Which team out of Adelaide, North and Hawthorn has the better youth?

[KiwiRoo]

*Swans reserves

still, good to see him out there after the injuries he's had. Marked everything in sight

of course he needs to show it on the big stage, but looks like he's got some serious tools

 

[Mixed Results]

I still believe in the talent that Thomas could be but Moore has just raised the bar higher that Thomas's peak to date (which makes the notion of Thomas being worth more than Moore AND Scrimshaw (who is very good in his own right) even more silly).

Moore has been statistically better over a full season, but Thomas had a slow start to his 2021 and then exploded from the game against the Hawks. Including that game, Thomas averaged more touches, goals and supercoach points compared to Moore this year. I suspect he'd be ahead in most counting stats.

There's credit to Moore for doing it over the entire year, but I don't think it's accurate to say that his peak has been higher. He also had an extra two years of development when compared to Thomas' 2021. Thomas will surprise a few next year who forgot just how good he was.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Moore has been statistically better over a full season, but Thomas had a slow start to his 2021 and then exploded from the game against the Hawks. Including that game, Thomas averaged more touches, goals and supercoach points compared to Moore this year. I suspect he'd be ahead in most counting stats.

There's credit to Moore for doing it over the entire year, but I don't think it's accurate to say that his peak has been higher. He also had an extra two years of development when compared to Thomas' 2021. Thomas will surprise a few next year who forgot just how good he was.

Thomas is a jet, hope he gets to do well as much as I give him and North s**t.

 

[SSSSSS]

The best argument for a priority pick I've seen in a while.

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Absolutely.

North are so far behind the 8ball that the joke is starting to get stale. They really need a PP and desperately so.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Moore has been statistically better over a full season, but Thomas had a slow start to his 2021 and then exploded from the game against the Hawks. Including that game, Thomas averaged more touches, goals and supercoach points compared to Moore this year. I suspect he'd be ahead in most counting stats.

There's credit to Moore for doing it over the entire year, but I don't think it's accurate to say that his peak has been higher. He also had an extra two years of development when compared to Thomas' 2021. Thomas will surprise a few next year who forgot just how good he was.

Apt post to username content .

Yes, I suppose in some ways it was a season of two halves for Thomas. From that point on - he kicked 16 goals in 14 games at an average of 1.14. Moore's 2022 season average is actually higher than that. If I take a part season (such as the first 8 rounds of this year), Moore kicked 14 goals at 1.75. From the Hawthorn game on, Thomas averaged 20 disposals, exactly the same as Moore's season average this year (well, 20.4 to 20.05 to be exact). Either way, Moore has matched for the course of 2022, Thomas' output in 2021 (even if we only take the 'purple patch' into account).

Regardless, these are semantics. Last season, Thomas showed his potential. He looks as though he has the ability to be a fantastic player and my prediction regarding him is the only one I have gotten wrong in this thread (I said I thought he would be 2nd or 3rd in North's B&F in 2022) - I hope he bounces back to that kind of form. I really just wanted to highlight what I also suggested at the time - that Moore (and Scrimshaw) were being underrated in comparison. Moore has had a very good year, at least the equal of the season that led us to believe Thomas could be the best of the lot (which he may still be).

Edit: Looked up the Supercoach scores too and basically, this is what came out of my analysis of what you said:

Thomas 2021 Hawthorn game onwards v Moore 2022

Goals: 1.1 vs 1.2
Disposals 20.4 vs 20.1
Supercoach 89.6 vs 96.0

As the above indicates, Moore has matched (or exceeded) for a whole season what Thomas produced when he 'exploded'. IT was just assumed that Thomas easily exceeded Moore from this 'explosion' period which further highlights that Moore is being underrated in comparison.

 

[Soggy2112]

Absolutely.

North are so far behind the 8ball that the joke is starting to get stale. They really need a PP and desperately so.

A priority pick will do nothing for them.

They need help in their footy department, until they get that right it’ll just be a waste of talent, and unfair to other clubs at the bottom, to give them a PP.

 

[Mixed Results]

Apt post to username content .

