Which team list would you least want?

[JerryRapidRiser]

Collingwood. Salary cap issues will consign them to bottom 4 between 2021-2025. All hail Grundy.

 

[telsor]

No, the travel is a genuine burden. I just think that some West Coast fans think that having a lot of MCG games means that it’s a simple equation when it comes to winning a Premiership. I see it as a trade-off. Don’t travel a lot, but don’t have much home ground advantage either. Travel a lot, but have a lot of home ground advantage to compensate for it. It somewhat ends up balancing itself which is why there tends to be just as much non-Victorian sides in the top 8 as Victorian sides.

In finals, Non-Victorian sides have more advantage being the home side (1st, 2nd, 5th and 6th) than Victorians. Example: West Coast finishing 2nd and Richmond finishing 1st in 2018. West Coast hosted Collingwood and Melbourne at Optus Oval, which were two travelling sides. Richmond hosted Hawthorn and Collingwood, which were both MCG tenants like Richmond so no HGA at all for finishing first.

Victorians have more advantage being the away side (3rd, 4th, 7th and 8th) than non-Victorians. Example: Richmond finishing 3rd in 2017 and GWS finishing 4th. Richmond played Geelong at their own home ground week one at the MCG whereas GWS travelled for both.

I think that things pre-Grand Final are fine as they are. We all know the inequality of the Grand Final itself though. It’s admittedly skewed towards Victorian sides than non-Victorian sides and it isn’t really necessary to be an exclusive Victorian thing when it is a national league. I think it was a little silly to lock the Grand Final at the MCG for so long. In the NFL, they pre-determine where the Super Bowl is. The only problem is that their average stadium holds a pretty decent capacity. Perth Stadium, Adelaide Oval, MCG and ANZ Stadium are all fine to have a Grand Final, but is the Gabba good enough with a capacity of ~42K? I don’t know. Maybe if they expand its capacity to 50-60K then these 5 stadiums can be used for the Grand Final on a pre-determined rotational basis. Only then will the AFL truly have attempted what they can to make the competition a national competition instead of making it a little Victorian-centric.

If you look at the numbers (games won/lost), overall it seems non Vic clubs have an advantage through H&A (and subsequently get more home finals).

Having the GF in Vic seems like a reasonable trade off for Non Vic sides being more likely to get there.



As for ground capacity, it becomes a slippery slope. If you drop from 100K and allow 60K (Perth) to be big enough, then it's tough to argue 50K (Adelaide) isn't enough...and if 50K is good...42K at the Gabba can't be too bad, right?

Sure, each step down might be accompanied by an announcement that that is the limit, but a few years later when the whinging gets louder...

Soon enough (20-30 years), you're playing the GF on postage stamp sized grounds in Tas or Geelong....


Worst part is, that while the argument would be that this was 'for the fans', every step down would mean fewer and fewer fans could get in, because we all know the AFL will cut that allocation of tickets a lot harder than they will the corporates.

 

[KiwiRoo]

[QUOTE

It is not that easy to be the best MCG side. Travel isn't the only thing that makes a game hard you know.
[/QUOTE]

Don't think you'll be getting too much sympathy !
You had a great draw at the end of last year..and the lack of travel at the end of a long season is/was a huge advantage.

 

[Lsta062]

If you look at the numbers (games won/lost), overall it seems non Vic clubs have an advantage through H&A (and subsequently get more home finals).

Having the GF in Vic seems like a reasonable trade off for Non Vic sides being more likely to get there.



As for ground capacity, it becomes a slippery slope. If you drop from 100K and allow 60K (Perth) to be big enough, then it's tough to argue 50K (Adelaide) isn't enough...and if 50K is good...42K at the Gabba can't be too bad, right?

Sure, each step down might be accompanied by an announcement that that is the limit, but a few years later when the whinging gets louder...

Soon enough (20-30 years), you're playing the GF on postage stamp sized grounds in Tas or Geelong....


Worst part is, that while the argument would be that this was 'for the fans', every step down would mean fewer and fewer fans could get in, because we all know the AFL will cut that allocation of tickets a lot harder than they will the corporates.

