The Ashes. Fourth Test Australia v England @ The SCG 5-9 January

Who will win?

  • Australia

    Votes: 62 84.9%
  • England

    Votes: 11 15.1%

  • Total voters
    73
  • Poll closed .

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FredLeDeux

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I wasn’t talking about the Australian selectors having Vicbias. I’m Victorian, I don’t want any player in the team who is a dud especially a Victorian dud stinking up the joint. I don’t think there’d be too many posters here that would a dud player from their own state in the team either.


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WA excepted
 

Lego23

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If Khawaji had failed with the bat both innings of the 4th test it would be in "In Head out Khawaji"OR are you suggesting they would bring in Street or another promising young opener and both Harris and Khawaji are out (I am saying if Khawaja failed with the bat)
No he would have kept his spot, but only due to a lack of other options. Not because he had performed up to standard.

It’s like an average key forward that gets picked most weeks because he crashes packs and brings the ball to ground which is his ‘role’ despite not hitting the scoreboard. He will keep getting picked until someone comes along who can do both, he wouldn’t be unlucky to be dropped.

If you look at his entire test career he has underperformed

If you look at just this series he has underperformed

If you break it down to just the last two test he probably gets a pass, but a C+ not and A.

He ha had a lot of opportunities and hasn’t performed, he isn’t unlucky.
 

Gethelred

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Selection is a frustration.

Jhye a little sore, but capable of playing = straight out

Boland sore = 11th hour fitness tests
Let's be fair dinkum now.

There is a difference between how Boland has bowled and how Richo has bowled. Boland has 14 wickets from two tests, at a strike rate of 23.64 and an economy of 2.19; Richo has 11 from 3, at a strike rate of 48.64 and an economy of 2.73. One is clearly on a red hot vein of form at the moment, regardless of how much one might rate the other.
 

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Lego23

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Let's be fair dinkum now.

There is a difference between how Boland has bowled and how Richo has bowled. Boland has 14 wickets from two tests, at a strike rate of 23.64 and an economy of 2.19; Richo has 11 from 3, at a strike rate of 48.64 and an economy of 2.73. One is clearly on a red hot vein of form at the moment, regardless of how much one might rate the other.
This is true however what is the point of our wealth of depth if you won’t make the most of it? You have a niggle? alright take a test off. Next best in.
 

Gethelred

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This is true however what is the point of our wealth of depth if you won’t make the most of it? You have a niggle? alright take a test off. Next best in.
I don't disagree at all. Just, it makes sense to me that even with our depth they would prefer Boland to Richardson at the moment, as much because Richardson is more a strike bowler than a workhorse and they need someone who can bowl a lot of overs if necessary more at present.
 

Lego23

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I don't disagree at all. Just, it makes sense to me that even with our depth they would prefer Boland to Richardson at the moment, as much because Richardson is more a strike bowler than a workhorse and they need someone who can bowl a lot of overs if necessary more at present.
No issue with preferring the guy in red hot form although not sure we need the workhorse. 3 quicks plus Lyon, Green and a few over from the Leggies in a pinch is more than enough to share the load.

I also think Richardson is unfairly labeled a strike bowler/similar to Starc. His work with the old ball is good and he can impact the game in several ways.

It’s a bit irrelevant either way, it will be Boland if fit and Richardson if not for the next test. Assuming Starc is fit.
 
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Happy Mastenator

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I don't disagree at all. Just, it makes sense to me that even with our depth they would prefer Boland to Richardson at the moment, as much because Richardson is more a strike bowler than a workhorse and they need someone who can bowl a lot of overs if necessary more at present.
Not sure Boland is going to be a workhorse if he's under a cloud.
 

deanc

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Being pretty generous suggesting 38 and 27 is doing his part, I get he blunted the new ball but he has had 14 tests and 26 innings to show he is cut out for test cricket and has fallen well and truly short. Not sure where the numbers sit after the past 2 tests but he would still be close to our worst all time test opener.

He wasn’t unlucky to be dropped.

While Harris's omission is no surprise given Khawaja's recent feats, it's still a little white flag moment for the selectors with two 35yo's opening the batting in a test when the series is over...
I also wouldn't be too quick to assume this is the end for Harris, although fingers crossed the Hunts/Streets/other young prospects continue their development and arrive soon...
 

Jim Prideaux

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The manufacturing process of the red and pink Kookaburra's balls is identical - aside from colour of the dye used with the pink ball and it's black stitching.

Accordingly, it's the atmospheric conditions of the venue that often promotes swing, rather than the different coloured ball. The main reason the media and cricket commentators speculate otherwise is to create discussion, purely for the sake of discussion.
There was also a suggestion initially that the pink-balls received extra coats of lacquer to maintain their colour and thereby promoting swing, but this has been refuted by the manufacturer...
Didn’t they change the lacquer on the red ball recently, swear I read that somewhere
 

deanc

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Didn’t they change the lacquer on the red ball recently, swear I read that somewhere

Possibly - but again they wouldn't change such a process for just one colour ball, be it red, pink, white or yellow.

For those interested, here's a rather old, short related documentary:

 
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Jim Prideaux

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Possibly - but again they wouldn't change such a process for just one colour ball, be it red, pink, white or yellow.

For those interested, here's a rather old, short related documentary:


Was wondering more if the brought it into line with how the pink ball was made. Anecdotally the white balls always felt a touch harder in the beginning to me. Nothing to back that up though.
 

