Banter The Adelaide Board Politics/COVID Thread Part 2 (WARNING NOT FOR THE FAINT-HEARTED)

[GreyCrow]

just a question - are you Adam Schiff posting on these boards - you seem to be speaking exact Democrat talking points. We heard it all before leading into the Russia Hoax, then the Zelinsky phone call. The evidence is irrefutable, he's guilty, its a natiopnal security threat and the list went on..forgive me if I don't take a word of what you say as gospel and have very little faith in the 'investigations' from here.

It also seems the top brass republicans think very differently to you. Strange that if what you are saying was all true, that the very top republicans, the ones that sit on the Senate Judiciary Committee and House Judiciary Committee are not buying whats just happened and are promising to throw their full weight into proper investigation of this whole sorry mess. My money is at the end of this, it will come out as a nothing burger and will look exactly what it was - a political hit job

Interesting piece from Politifact - hardly a republican talking piece. They seem to think its uncharted territory as the president had the constitutional right to declassify documents

What to know about presidential declassification powers

The search warrant served on former President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago home appears to involve documents that investiga

www.politifact.com

However, a subset of documents being sought by the government might be classified for national security reasons. If so, a law known as Section 1924 could come into play. This provision says that knowingly removing classified documents with the intent to keep them in an unauthorized location is a crime.

If charges are ever brought under the latter law, one obvious defense for Trump might be that he declassified these documents before leaving office. If that was done, then no classified documents would mean no crime.
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However, experts cautioned that nothing is ordinary about the current situation involving Trump. In such an unusual and high-stakes scenario, it’s hard to be too certain about how the courts would rule.

"We’re in uncharted territory on the issue of criminally prosecuting a former president over mishandling classified documents," Moss said. "There is no legal precedent to look to for guidance. It raises all sorts of constitutional implications and it is anyone’s guess how it would play out."

Try not to hang, draw and quarter him before the real facts come to light - not a left wing media manufactured narrative

He cant declassify them as a private citizen

The stupidity of his supporters start out with '' the FBI planted them'' - to ' they are declassified'

So did he declassify documents the FBI planted? I mean that is prescience unheralded

I will agree he wont go down for treason - but his history of sucking off Putin makes this such a dangerous time for the USA

 

[Slippery Pete]

And you people are worried about an orange man with funny hair. Amazing.

 

[Crow till I die]

He cant declassify them as a private citizen

The stupidity of his supporters start out with '' the FBI planted them'' - to ' they are declassified'

So did he declassify documents the FBI planted? I mean that is prescience unheralded

I will agree he wont go down for treason - but his history of sucking off Putin makes this such a dangerous time for the USA

what? he declassified them whilst he was still president.

 

[GreyCrow]

what? he declassified them whilst he was still president.

How did he do that?

Wave a wand and say sassifried declassified?

 

[Slippery Pete]

What happened to old mate Kirky?

 

[Crow till I die]

Round and round we go.
Trump had 18 months to return all the documents, NARA have been requesting these documents since he left office, Only after they approach the DOJ who issue the 1st subpoena did Trump return any documents, At that time his lawyer sign off that all the documents were returned in June NARA found out they were not again the DOJ became involved and requested the ret of the Documents again they were forced to issue a subpoena which was not followed, so they went to the next step of getting a warrant, Historically the DOJ does not like doing this within 90 days of an election which is why they went on Monday. At this time the GOP party are the only group that pushes for a criminal investigation to be announced close to an election. Historical data out there to prove that.

As for the context of the documentation it is all at the classification level. Top Secret/SCI make it impossible to ignore the severity and 99.9999% of the time points to national security documents. That is why I don't believe you even understand what that documentation means

Trump stuffed up big time and it going to bite him

No - I have already pointed out this in bold is wrong. The Lawyer signed to say that all CLASSIFIED documents were returned

And yet, they were there in June - at Mar A Lago, had access to the documents yet were happy enough to allow them to stay there and put extra locks on the door - So Trump said

And what of the warrant? - a 2 week warrant signed by a low level judge that should have recused himself that was sat on for 3 days before the Raid. Now you guys need to make your minds up. Was it because of Nuclear documents? if so, 18 months, officials there at Mar A Lago in June this year with access. Or was it trying to find the smallest issue to try and rule him out from running at the next election? Now if it was the latter, there is your 2 tiered justice system front and centre - no FBI raids on Hilary, no FBI raids and arrests for breaking of federal laws for harassing SC judges at their residences.