It’s easy for them to finish high, but not necessarily easy for them to finish the highest. Victorians who dominate can finish with a record of 20-2 or 21-1. From memory, only West Coast finished with a record of more than 18-4 (19-3).

On the Grand Final topic, the problem is that there aren’t any 70K stadiums. Why they didn’t make Perth Stadium and Adelaide Oval 70K baffles me. I know funding may be limited etc. but if you refurbish or build a Stadium, you may as well make it fit to host a Grand Final even if it takes a little longer to build. West Coast have enough fans to pack out a 70K stadium so I don’t know why they did that.

Nevertheless, I don’t mind reducing to 50K-60K in Grand Final attendance for the sake of equality. As long as it isn’t filled with corporates like it currently is, then I have no problem. The current 100K attendances is filled with Victorians and corporates anyway, so maybe it gives non-Victorians who can’t splurge on accomodation + Grand Final tickets a chance to see their team play in one.

I just think that non-Victorians have a point nowadays. How is the final deciding game of a national competition is always played in Victoria? Why did the non-Victorian sides tick off on it?

 

[telsor]

It’s easy for them to finish high, but not necessarily easy for them to finish the highest. Victorians who dominate can finish with a record of 20-2 or 21-1. From memory, only West Coast finished with a record of more than 18-4 (19-3).

On the Grand Final topic, the problem is that there aren’t any 70K stadiums. Why they didn’t make Perth Stadium and Adelaide Oval 70K baffles me. I know funding may be limited etc. but if you refurbish or build a Stadium, you may as well make it fit to host a Grand Final even if it takes a little longer to build. West Coast have enough fans to pack out a 70K stadium so I don’t know why they did that.

Problem with building bigger stadia is that they cost money and both the initial costs and maintenance ratchet up pretty quickly as they get bigger.

Going from 50K to 70K probably comes close to doubling the costs.

Nevertheless, I don’t mind reducing to 50K-60K in Grand Final attendance for the sake of equality. As long as it isn’t filled with corporates like it currently is, then I have no problem. The current 100K attendances is filled with Victorians and corporates anyway, so maybe it gives non-Victorians who can’t splurge on accomodation + Grand Final tickets a chance to see their team play in one.

I just think that non-Victorians have a point nowadays. How is the final deciding game of a national competition is always played in Victoria? Why did the non-Victorian sides tick off on it?

Yeah, but it WILL be filled with corporates. The AFL isn't going to make the cuts to revenue required to do otherwise, especially on top of the losses they'd make from the smaller crowd (and really, few would want them to...or at least, they few would want the cuts to spending that would necessarily follow from that).

It's sad but true, that more people from WA are likely to be able to attend the GF if it's at the MCG than would if it was in Perth. (it might cost a hell of a lot more for them to get to the G, but still). Move it anywhere else, and the situation gets even worse.

The other big problem is that an event of that size can't be moved on short notice (the game can, but all the extras can't), so the only realistic option is to set the location at the start of the season....and just imagine the transport hell (and thus, PR nightmare for the AFL) of a GF in Perth between 2 non WA clubs (worse if it's two big clubs)...even one non-WA club would be several degrees of magnitude worse than the worst MCG game.

 

[Lsta062]

[QUOTE

It is not that easy to be the best MCG side. Travel isn't the only thing that makes a game hard you know.

Don't think you'll be getting too much sympathy !
You had a great draw at the end of last year..and the lack of travel at the end of a long season is/was a huge advantage.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t want sympathy, I want understanding. I am not denying that the consecutive MCG games helped us. However, that was offset by the fact that we did not play many games at the MCG to start the season off. First MCG game in which we had a decent home ground advantage in was GWS in Round 17. Hence, it wasn’t the only thing factor that got us the Premiership.

If it was so easy to play the majority of games at the MCG, then why are all of Melbourne, Hawthorn, Collingwood and Richmond not occupying the top part of the ladder every single year? It’s because playing at the MCG does have its unique challenges too. The MCG has many teams that are familiar with it more than any other ground.