Yes, I suppose in some ways it was a season of two halves for Thomas. From that point on - he kicked 16 goals in 14 games at an average of 1.14. Moore's 2022 season average is actually higher than that. If I take a part season (such as the first 8 rounds of this year), Moore kicked 14 goals at 1.75. From the Hawthorn game on, Thomas averaged 20 disposals, exactly the same as Moore's season average this year (well, 20.4 to 20.05 to be exact). Either way, Moore has matched for the course of 2022, Thomas' output in 2021 (even if we only take the 'purple patch' into account).

Regardless, these are semantics. Last season, Thomas showed his potential. He looks as though he has the ability to be a fantastic player and my prediction regarding him is the only one I have gotten wrong in this thread (I said I thought he would be 2nd or 3rd in North's B&F in 2022) - I hope he bounces back to that kind of form. I really just wanted to highlight what I also suggested at the time - that Moore (and Scrimshaw) were being underrated in comparison. Moore has had a very good year, at least the equal of the season that led us to believe Thomas could be the best of the lot (which he may still be).

Edit: Looked up the Supercoach scores too and basically, this is what came out of my analysis of what you said:

Thomas 2021 Hawthorn game onwards v Moore 2022

Goals: 1.1 vs 1.2
Disposals 20.4 vs 20.1
Supercoach 89.6 vs 96.0

As the above indicates, Moore has matched (or exceeded) for a whole season what Thomas produced when he 'exploded'. IT was just assumed that Thomas easily exceeded Moore from this 'explosion' period which further highlights that Moore is being underrated in comparison.

You might need to check these numbers again. I had Thomas with 1.2, 20.5 and 96.5 for goals, disposals and supercoach respectively. But the sentiment of your post remains true.

I just thought it was strange somebody would be going after Thomas in this thread. If you're comparing the top-end, I think Moore and Thomas are thereabouts equal. I'd argue greater upside for Thomas, but also a much greater downside.

 

[hawkman]

You might need to check these numbers again. I had Thomas with 1.2, 20.5 and 96.5 for goals, disposals and supercoach respectively. But the sentiment of your post remains true.

I just thought it was strange somebody would be going after Thomas in this thread. If you're comparing the top-end, I think Moore and Thomas are thereabouts equal. I'd argue greater upside for Thomas, but also a much greater downside.

They aren't going after Thomas. It was the ridiculous notion that at the start of the season he was worth more than Moore and Scrimshaw combined.

 

[Mixed Results]

They aren't going after Thomas. It was the ridiculous notion that at the start of the season he was worth more than Moore and Scrimshaw combined.

Just because it's not true now, doesn't mean that it wasn't true then. If you had a look at AFL player ratings, Thomas was behind only Sam Walsh for performance among all players from the 2017 draft and younger. Noting that both Thomas and Walsh were from the 2018 draft.

Since then Moore has taken his game to another level, while Thomas has dealt with various injuries and offield issues.

 

[hk89]

Absolutely.

North are so far behind the 8ball that the joke is starting to get stale. They really need a PP and desperately so.

Might need a new poll. "Which team out of Adelaide, North and Hawthorn is in most desperate need of a priority pick". Hard to see North losing that one, and also hard to see how they could be winning this one AND be desperately in need of a PP. Makes you wonder what the poll would look like if we threw out any vote made prior to a few rounds into this season. A strong case could be mounted for the poll having it exactly backwards, With Adelaide having the best kids and North the worst based on what we've seen this year, but that's probably a bit exaggerated by how s**t North's senior players have been.

North have been slightly better the last few weeks, and given the AFL have proven to be very stingy with PP in recent years (especially if you're not an expansion club), that might be enough for them to play the wait and see game with North, and see how they go with a new coach and a little more development into their kids next year before deciding if they really need a PP. As much as like kicking a North fan while they are down, they should in theory have enough talent to climb out of their mess, but the rate of development needs to be addressed. Seems they might have been a little quick to move on older players, leaving a diluted leadership group (injury didn't help this year in that area too). I hope we don't make the same mistake with Gunston, very hard to build a winning culture without decent older players still around.

 

[hk89]

I watched the game and that report is pretty bang on. You live in some delusional world where Hawthorns senior players aren’t significant to their success this year.

Seems the coaches live in the same delusional world as Dominic03.

Coaches votes had Gunston , Newcombe, Maginness and Moore as best for Hawthorn, which is a decent match for what Dominic was saying.