Political stitch up - and it will be fully investigated after mid terms

 

[Crow till I die]

How did he do that?

Wave a wand and say sassifried declassified?

Here champ - pretty much

Do presidents have 'the ability to declassify anything'?

The blockbuster article in The Washington Post saying President Donald Trump had "revealed highly classified information

www.politifact.com

Risch said, "The minute the president speaks about it to someone, he has the ability to declassify anything at any time without any process."

We found broad agreement that a president, using powers granted by the Constitution, is able to declassify essentially anything

 

[GreyCrow]

Here champ - pretty much

Do presidents have 'the ability to declassify anything'?

The blockbuster article in The Washington Post saying President Donald Trump had "revealed highly classified information

www.politifact.com

Risch said, "The minute the president speaks about it to someone, he has the ability to declassify anything at any time without any process."

We found broad agreement that a president, using powers granted by the Constitution, is able to declassify essentially anything

according to current and former intelligence officials familiar with the declassification process.

First, a U.S. president does have uniquely sweeping declassification abilities, though there is a process that involves written documentation and several other steps.

It's not the case that a president can declassify documents with just verbal instructions. His instruction to declassify a given document would first be memorialized in a written memo, usually drafted by White House counsel, which he would then sign.

Typically, the leadership of the agency or agencies with equities in the document would be consulted and given an opportunity to provide their views on the declassification decision. As the ultimate declassification authority, however, the president can decide to override any objections they raise.

Courts may ultimately have to decide how sweeping a sitting president's declassification powers can be. But U.S. officials familiar with the classification process to date point out that, unless and until the documents are stamped "Declassified" by the requisite agency, and following the submission of a written memo signed by the president, they have historically not been considered declassified.

Thanks champ


And you think Nuclear Instructions would be declassified - lol

 

[GreyCrow]

And you people are worried about an orange man with funny hair. Amazing.

And you worry too much about a man with pink hair

 

[Crow till I die]

according to current and former intelligence officials familiar with the declassification process.

First, a U.S. president does have uniquely sweeping declassification abilities, though there is a process that involves written documentation and several other steps.

It's not the case that a president can declassify documents with just verbal instructions. His instruction to declassify a given document would first be memorialized in a written memo, usually drafted by White House counsel, which he would then sign.

Typically, the leadership of the agency or agencies with equities in the document would be consulted and given an opportunity to provide their views on the declassification decision. As the ultimate declassification authority, however, the president can decide to override any objections they raise.

Courts may ultimately have to decide how sweeping a sitting president's declassification powers can be. But U.S. officials familiar with the classification process to date point out that, unless and until the documents are stamped "Declassified" by the requisite agency, and following the submission of a written memo signed by the president, they have historically not been considered declassified.

Thanks champ


And you think Nuclear Instructions would be declassified - lol

Here you go champ

New twist in FBI raid: Trump had 'standing order' to declassify documents taken to residence

Former president's office describe previously undeclared process that led to sensitive documents landing in Mar-O-Lago.

justthenews.com

Donald Trump's office told Just the News on Friday that the classified materials the FBI seized from his Mar-a-Lago estate were declassified under a "standing order" while he was president that allowed him to take sensitive materials to the White House residence at night to keep working.


The president's detractors in Congress, the DOJ, and the intelligence community are likely to contest the president's arguments. But officials familiar with national security law said courts generally have held the president's power to declassify is far-reaching and that the process for how that happens can be more happenstance, something the Bush and Obama executive orders from 2003 and 2009 made clear.

Obama's executive order no. 13526, issued in 2009, laid out the stringent process all federal officials and agencies needed to follow for declassification, but explicitly exempted the sitting president and vice president from having to follow those procedures.

 

[Mutineer]

 

[Mutineer]

The Andrews government was and is abysmal.

Your argument assumes a basic competence which is completely beyond them. If they had worked to avoid a "quick full lockdown" it might have happened, but hard to see otherwise.

 

[ad victoriam]

Here you go champ

New twist in FBI raid: Trump had 'standing order' to declassify documents taken to residence

Former president's office describe previously undeclared process that led to sensitive documents landing in Mar-O-Lago.

justthenews.com

Donald Trump's office told Just the News on Friday that the classified materials the FBI seized from his Mar-a-Lago estate were declassified under a "standing order" while he was president that allowed him to take sensitive materials to the White House residence at night to keep working.


