Welcome Welcome to Hawthorn: Cooper Stephens

[Slysh]

To those who critique Stephens’ lack of senior games at the Cats and “exposed form”, it might be useful to note the Brownlow Medallist who just left us as part of that trade:

1. Was taken at pick #21 in 2011;
2. Didn’t play a senior game in his first year (2012);
3. only played 20 senior games in his first 3 seasons (2011 - 2013);
4. Only played 6 senior games in his third season (2013);
5. Played every game including the GF in 2016;
6. Moved to Hawthorn at the end of 2016; and
6. won a Brownlow 2 seasons later (2018)

Mitchell was dominating in the 2's and most people were confused by Horses refusal to play him at AFL level, main reason was his defensive accountability. Anyone who had watched knew he was on track to be an absolute gun.

Honestly no real comparison between the 2.

 

[MrPremiership]

I still don't have him in the 22 for Round 1.......at this stage

Will be one of the watches over the pre-season

 

[HedgeFund]

While true, Mitchell was also wracking up 50 touches in the reserves.

In the NEAFL, which was a lower standard than Premier Division VAFA

 

[burner1]

You’d think we’ll know pretty quickly what we’ve got - he’s had 3 years in a good system so will get a good view over next 12 months.

 

[TheFourPillars]

You’d think we’ll know pretty quickly what we’ve got - he’s had 3 years in a good system so will get a good view over next 12 months.

I'm gonna wait and see. He has had some big injury issues got a clean look at it this year. So will be his second year next year.

 

[grumbleguts]

How good is he at producing this look when interacting with the umpires... because that's what they teach at geelong.

 

[Sixpence]

I don't understand how the Hill trade is relevant at all?

Hill was an established elite wingman that had requested a trade home after becoming a three times premiership player at the club.

Stephens had managed several games in three years and was just traded because Geelong had brought in three players (to be four) that they seemingly rated more.

Hill was moving several hours away to the other side of the country in order to go home.

Stephens is from the Geelong area to begin with. He is moving away from his home for more opportunities.

The circumstances are completely different.

If Geelong rated Stephens enough and were desperate to keep him then they could have split the pick and used one of the later picks as a makeweight in the Henry trade instead. Seems they'd rather pick 7 than Stephens and a pick in the teens. The only issue there is there wouldn't have been much time to organise it all.

This is the part you are trying to pass off as fact.

The point is, we accepted unders for Hill to accomodate his request (his position and achievements and are entirely irrelevant). Geelong accepted unders for Stephens so they could get Henry. Had Stephens asked for a trade earlier in the week, he probably would have been knocked back. Asking at the last minute when they were desperately trying to get Henry over the line and Collingwood not moving with them or with us and Mitchell, meant they had little wiggle room. They were also in a position to accept unders as they made out like bandits in the Bowes trade.

Henry is in no way worth Stephens AND pick 25. They either overpaid for one, accepted unders for the other or both. You refuse to accept the possibilty they took unders and just assume they broke even, therefore they must not rate Stephens. At best you can really only argue that they rated Henry more than Stephens, but your comment was that they rated Bruhn and Bowes higher, which you have nothing to back that up.

Of course they'd rather keep pick 7. Who wouldn't? It's worth more than all 4 blokes discussed. Comfortably.

None of Stephens, Bruhn and Bowes have shown a huge amount, certainly nothing to suggest a definitive pecking order.

 

[JZedd]

To those who critique Stephens’ lack of senior games at the Cats and “exposed form”, it might be useful to note the Brownlow Medallist who just left us as part of that trade:

1. Was taken at pick #21 in 2011;
2. Didn’t play a senior game in his first year (2012);
3. only played 20 senior games in his first 3 seasons (2011 - 2013);
4. Only played 6 senior games in his third season (2013);
5. Played every game including the GF in 2016;
6. Moved to Hawthorn at the end of 2016; and
6. won a Brownlow 2 seasons later (2018)

Can you please elaborate

 

[JZedd]

Probably a more relevant example is our own Josh Kennedy.
He was simply squeezed out by our other senior stars...no opportunities.

So Kanga jnr went to Sydney. And we all lived happily ever after.

 

[OsakaHawk]

Been said before but he was in a similar position to Josh Kennedy when he asked to be traded to Sydney for more opportunities. They would’ve been trying to sell him on being patient with older heads in front of him and to make things even more competitive / unknown they’re bringing in Bowes, Bruhn and pick 7.

Probably a more relevant example is our own Josh Kennedy.
He was simply squeezed out by our other senior stars...no opportunities.

So Kanga jnr went to Sydney. And we all lived happily ever after.

I was thinking along the same lines, and I really hope Geelong regret letting him go the same way we rue letting Kennedy go. Looking forward to that

 

[Ned Ryerson]

How good is he at producing this look when interacting with the umpires... because that's what they teach at geelong.
View attachment 1548036

Needs more hands in the air and pouting when a teammate has a finger laid on him.

 

[Bad Boy Beama]

With people saying he is like Josh Kennedy

Been speaking to a good friend who is tragic Sydney supporter, he was of the option that Josh Kennedy retiring is a massive loss to them as nobody on their list played the way he did. Josh did a lot of heavy lifting and brought all his fellow midfielders into the game and made them better. If Cooper is anything like Josh then I am very fired up and if so he will be a very important cog for the likes of Duke, Ward, Moore, McDonald.
If Cooper can be the player which draws a couple of players to him and then dishes off the hand ball to another better placed midfielder we will be well served.

