4th Ashes Test England v Australia July 19-23 1930hrs @ Old Trafford

Who will win?


  • Total voters
    80
  • Poll closed .

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Apr 30, 2015
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When has it been ‘hard.’ Tell me.

On the first pitch the only real movement of any sort was for about two milliseconds on day one - they batted.
The second, yes it was greenish on day one. And Australia batted.
In the third test the pitch was hard and fast and didn’t move much at all. It had next to no impact on the match apart from helping Mark Wood.
This test it didn’t help anyone.

Cloud cover is the only thing that’s changed at all and even that’s just a thrashwank. We keep seeing stats about who has gotten the most swing:

You don’t think that’s as much to do with England playing a specialist swing bowler in 3 of 4 tests as well as two others who do it bloody well. Even Wood swings it.
Australia has one swing bowler and by and large have played 4 other pitch-hitters.

Wow, it’s gotten cloudy a few times. Who cares?

Not sure what your last point is about.

One of the key things everyone has given the English s**t about is declaring on the first day of the series. Not really sure why 17 days of play later they need to prove whether they can play brave cricket or not.
In England, "you don't look down at the toss, you look up." Cloud cover provides a definite boost to the fielding side in the UK, and England have jagged the cloudy periods all series.
 

frankrizzo

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Tell me when the conditions have been ‘hard’ for batting.

Australia had clearly worst of the batting conditions in first three tests hell even sky comms regular discussed it and accepted it its not open for debate its just accepted by pretty much everybody, if you think different thats your choice but im not going to waste time debating something so clear.
 
Australia had clearly worst of the batting conditions in first three tests hell even sky comms regular discussed it and accepted it its not open for debate its just accepted by pretty much everybody, if you think different thats your choice but im not going to waste time debating something so clear.

Exactly. Even the English commentators and heck even Kumar I want to be a Pom Sangakara admitted it
 

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frankrizzo

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It’s the same as teams coming to Australia and pissing their pants about day night tests. Get better at making the ball swing instead of looking for explanations about timing etc etc.

Pink ball tests are a tough one they are their own unique challenge especially with things like needing to sometimes declare early under lights so i have no issue with sides not wanting to play pink ball games when they tour especially if they are inexperienced with them and its a shorter series.
 
May 5, 2016
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Australia had clearly worst of the batting conditions in first three tests hell even sky comms regular discussed it and accepted it its not open for debate its just accepted by pretty much everybody, if you think different thats your choice but im not going to waste time debating something so clear.

And their evidence for this was?

The movement data.

Tell me when you would ever, ever - sunshine, clouds, green tops or dry pitches - expect a combination of Hazlewood, Starc, Green, Marsh, Boland and Cummins, to get the same amount of movement as Anderson, Broad, Woakes, Tongue, Wood, Robinson and Stokes, with a Dukes ball?

Better bowlers? Overall probably yes. As consistent at moving the ball? No.

Getting some clouds come over to accomodate the narrative doesn’t suddenly mean Australia has spent the series getting stuck on minefields.

Neither side has faced anything resembling genuinely tough conditions. Day one at Lords was the closest to it and to their credit Australia did very well.
 
Apr 30, 2015
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And their evidence for this was?

The movement data.

Tell me when you would ever, ever - sunshine, clouds, green tops or dry pitches - expect a combination of Hazlewood, Starc, Green, Marsh, Boland and Cummins, to get the same amount of movement as Anderson, Broad, Woakes, Tongue, Wood, Robinson and Stokes, with a Dukes ball?

Better bowlers? Overall probably yes. As consistent at moving the ball? No.

Getting some clouds come over to accomodate the narrative doesn’t suddenly mean Australia has spent the series getting stuck on minefields.

Neither side has faced anything resembling genuinely tough conditions. Day one at Lords was the closest to it and to their credit Australia did very well.
All anybody's saying is that England has had the better of the conditions. That is what happened, regardless of minefield pitches. When the cloud comes in, Broad and co are best suited to exploiting it. As a result, our batsmen have had to work damn hard to overcome it, something England have yet to worry about.
 
May 5, 2016
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All anybody's saying is that England has had the better of the conditions. That is what happened, regardless of minefield pitches. When the cloud comes in, Broad and co are best suited to exploiting it. As a result, our batsmen have had to work damn hard to overcome it, something England have yet to worry about.

I genuinely don’t believe beyond that first day at Lords when as I said Australia did do genuinely well to post the score they did, either side has had to work hard regarding any extra factors.

I think both orders have faced some good, consistent bowling at times and also some fairly uninspired stuff.

The luck factor of losing the tosses I agree with - not for any conditional factors but the idea that England can steer the game.
 
You have already pretty much..

3878765ec2d5a74c5576ca03a5fe7e1b4ea5b10d-16x9-x0y0w1304h734.jpg
Needs syringes in the cups.
 
I'm so unfit, that I get a stitch when my nose runs :).
Yeah, but ol' Bairslow looks like he was poured into his clothes and forgot to say when.
 
Does he?
Again, I get why people have a shot at him about the incident at Lords and his catching.