The president's detractors in Congress, the DOJ, and the intelligence community are likely to contest the president's arguments. But officials familiar with national security law said courts generally have held the president's power to declassify is far-reaching and that the process for how that happens can be more happenstance, something the Bush and Obama executive orders from 2003 and 2009 made clear.

Obama's executive order no. 13526, issued in 2009, laid out the stringent process all federal officials and agencies needed to follow for declassification, but explicitly exempted the sitting president and vice president from having to follow those procedures.

Mate, you just don't get it. Now I am [positive you do not understand what the warrant was for.
All 3 points on the warrant do not relate to any classification, Declassified or classified means nothing on the warrant, Trump remove documents that did not belong to him. and when requested for them to be returned he failed to do so.
there is no argument about that, full stop. he removed the documents from the white house.

Maybe you should be asking why did he have the documents, what reason did he need them

The Classification argument is one he will use when they hit with the top secret documents which must be stored in a secure location when not used.
And the top Secret/SCI are not allowed to leave the secured room. When the DOJ hit him with removing top secret documents. we will see how that plays out in court.


As for standing Order
Top Secret/SCI documents CANNOT be declassified by anyone including the President. - That is a law. As they pertain to national security, they cannot even be removed from their secure location,

And I think you will find out Trump was not the sitting President when he removed the Documentation from the White House Biden was.
And classified documents do not get declassified just because he looks at them.

Don't you find it interesting that the DOJ is not authorised to view the top secret document to determine what was in them, if they were properly declassified they would be able to. but that will be tomorrow's news. as all declassified documents once removed from their secure location are marked as declassified on every page.

And you forget the White House residence is different to Mara A Lago.

 

[Crow till I die]

Mate, you just don't get it. Now I am [positive you do not understand what the warrant was for.
All 3 points on the warrant do not relate to any classification, Declassified or classified means nothing on the warrant, Trump remove documents that did not belong to him. and when requested for them to be returned he failed to do so.
there is no argument about that, full stop. he removed the documents from the white house.

Maybe you should be asking why did he have the documents, what reason did he need them

The Classification argument is one he will use when they hit with the top secret documents which must be stored in a secure location when not used.
And the top Secret/SCI are not allowed to leave the secured room. When the DOJ hit him with removing top secret documents. we will see how that plays out in court.


As for standing Order
Top Secret/SCI documents CANNOT be declassified by anyone including the President. - That is a law. As they pertain to national security, they cannot even be removed from their secure location,

And I think you will find out Trump was not the sitting President when he removed the Documentation from the White House Biden was.
And classified documents do not get declassified just because he looks at them.

Don't you find it interesting that the DOJ is not authorised to view the top secret document to determine what was in them, if they were properly declassified they would be able to. but that will be tomorrow's news. as all declassified documents once removed from their secure location are marked as declassified on every page.

And you forget the White House residence is different to Mara A Lago.

You keep regurgitating the same thing and saying it a dozen times makes it no more right than the first time you say it. Here is a legal expert's take..clerked for neil gorsuch no less

 

[Cap]

Mate, you just don't get it. Now I am [positive you do not understand what the warrant was for.
All 3 points on the warrant do not relate to any classification, Declassified or classified means nothing on the warrant, Trump remove documents that did not belong to him. and when requested for them to be returned he failed to do so.
there is no argument about that, full stop. he removed the documents from the white house.

Maybe you should be asking why did he have the documents, what reason did he need them

The Classification argument is one he will use when they hit with the top secret documents which must be stored in a secure location when not used.
And the top Secret/SCI are not allowed to leave the secured room. When the DOJ hit him with removing top secret documents. we will see how that plays out in court.


As for standing Order
Top Secret/SCI documents CANNOT be declassified by anyone including the President. - That is a law. As they pertain to national security, they cannot even be removed from their secure location,

And I think you will find out Trump was not the sitting President when he removed the Documentation from the White House Biden was.
And classified documents do not get declassified just because he looks at them.

Don't you find it interesting that the DOJ is not authorised to view the top secret document to determine what was in them, if they were properly declassified they would be able to. but that will be tomorrow's news. as all declassified documents once removed from their secure location are marked as declassified on every page.

And you forget the White House residence is different to Mara A Lago.

Just get rid of the law if your leader breaks them.

