Player Watch Welcome to Hawthorn - Emerson Jeka - delisted 2023

[TheFourPillars]

I can understand dropping him back down to the VFL for some acts around letting his man run-off him, little pressure etc. - but he's only being asked to do those things because the structure has failed and he hasn't been given a chance to exploit his strengths.

If we didn't give him such sh*t house delivery and tried, even once, a flat pass to his lead - then he marks and has a shot at goal and 'applying forward half pressure' doesn't frigging matter... Let opposition worry about us in the forward line instead of us worrying about them - attack is the best defence is the old adage right? (never mind it's also an exciting brand of football that makes people want to support the club instead of bleaching their eyes with the current format)

It's like me getting pissed that Lockett didn't slice the oranges at half time... it shouldn't be his job.

Defending is everyone's responsibility. Delivery into the forward line is a consequence of our list and the opposition pressure and defence.

 

[perrdan09]

Agree with this his efforts 1 on 1 were poor.
However watching him at box hill his huge strength is on the lead. Up the ground and inside 50.
That is the issue between box hill and hawthorn. Our forwards don’t lead at balll carrier (half the forwards fault half the midfield fault)
So as you said if he comes back in I hope he plays to his strength and leads hard up ground and to ball carrier. That’s when will see him play well like he is at box hill.
Great field kick on left and right foot also.

I noticed that on the weekend a number of times. Our KPFs seem to just stand around near the goal square for the ball to be kicked on their head... I don't know why they don't lead hard at the ball carrier...All from just watching on tv... so probably missing a lot of what is happening.

 

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

I noticed that on the weekend a number of times. Our KPFs seem to just stand around near the goal square for the ball to be kicked on their head... I don't know why they don't lead hard at the ball carrier...All from just watching on tv... so probably missing a lot of what is happening.

Even watching at the game. Plenty of space in the 50. We get a turnover. They're all leading backwards ala Gunston. But there is that much space all it would take would be one short lead at the man and an easy mark 45 out rather than 25 out. Frustrating.

 

[toomanysquibs]

I don't know why they don't lead hard at the ball carrier...

It's the Hawthorn way. We don't want to risk a quick rebound, so we bomb in long and high to cause a spill and either kick a goal or lock it in (in theory).

If you roll back tape to Bud and Rough having the ball kicked on top of them in games against Geelong, you'll notice the beginning of a trend.

We've done it for a long time now.

 

[TheFourPillars]

It's the Hawthorn way. We don't want to risk a quick rebound, so we bomb in long and high to cause a spill and either kick a goal or lock it in (in theory).

If you roll back tape to Bud and Rough having the ball kicked on top of them in games against Geelong, you'll notice the beginning of a trend.

We've done it for a long time now.

I don't think its the Hawthorn way exclusively every club does it. We just aren't good enough to consistently retain possession let alone have our forwards lead and hit up a target. We have done it a few times Breust, Kosi and Lewis all led up at the ball.

 

[Slick]

He does a lot of things well at VFL level. Hoping it transitions to AFL form in the near future.

 

[Brishawk]

I can understand dropping him back down to the VFL for some acts around letting his man run-off him, little pressure etc. - but he's only being asked to do those things because the structure has failed and he hasn't been given a chance to exploit his strengths.

If we didn't give him such sh*t house delivery and tried, even once, a flat pass to his lead - then he marks and has a shot at goal and 'applying forward half pressure' doesn't frigging matter... Let opposition worry about us in the forward line instead of us worrying about them - attack is the best defence is the old adage right? (never mind it's also an exciting brand of football that makes people want to support the club instead of bleaching their eyes with the current format)

It's like me getting pissed that Lockett didn't slice the oranges at half time... it shouldn't be his job.

In the first quarter v Carlton our pressure in the forward fifty was non existent and Carlton just waltzed out of the backline. More goals are scored from turnovers than anything else so everyone on the field must pressure. It is non negotiable.

 

[Beandip]

In the first quarter v Carlton our pressure in the forward fifty was non existent and Carlton just waltzed out of the backline. More goals are scored from turnovers than anything else so everyone on the field must pressure. It is non negotiable.

Whilst I agree that players must defend and be accountable - My point remains, if we actually allow our forwards to play to advantage, we force defenders to actually defend, and our forwards don't have to rely as much on forward pressure. They waltzed it out because we delivered straight to them without giving our forwards any chance.

 

[Yardie]

In the first quarter v Carlton our pressure in the forward fifty was non existent and Carlton just waltzed out of the backline. More goals are scored from turnovers than anything else so everyone on the field must pressure. It is non negotiable.

Agree with what you say but if we actually take the mark on the lead and kick a goal we don't need to apply forward pressure.

Edit: What I am trying to say is that we should apply forward pressure when we need to but we should also look to try and apply scoreboard pressure as the first option.