He seems immune to praise in many respects though because he has actually had a lot of bloody impressive moments in test cricket and all anyone seems to harp on about is his demeanour and his weight.

Like Englishmen who would only think of Merv Hughes as a loud mouthed portly fast bowler: in reality he was very very skilful and one of the most whole hearted quicks Australia has ever had.
Clues are going at 25 cents each, go buy yourself one.
 
Yeah, but ol' Bairslow looks like he was poured into his clothes and forgot to say when.
I was at a mate's house last night. His son in law is considering whisking his daughter off to Tasmania, and he's not happy about it. He said, "But at the end of the day, I can't tell them what to do - I can only offer advice. Be a bit of a back stop, if you know what I mean."

I replied, "Well just don't be a Bairstow."

He stared at me and said, "That was uncalled for." :)
 
I was at a mate's house last night. His son in law is considering whisking his daughter off to Tasmania, and he's not happy about it. He said, "But at the end of the day, I can't tell them what to do - I can only offer advice. Be a bit of a back stop, if you know what I mean."

I replied, "Well just don't be a Bairstow."

He stared at me and said, "That was uncalled for." :)
I bet he hasn't caught covid.
 

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Purple Suit

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All anybody's saying is that England has had the better of the conditions. That is what happened, regardless of minefield pitches. When the cloud comes in, Broad and co are best suited to exploiting it. As a result, our batsmen have had to work damn hard to overcome it, something England have yet to worry about.
Yep, England had a short burst of bad conditions when we got Pope & Root out at Lords in light drizzle. Besides that, it's almost been sunny for the Poms every time they are batting & they have won every toss.

The rain makes up for it though, it was just strange England were playing like it wasn't an issue last test. I secretly like to imagine that we were bowling pies with bad fields to keep them out there on day 3 of the last test but don't give Cummins or Ronald that much credit.
 
Aug 13, 2006
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Stokes is so far up his own arse. Surely he could admit that even a declaration 20 overs earlier would have probably reaped them a couple of extra wickets, given how demoralised we were, and then a much better chance to take the last four in 30 overs the next day.

If I was a pom, this would be really pissing me off.

Backing in your plans is one thing - refusing to even entertain the fact that you might have made a mistake (when you did, repeatedly) is another thing entirely.
 
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Because we got saved from losing the unloseable series. Cummins gets to say he retained the ashes rather than being the only Australian captain to drop a 5 game series 2-0 up.
So we were going to lose a 5 test series at 2 all.
Ok makes total sense.

As for Haigh, look at his tee and tell me he isn't a pommy troll
20230726_161800.jpg


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Filthy Sanchez

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wait, wait, wait - you're saying, let me get this straight:

If England WIN, then it will feel like Australia LOSE?

Are you sure about this? Sounds strange tho distinctly Bazballish

I'm,sorry if my typing error confused you


Going three matches without a win will make the Aussies kinda feel like they've lost. Particuarly as it's the last time so many of them will ever get the chance at that elusive Away Ashes win.
 
Mar 25, 2003
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4th, the hubris of allowing his mate to have the romantic redemption century, wasting 16 overs. They bowled 71 and got 5 wickets, those extra 16 could have been vital.
2-1 Ashes retained.
If the declared 16 overs that would have cost them about 100 runs so Australia would have been in front, assuming everything plays out the same way (which we'll never know)...

But as a general rule, I do agree they should have declared somewhere between 150 and 200 in front at Old Trafford.

Given the obvious time constraints that were coming, there was just zero point to scoring any unnecessary runs.

The ultimate scenario for England would have been winning by an innings and 5 runs with the rain starting about fifteen minutes later which would have meant Stokes got his declaration bang on.

In the end we were 5 down and looking pretty comfortable. I'm not convinced in the slightest England would have got us even with another full session, although admittedly the new ball was due in about 9 overs, however you can throw a caveat on that because it would have got wet pretty quickly so might not have been super effective. Anyway, the pattern of the match was looking like we could have held out for another 3 or so hours, which also would have given us a lead that would have taken England at least an hour to chase down. So the way it played out they probably need a full day over days 4 and 5.

The ultimate disaster scenario - which I posted whilst Bairstow was batting - was Australia finishing the match something like 8 down and 100 runs shy of England... Whilst I think we did look pretty comfortable at the crease this scenario was not a million miles from playing out. It would have been brutal on our hearts but now it's all said and done a pretty sizeable chunk of me wished we did lose three more wickets.
 
Sure would like to see the rest of that t-shirt before jumping to any conclusions.
It says "Douglas Jardine was a hero, and Australia is entirely populated by useless uneducated convicts."
 
Aug 29, 2010
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So we were going to lose a 5 test series at 2 all.
Ok makes total sense.

As for Haigh, look at his tee and tell me he isn't a pommy trollView attachment 1756436

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Mate take off your Aussie glasses for a minute, we were not even close to them in the 4th game and they've been improving all series while we haven't been. None of our bowlers average under 29 and just got smashed. Meanwhile if they drop Anderson for Tongue they're humming
 
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