Such a openly democratic bunch. (Paul Rand is a Russian Asset mind you)

Edit - Your post is pretty spot on to. Here's how government documents are classified to keep sensitive information safe

 

[OneGreatClub]

just a question - are you Adam Schiff posting on these boards - you seem to be speaking exact Democrat talking points. We heard it all before leading into the Russia Hoax, then the Zelinsky phone call. The evidence is irrefutable, he's guilty, its a natiopnal security threat and the list went on..forgive me if I don't take a word of what you say as gospel and have very little faith in the 'investigations' from here.

It also seems the top brass republicans think very differently to you. Strange that if what you are saying was all true, that the very top republicans, the ones that sit on the Senate Judiciary Committee and House Judiciary Committee are not buying whats just happened and are promising to throw their full weight into proper investigation of this whole sorry mess. My money is at the end of this, it will come out as a nothing burger and will look exactly what it was - a political hit job

Interesting piece from Politifact - hardly a republican talking piece. They seem to think its uncharted territory as the president had the constitutional right to declassify documents

What to know about presidential declassification powers

The search warrant served on former President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago home appears to involve documents that investiga

www.politifact.com

However, a subset of documents being sought by the government might be classified for national security reasons. If so, a law known as Section 1924 could come into play. This provision says that knowingly removing classified documents with the intent to keep them in an unauthorized location is a crime.

If charges are ever brought under the latter law, one obvious defense for Trump might be that he declassified these documents before leaving office. If that was done, then no classified documents would mean no crime.
.
.
.
.
However, experts cautioned that nothing is ordinary about the current situation involving Trump. In such an unusual and high-stakes scenario, it’s hard to be too certain about how the courts would rule.

"We’re in uncharted territory on the issue of criminally prosecuting a former president over mishandling classified documents," Moss said. "There is no legal precedent to look to for guidance. It raises all sorts of constitutional implications and it is anyone’s guess how it would play out."

Try not to hang, draw and quarter him before the real facts come to light - not a left wing media manufactured narrative

Still defending Trump. What a hill to die on.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Still defending Trump. What a hill to die on.

I don’t think it’ll come to that.

This thing was way more unpopular than they thought it would be.

It’s only the most deranged who are obsessing over Trump, and want this thing to keep going until CNN gets vision of him being led away in handcuffs.

Most people don’t give a s**t.

 

[Bearded Clam]

View attachment 1477336

Is this all the crazy christian hard rihht have got left?… just come up with memes to try and attack Dan?..

Have you seen the latest polling?..

They have completely collapsed for The Lobster Mobster Guy and his useless liberal party of god bothering mormons, evengilists and happy clapping losers..

The Vic ALP is polling at 60% 2PP!..

The Vic libs are heading for a complete wipe out.

 

[Bearded Clam]

 

[Slippery Pete]

The Vic libs are heading for a complete wipe out.

Useless

 

[Slippery Pete]

View attachment 1477750View attachment 1477751View attachment 1477752View attachment 1477753View attachment 1477754View attachment 1477755

You think the Republicans are going to lose the midterms?

 

[Bearded Clam]

You think the Republicans are going to lose the midterms?

who knows… i dont follow it all that closely..

But historically dem voters dont turn out for midterm elections.

 

[Crow till I die]

I don’t think it’ll come to that.

This thing was way more unpopular than they thought it would be.

It’s only the most deranged who are obsessing over Trump, and want this thing to keep going until CNN gets vision of him being led away in handcuffs.

Most people don’t give a s**t.

Its like never ending trump derangement syndrome. Its funny how people here are wishing it to be bad, aren't waiting for any evidence let alone any examination of said evidence. Forget a fair trial, some here have hung drawn and quartered the guy already. Imagine it ending up a nothing burger...again, especially as a president can declassify anything at any time as president and said he did.

Its a political stitch up. Everyone sees it but some refuse to accept it

 

[Crow till I die]

Still defending Trump. What a hill to die on.

Hey congratulations on keeping Ken Hinkley on next year

 

[OneGreatClub]

Its like never ending trump derangement syndrome. Its funny how people here are wishing it to be bad, aren't waiting for any evidence let alone any examination of said evidence. Forget a fair trial, some here have hung drawn and quartered the guy already. Imagine it ending up a nothing burger...again, especially as a president can declassify anything at any time as president and said he did.

Its a political stitch up. Everyone sees it but some refuse to accept it