 

[grumbleguts]

Needs more hands in the air and pouting when a teammate has a finger laid on him.

Yeah, but it's the self righteous indignation AFTER a free has been paid against that prevents the next one being paid. No umpire wants that sort of stress in their lives.

 

[Flukey!]

Based on knowing absolutely nothing about him other than what I have read here...I feel he has to be a starter for R1.
We need another mid and on face value he looks to be the best option.

 

[m0zza]

C'mon let's be real. Stephens was contracted. They had no need to trade him if they were certain that he was going to be a key component of their future.

They obviously rated Henry higher for one, given they used him to break the deadlock as you put it.

They also could have split their Bowes pick for multiple picks, and then used one of as a makeweight instead of trading Stephens.

Stephens saw the writing on the wall. No one moves from the reigning premiers and regular top four side to a regular bottom eight side that's embarking on a rebuild, unless it's for opportunities that weren't going to present themselves at their old club.

Everything Cats did in trade period was about getting 7 and Bowes
Bringing in Bruhn and Henry
Keeping Their future first
7 is their earliest pick since 2006
They aren’t splitting that
They committed to Bruhn and Henry
You make that happen
They traded Stephens for Henry
Pretty reasonable to say they could afford that AFTER securing Bruhn Bowes and 7 even if they would have preferred to keep Stephens

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Been said before but he was in a similar position to Josh Kennedy when he asked to be traded to Sydney for more opportunities. They would’ve been trying to sell him on being patient with older heads in front of him and to make things even more competitive / unknown they’re bringing in Bowes, Bruhn and pick 7.

I don't think they would have been dishonest to cooper about his stance and what was best for his future game time, i cannot imagine we would have sold him certainty around an unclear future. I think the call was a relatively mutual understanding from both ends with him us happy for him to stay and see out his contract, but living with the fact he may be facing a scenario of four seasons on our list and still a reserves footballer and what that may mean.

I dont think it would have been ethical of us to put up much of a fuss about it especially given his career is at a cross roads in terms if getting regular exposurw in 2023 to continue his career.

 

[The Chad and I]

He can't be good bc another club traded/delisted him...
FFS - Our premiership teams were filled with "rejects"

People are strange.

 

[eldorado]

He can't be good bc another club traded/delisted him...
FFS - Our premiership teams were filled with "rejects"

People are strange.

Once you accept the self-evident truth that Mark McKenzie was 'asleep at the wheel', it stands to reason that any trades that were done were purely beneficial to other clubs, not us.

Heaven forbid that we might have actually planned and executed a good trade move off our own devices...

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Once you accept the self-evident truth that Mark McKenzie was 'asleep at the wheel', it stands to reason that any trades that were done were purely beneficial to other clubs, not us.

Heaven forbid that we might have actually planned and executed a good trade move off our own devices...

 

[Jazzfan]

You’d think we’ll know pretty quickly what we’ve got - he’s had 3 years in a good system so will get a good view over next 12 months.

Totally.

It's a massive year for Stephen's. Fourth year now in the system, and he'll get opportunities to show what he has to offer.

Does anyone know how long we've contracted him for?

 

[TylerDurden]

When's he due at the club? December?

 

[MrPremiership]

When's he due at the club? December?

yeah, still holiday season for the boys

Cooper was training for 5 weeks longer than our boys,

 

[Holy Rioli]

In the NEAFL, which was a lower standard than Premier Division VAFA

3 of the top 4 teams in the VFL this year were NEAFL teams...

 

[Ned Ryerson]

3 of the top 4 teams in the VFL this year were NEAFL teams...

He said was. The NEAFL 10 years ago meant Tom Mitchell could go destroy random Canberran, Sydney and Brisbane based sides - he wasn't playing the Lions and Swans reserves or Southport every week. When he put up 64 touches in that one game it was against a lesser Canberran side.

 

[HedgeFund]

With people saying he is like Josh Kennedy

Been speaking to a good friend who is tragic Sydney supporter, he was of the option that Josh Kennedy retiring is a massive loss to them as nobody on their list played the way he did. Josh did a lot of heavy lifting and brought all his fellow midfielders into the game and made them better. If Cooper is anything like Josh then I am very fired up and if so he will be a very important cog for the likes of Duke, Ward, Moore, McDonald.
If Cooper can be the player which draws a couple of players to him and then dishes off the hand ball to another better placed midfielder we will be well served.

Josh Kennedy was a brilliant player for Sydney up until 2022, but him retiring is not a massive loss for them now.

He wore the vest in Rd 20 and didn’t hit the park. Prior to that he had been playing VFL since Rd 10 because he’d been averaging 6k/6hb in the first 10 rounds.

3 of the top 4 teams in the VFL this year were NEAFL teams...

There’s no such thing as the NEAFL anymore.

2022 is a vastly different to 2012 - 2014.

No Sydney Uni, Aspley, Labrador, Queanbeyan, Mt Gravatt, etc in there nowadays.

It was a very low standard compared to the WAFL, SANFL & VFL. Hence the majority of NEAFL sides have slipped back to the next tier of footy since the merger.