 

[Lsta062]

Problem with building bigger stadia is that they cost money and both the initial costs and maintenance ratchet up pretty quickly as they get bigger.

Going from 50K to 70K probably comes close to doubling the costs.



Yeah, but it WILL be filled with corporates. The AFL isn't going to make the cuts to revenue required to do otherwise, especially on top of the losses they'd make from the smaller crowd (and really, few would want them to...or at least, they few would want the cuts to spending that would necessarily follow from that).

It's sad but true, that more people from WA are likely to be able to attend the GF if it's at the MCG than would if it was in Perth. (it might cost a hell of a lot more for them to get to the G, but still). Move it anywhere else, and the situation gets even worse.

There are cost limitations but ideally the Grand Final is moved around. As I said, the NFL have an average of high 60-70K attendees for the Super Bowl which would be the base limit. Couldn’t it take longer to build Perth Stadium to make it a 70K capacity stadium? It’s a genuine question as I don’t know.

I think the whole corporate thing is a little annoying. I get why, but it’s still annoying as a supporter

 

[KiwiRoo]

Don't think you'll be getting too much sympathy !
You had a great draw at the end of last year..and the lack of travel at the end of a long season is/was a huge advantage.

I don’t want sympathy, I want understanding. I am not denying that the consecutive MCG games helped us. However, that was offset by the fact that we did not play many games at the MCG to start the season off. First MCG game in which we had a decent home ground advantage in was GWS in Round 17. Hence, it wasn’t the only thing factor that got us the Premiership.

If it was so easy to play the majority of games at the MCG, then why are all of Melbourne, Hawthorn, Collingwood and Richmond not occupying the top part of the ladder every single year? It’s because playing at the MCG does have its unique challenges too. The MCG has many teams that are familiar with it more than any other ground.
[/QUOTE]


Be a silly thing to say it was the only thing that got you the premiership, but it sure didn't hurt . A big block of games at home at the end of the season when the players are tired with niggles is just gold.
Other clubs in the past have had good draws ( Pies pretty much do every season) but don't take advantage of it. Your guys did to their credit

Hawthorn, Richmond and Pies have consistently occupied the top of the ladder....but there's also so many other variables impacting the ladder eg Injuries, Sydney got COLA, Geelong play half their games at a small stadium they're used to playing. GWS had stacks of top 10 picks.


Im also more referring to the lack of travel as the advantage rather than the ground

 

[Coaster2012]

They were absolutely slaughtered by Hawthorn at home while Hawthorn were a man down and top four was on the line, yet for some reason they blame our fixture for their shortcomings. Such a weird supporter base.

Says the guy who has started his own thread on the bay just to bash WCE fans. You're absolutely obsessed with us, mate. It's really odd.

 

[telsor]

There are cost limitations but ideally the Grand Final is moved around. As I said, the NFL have an average of high 60-70K attendees for the Super Bowl which would be the base limit. Couldn’t it take longer to build Perth Stadium to make it a 70K capacity stadium? It’s a genuine question as I don’t know.

I think the whole corporate thing is a little annoying. I get why, but it’s still annoying as a supporter

Pretty sure they looked at making Perth bigger (80K?) but in the end they presumably figured the extra costs just weren't worth it.

Don't forget that Melbourne is about 2.5 times as big as Perth, so getting sufficient people there to pay for it is more likely (thinking more ongoing costs). While the capacity figure is a nice headline, it's the total number of bums on seats for all events is what pays the bills, and to get that, you need the population base.

 

[crows dude]

Wow I knew people didnt rate our list or underated it but I did not realise how many people. Weve got some good talent waiting. They were one game away from playing off in the Grand Final in the SANFL. Which Port made but lost to Glenelg. You will start to see this talent this year. JOnes will move into the midfield. But you've seen none of McHenry, Sholl or Hamill from 2018 draft and all will play plenty of games. Fogarty has had another pre-season. We still got guys like Laird, Smith, Milera, Lynch, Doedee there as well. The only thing im worried about is if ROB goes down we have Strachan or Frampton.