 

[Jazzfan]

I noticed that on the weekend a number of times. Our KPFs seem to just stand around near the goal square for the ball to be kicked on their head... I don't know why they don't lead hard at the ball carrier...All from just watching on tv... so probably missing a lot of what is happening.

I don't have any inside knowledge regularly, but I have been really reliably told Lewis' is being asked to anchor deep in the forward line. To contest long balls in. Not sure he actually enjoys that himself.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Whilst I agree that players must defend and be accountable - My point remains, if we actually allow our forwards to play to advantage, we force defenders to actually defend, and our forwards don't have to rely as much on forward pressure. They waltzed it out because we delivered straight to them without giving our forwards any chance.

Agree with what you say but if we actually take the mark on the lead and kick a goal we don't need to apply forward pressure.

Edit: What I am trying to say is that we should apply forward pressure when we need to but we should also look to try and apply scoreboard pressure as the first option.

Here is the Crux of the issue most times the defenders read the play better than our forwards do and end up in front. Either physically as in with pace or strength or just experience. It means that you must defend.

 

[The Jet From Poowong]

I don't have any inside knowledge regularly, but I have been really reliably told Lewis' is being asked to anchor deep in the forward line. To contest long balls in. Not sure he actually enjoys that himself.

Probably trying to get him as deep as possible so if there is a rebound it’s as deep as possible because Mitchs ability to apply any pressure is non existent

it’s time to give Jeka an extended run

 

[Brishawk]

Whilst I agree that players must defend and be accountable - My point remains, if we actually allow our forwards to play to advantage, we force defenders to actually defend, and our forwards don't have to rely as much on forward pressure. They waltzed it out because we delivered straight to them without giving our forwards any chance.

Agree with what you say but if we actually take the mark on the lead and kick a goal we don't need to apply forward pressure.

Edit: What I am trying to say is that we should apply forward pressure when we need to but we should also look to try and apply scoreboard pressure as the first option.

Forwards need to be first to the ball to mark it and kick goals. Jeka was not first to the ball and the only thing stopping him was himself. There is no rule or invisible hand of Clarko stoping him from leading and getting first to the ball. He just wasn’t reading the play and getting on the move before his opponent.

this is just the same discussion that was had about Lewis, only it has shifted to jeka. Everyone turns a blind eye to his flaws and actual performance until some other great hope comes along and it is repeated. Just give the players time to develop without fabricating reasons why their performance was sub par.

 

[phreeze77]

Here is the Crux of the issue most times the defenders read the play better than our forwards do and end up in front. Either physically as in with pace or strength or just experience. It means that you must defend.

I don't know .. I want us to be attractive to watch whilst we are trying to get games into these guys. Let them play football .. if we get smashed so be it ... we smashed GWS once by 160 points and their players didn't have any long term scaring. We smashed Port by similar in 2012 .. the next year they played finals and in 2014 made a prelim against us.

sometimes you need an ass whooping so you know exactly where you are. Take it trying to play football not lock down a game and limit damage.

We kick long high and hope. our forwards have been instructed to not move forward at the ball. When ever we've had success in this area and our talls have received the ball it because we've cheated out the back or the defence misjudged the flight.

 

[TheFourPillars]

I don't know .. I want us to be attractive to watch whilst we are trying to get games into these guys. Let them play football .. if we get smashed so be it ... we smashed GWS once by 160 points and their players didn't have any long term scaring. We smashed Port by similar in 2012 .. the next year they played finals and in 2014 made a prelim against us.

sometimes you need an ass whooping so you know exactly where you are. Take it trying to play football not lock down a game and limit damage.

We kick long high and hope. our forwards have been instructed to not move forward at the ball. When ever we've had success in this area and our talls have received the ball it because we've cheated out the back or the defence misjudged the flight.

We have been instructed not to lead? Go back over some of things that were said about roghead and franklin when they first came into side. The exact same thing they are not leading... we r playing a boring defensive game plan its almost word for word.

 

[Brishawk]

We have been instructed not to lead? Go back over some of things that were said about roghead and franklin when they first came into side. The exact same thing they are not leading... we r playing a boring defensive game plan its almost word for word.

I thought I would only have to live through that once while Clarko was coach

 

[phreeze77]

We have been instructed not to lead? Go back over some of things that were said about roghead and franklin when they first came into side. The exact same thing they are not leading... we r playing a boring defensive game plan its almost word for word.

If they aren’t leading on their own volition then they should be out of the side. No I think they are limiting the chances of quick rebounds to allow us to set up a defensive grid to hope to lock it in and get repeat inside 50s. Problem is we aren’t getting many inside 50s to hope for repeats.