Happy Mastenator

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While Harris's omission is no surprise given Khawaja's recent feats, it's still a little white flag moment for the selectors with two 35yo's opening the batting in a test when the series is over...
I also wouldn't be too quick to assume this is the end for Harris, although fingers crossed the Hunts/Streets/other young prospects continue their development and arrive soon...
Harris isn’t the answer based on form.

feel the selectors expect to have puckovoski in 12-18 months to fill one spot, with the hope another of the younger ones is ready to go shortly after.
 

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deanc

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Was wondering more if the brought it into line with how the pink ball was made. Anecdotally the white balls always felt a touch harder in the beginning to me. Nothing to back that up though.

Yep, the psychological aspects, feeling etc. are the main claims, which is why you often hear current bowlers state the pink-ball 'feels' much more like the white balls used in ODI's vs the red ball...
Moreover, I recall in Indoor Cricket (during my playing days) I felt and was considered a rather quick and difficult bowler to face - however, in the 'real game' with a red ball, I was barely a decent medium pace net bowler, who (as a batsmen) would only bowl when our actual bowlers needed a spell...
 

Westend

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Let's be fair dinkum now.

There is a difference between how Boland has bowled and how Richo has bowled. Boland has 14 wickets from two tests, at a strike rate of 23.64 and an economy of 2.19; Richo has 11 from 3, at a strike rate of 48.64 and an economy of 2.73. One is clearly on a red hot vein of form at the moment, regardless of how much one might rate the other.


Lets be fair dinkum okay.....

I have no issue with Boland playing I do have and issue with starc playing

Lets see the facts.......Jhye takes 5 wickets to win the test in the last innings on one of the flattest wickets this series ...taking 5 wicket is like making a hundred for a bowler

Jhye gets injured gets rested/dropped for tests 3 and 4 fair enough...Jhye is now declared fit to play

Starc has a great three tests but fails to deliver a victory on the last day of the fourth test takes 1/120

Starc has a proven track record of tiring in long test series and bowls worse as the series continues

Starc gets picked on his reputation of bowling with a pink ball...which is good...but jhye has just taken 5 wickets with a pink ball the equivalent of a batter making a hundred ..so are we really losing out if Jhye bowls ??

Jhye has shown recent form in the shield by taking 7 wickets at Hobart

Starc has not bowled at hobart for ages

Selectors have stated that is was wrong last year against india to play tired bowlers and that they should of been rested at some stage .....so does resting players only mean we can only rest bowlers who do not play for NSW??

Are we picking the team to win? or are we picking the team because we have mates in the side and we want them to have a crack at man of the series ??

I don't care what anyone says but if Starc gets picked over Jhye for this test...it prove to me that its a boys club
 

Gethelred

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Lets be fair dinkum okay.....

I have no issue with Boland playing I do have and issue with starc playing

Lets see the facts.......Jhye takes 5 wickets to win the test in the last innings on one of the flattest wickets this series ...taking 5 wicket is like making a hundred for a bowler

Jhye gets injured gets rested/dropped for tests 3 and 4 fair enough...Jhye is now declared fit to play

Starc has a great three tests but fails to deliver a victory on the last day of the fourth test takes 1/120

Starc has a proven track record of tiring in long test series and bowls worse as the series continues

Starc gets picked on his reputation of bowling with a pink ball...which is good...but jhye has just taken 5 wickets with a pink ball the equivalent of a batter making a hundred ..so are we really losing out if Jhye bowls ??

Jhye has shown recent form in the shield by taking 7 wickets at Hobart

Starc has not bowled at hobart for ages

Selectors have stated that is was wrong last year against india to play tired bowlers and that they should of been rested at some stage .....so does resting players only mean we can only rest bowlers who do not play for NSW??

Are we picking the team to win? or are we picking the team because we have mates in the side and we want them to have a crack at man of the series ??

I don't care what anyone says but if Starc gets picked over Jhye for this test...it prove to me that its a boys club
Yep.

Saw a stat this week; Starc takes wickets at steadily decreasing rates as a test series progresses. The only thing I will say in his defense is that perhaps we should be playing him as the all rounder in this series, as he's made some very useful runs and his stats bear out that, in this series at least, he's a better bat than Green is.

Perhaps spending more time on his batting and less time bowling might do him some good, too. Turn him into an ODI all rounder capable of batting as an explosive no.6.
 

The Passenger

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Sadly he won't be anything more than a flash in the pan.
He will plateau out into the peloton as every bowler (and batsmen bar Bradman) has in the history of test cricket.

But there's no reason he won't be a very dependable bowler over the next few years, particularly in England 2023. His biggest challenge will be holding onto his spot when everyone is fit and firing.

I think the selectors are totally correct to keep riding this Boland train whilst its full steam. No problems with them giving him to the 11th hour to prove his fitness. I know it's frustrating for Richardson given he was pushed into the rest category so quickly after bowling really well in the second innings at Adelaide. But Boland's returns in the last three innings are nothing short of incredible and yeah... you just got ride with it.

Richardson has a big future no doubt. He's much younger than all our quick bowling options bar Cummins, so once that backlog clears he'll be a permanent member of the quick bowling trio, assuming he can stay healthy. He'll get more opportunities along the way as well - After some fairly healthy years Haze and Starc are getting to the age where injuries start to become more of a factor, and the moment Boland has that plateau he'll drop back below Richardson in the pecking order.
 
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