 
August 19, 2022 - Gabba September 9, 2022 - MCG
Brisbane 57 Brisbane 92
Melbourne 115 Melbourne 79

Recent losses can be overcome.
They’d lost their previous 4 by an average of 44 points.
 
upnsmoke said:
Mental fortitude is developed... I would not write them off the MCG. Only team I am confident that would match or beat them in the MCG is Demons. Against Pies it's 50/50.

With that said, Carlton has been getting nice calls from umpires the last month and they looked real good against Pies....

All I'm saying is Pies form of late is far from premiership and Lions are ticking all the boxes.
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It’s almost as if our season as gone up in smoke.
 
JuniorB said:
I'm all for pressure, but if we have 3 players going at the ball carrier, then a couple of opposition players have to be free.
Which can ultimately lead to oppo forwards being free out the back, as we have seen so often this year.
A guy like Charlie Cameron only needs a metre, and he's gone.
Would it have been worth trying Markov on him?
Because IQ had a stinker last night.
Brisbane got far too many easy goals - too many players just waltzing into goal without being touched.
It will be interesting to see what sort of response we get next week.
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IQ and maynard no moore and murphy going down and ryan down we were fkkked from that point
 
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