 

[TheFourPillars]

If they aren’t leading on their own volition then they should be out of the side. No I think they are limiting the chances of quick rebounds to allow us to set up a defensive grid to hope to lock it in and get repeat inside 50s. Problem is we aren’t getting many inside 50s to hope for repeats.

Thats another problem. We just do not get any really good inside 50s our transition football is still a work in progress we either bomb it long or turn it over. Its hard to know when to lead beside the fact that the ball is coming in such a haphazard manner. We have taken marks inside 50 on the lead. It usually when we have been able to transition well and the kicker has had enough time to choose the right option. Conversely the forward can see the play unfold and then lead to open spaces of which some times there are none.

Its not as easy as telling the player to lead. Because if the ball is coming in on a particular side of the ground the opposition may already have numbers back and in front of our forwards. They have no where to go. Its learning the craft of being a forward creating seperation etc etc it takes time and we have players that have hardly played in the forward line together. One who only started playing in the forward line this year and not to mention most of the team is in a state of flux week in week out we are hardly a stable team. Still trying out players trying to work out who goes on in coming years. Our team work is horrible some qtrs. Non existent in others. Its the way it is with all teams that are in our position.

I can tell you that we are working hard out on the track. Last week we absolutely got flogged physically out on the track in preparation for being more physical at the contest, man and ball. Some of it paid off we won the contested ball and clearances. We just weren't good enough to create opportunities to score.

 

[CHUBBSS]

I can tell you that we are working hard out on the track. Last week we absolutely got flogged physically out on the track in preparation for being more physical at the contest, man and ball. Some of it paid off we won the contested ball and clearances. We just weren't good enough to create opportunities to score.

This is great to hear, was a trademark of how we trained in the last periods. Also shows our fitness base is strong to play the game we did after being flogged.

We will emerge from the season pretty resilient I think.

 

[The Chad and I]

It's the Hawthorn way. We don't want to risk a quick rebound, so we bomb in long and high to cause a spill and either kick a goal or lock it in (in theory).

If you roll back tape to Bud and Rough having the ball kicked on top of them in games against Geelong, you'll notice the beginning of a trend.

We've done it for a long time now.

I agree, but it's stupid with the new rules. The advantage is with the ball carrier, who can now side-step the mark without pressure and this opens up space for the forward to lead to. If we are still instructiing forwards to lead back towards the goals at ALL times, we are behind the competition. We have to back ourselves to hit the leading forward when it is to our advantage.

 

[toomanysquibs]

I don't think its the Hawthorn way exclusively every club does it. We just aren't good enough to consistently retain possession let alone have our forwards lead and hit up a target. We have done it a few times Breust, Kosi and Lewis all led up at the ball.

We’ve definitely held a forward structure better at times recently, and kicked to leading talls on the rebound. But it still happens a lot, that we bomb it in on top of them.

Not as many 1 vs. 2 or 3’s like we used to have also.

 

[toomanysquibs]

I agree, but it's stupid with the new rules. The advantage is with the ball carrier, who can now side-step the mark without pressure and this opens up space for the forward to lead to. If we are still instructiing forwards to lead back towards the goals at ALL times, we are behind the competition. We have to back ourselves to hit the leading forward when it is to our advantage.

I think we adopted it to cover deficiencies elsewhere, on top of it being a response to more frenzied run off half back.

hopefully it fades more and more as we get better.

 

[The Chad and I]

I think we adopted it to cover deficiencies elsewhere, on top of it being a response to more frenzied run off half back.

hopefully it fades more and more as we get better.

and we don't have the pressure forwards atm while we have tall marking forwards.

 

[toomanysquibs]

and we don't have the pressure forwards atm while we have tall marking forwards.

So true, you absolutely nailed it with this. Makes it seem all that sillier given the plan is a step above us given our current stocks.

Losing Pop and Cyril in relatively quick succession really hurt.

Both could smash an opponent in a tackle, take a screamer over taller players, or steal a crumb at pace and make a goal out of not much.

There's hope though, we have a few prospects on the list who have the same (well, similar) pace and enough talent at this stage to suggest they're a chance to make it. All just down to work rate and development.

But it will be a while.

 

[perrdan09]

It's the Hawthorn way. We don't want to risk a quick rebound, so we bomb in long and high to cause a spill and either kick a goal or lock it in (in theory).

If you roll back tape to Bud and Rough having the ball kicked on top of them in games against Geelong, you'll notice the beginning of a trend.

We've done it for a long time now.

Yeah that's a fair observation. But we are still getting cooked on the rebound. I dont know what is happening structurally, or maybe we just have lazy mids, but it feels like so often i see opposition get a turnover around our fwd 50 and they rebound in numbers. All i see running through the middle is opposition players with barely any hawks near them. Again, this is all just from watching on tv... but there is something that is not working well with out transition defence or setup.

This is all from keyboard/armchair coach