 

[Yojimbo]

Which team list would you least want ?

Thanks for asking, I voted Gold Coast because they have 31 players below fifty games and a very high
percentage of those are on zero games. This can create a sea of obligation when it comes to gifting
games and you can stay for five years and be paid much more than you would get at a better club for
eight years of service.

 

[Scanlens Man]

The answer to the question is more related to which team's football department and facilities do I least want. Put Gold Coasts list at West Coast and they make finals within a year or two

 

[Yojimbo]

The answer to the question is more related to which team's football department and facilities do I least want. Put Gold Coasts list at West Coast and they make finals within a year or two

Surely the constant travel and rock hard surface would destroy their young bodies, not to mention those strobe
lights that have you reaching for the Panadol.

 

[HARKER]

Oddly somehow that the numbers seem to be a fair representation of which teams may be seen to have the poorer lists going forward, as against the teams most simply dislike. It's not often we see this level of objectivity.

We can only view things as they stand today though, as the way they may stand even in 2 years time s things can change very quickly with the advent of future trading that may yet span out to 2 years in the not too distant future.

 

[AFDogs]

I voted Carlton and I'll stand by it.

Cripps is an out and out star, but by the time Carlton's list is in the shape it needs to be in, I doubt he will be at the peak of his powers. Betts, Simpson, Murphy all on the way out. Walsh is a gun I'll give them that. Weitering is solid but in hindsight was probably not the right choice for pick 1. Docherty is possibly cooked.

 

[Cotchins Hair Piece]

In no particular order - Hawthorn, St Kilda, North Melbourne, Adelaide.

 

[Engimal v3]

After some thought, I've come up with my 5 in order (in order of worst to best):

1. Gold Coast
2. Carlton
3. Richmond
4. Essendon
5. Melbourne

 

[Jez1974]

I am appalled that I had to wait 19 pages for this nonpartisan pearl of football wisdom. Your Fyfe voodoo doll must be taking up too much of your time

Fyfe is the team!

 

[gingernuts]

Sarcasm doesn't really work in a text format

my banter about sook cream got deleted cos off topic apparently. BF sponsored by devondale extra soft

 

[Sub_Zero]

Says the guy who has started his own thread on the bay just to bash WCE fans. You're absolutely obsessed with us, mate. It's really odd.

I wouldn't pay attention to him, he's a known troll and has been banned numerous times. The guy has issues.

 

[The Warlord]

Essendon - the Daniher injuries have screwed then. They not unreasonably built a team around having a gun power forward and that's not happening now.

Hurley and Hooker are great on song but are on the rapid decline with their battle weary bodies. Their replacements are uncertain in my book.

Not sure how they take the step up to being a consistent finals winning team without some pretty brutal trading/a rebuild.

 

[nacnud]

I wouldn't pay attention to him, he's a known troll and has been banned numerous times. The guy has issues.

Same with Niggles, who has constantly posted unnecessarily provocative (borderline trolling) statements on most threads yet cracked the shits when I mentioned “bay 13”. I hate generalising but it seems a lot of Richmond supporters have been like that lately.

 

[Teeko]

North Melbourne for me. Nearly all of the top 10 from their b&f will be turning 28+ this season (only Dumont is younger). Their mid aged players around 23-27 would have to be bottom 3 in the comp. Their kids are decent, but not good enough to make up for the other shortcomings of their list.

Next up would be Sydney. They do have some good young players, but the rest of the list is in shambles. They won't do anything for many years.

St kilda are next up. Just not enough quality on the list, but it wouldn't surprise me if they turned it around with some good development of their young players.

 

[The Nostradamus]

Essendon - the Daniher injuries have screwed then. They not unreasonably built a team around having a gun power forward and that's not happening now.

Hurley and Hooker are great on song but are on the rapid decline with their battle weary bodies. Their replacements are uncertain in my book.

Not sure how they take the step up to being a consistent finals winning team without some pretty brutal trading/a rebuild.

Plus even if they get Daniher right he will just leave them at years end anyway

Dons list is trash