Perhaps an apology is due, or at least a reassessment of which of the two of you is delusional.

 

[Golumless]

Might need a new poll. "Which team out of Adelaide, North and Hawthorn is in most desperate need of a priority pick". Hard to see North losing that one, and also hard to see how they could be winning this one AND be desperately in need of a PP. Makes you wonder what the poll would look like if we threw out any vote made prior to a few rounds into this season. A strong case could be mounted for the poll having it exactly backwards, With Adelaide having the best kids and North the worst based on what we've seen this year, but that's probably a bit exaggerated by how s**t North's senior players have been.

North have been slightly better the last few weeks, and given the AFL have proven to be very stingy with PP in recent years (especially if you're not an expansion club), that might be enough for them to play the wait and see game with North, and see how they go with a new coach and a little more development into their kids next year before deciding if they really need a PP. As much as like kicking a North fan while they are down, they should in theory have enough talent to climb out of their mess, but the rate of development needs to be addressed. Seems they might have been a little quick to move on older players, leaving a diluted leadership group (injury didn't help this year in that area too). I hope we don't make the same mistake with Gunston, very hard to build a winning culture without decent older players still around.

My vote isn't changing from Adelaide.

 

[Mixed Results]

In case people have missed it, in the second half of the season LDU has been averaging:

• 28.2 disposals
• 76.6% disposal efficiency
• 12.6 contested possessions
• 5.1 tackles
• 6 inside 50s
• 5.9 score involvements
• 493 metres gained
• 0.6 goals
• 5.8 clearances
• 112.1 supercoach

It's an absurd combination of inside work and outside ball movement. He has basically been one of the best contested players in the competition, but with the metres gained, score involvements, inside 50s and efficiency of an elite outside player.

I think this breakout clearly pushes this topic in our favour again.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Just because it's not true now, doesn't mean that it wasn't true then. If you had a look at AFL player ratings, Thomas was behind only Sam Walsh for performance among all players from the 2017 draft and younger. Noting that both Thomas and Walsh were from the 2018 draft.

Since then Moore has taken his game to another level, while Thomas has dealt with various injuries and offield issues.

I wasn't 'going after' Thomas. In fact, I specifically highlighted that I wasn't - that I hope he returns to excellent form, that I thought he would be top 2 in the B&F and that he may well still be the best of the youth from any of the 3 lists. I reckon I made the point that it was in no way a dig at Thomas about 6 times and that I only wanted to highlight that Moore has been underrated in comparison.

Also, it wasn't close to true then either. It may be MORE laughable now but it wasn't accurate then either (I'm surprised you are doubling down to be honest). Last season, Moore averaged over 15 possessions and contributed 40 goals (27 goals and 13 assists) and was top 5 in the league for tackles inside 50. Jack Scrimshaw averaged 21 possessions at 84%, 6 marks and 6 intercepts per game - he is essentially Grant Birchall with overhead skills Thomas' 18 disposals and 24 goals (15 assists) meant he had the best season of all 3. But for those who suggested Thomas was easily worth more than BOTH Moore and Scrimshaw COMBINED were well off the mark then and it looks even sillier now. That would be the case even if Thomas maintained his 'post explosion' form for all of 2022.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

I think Crows fans can now mount a legit case for having the best kids of the lot.

 

[The acurate one]

*Swans reserves

Yes that is correct but he did what Maj would do and the attack on the ball is the key, hard to stop a 200cm guy with a great leap and strong hands, regardless of the level.

As an aside I don't tend to get carried away with our youth like some do. Charlie I think has spent the best part of four years injured, we believe we have fixed those issues.

We will see of course.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Seems the coaches live in the same delusional world as Dominic03.

Coaches votes had Gunston , Newcombe, Maginness and Moore as best for Hawthorn, which is a decent match for what Dominic was saying.

Perhaps an apology is due, or at least a reassessment of which of the two of you is delusional.

Yes, and both coaches agreed on the exact same 5 players which doesn't happen often.

 

[Soggy2112]

I think Crows fans can now mount a legit case for having the best kids of the lot.

Fogarty and Berry’s rise, plus Soligo and Rachele’s emergence have been huge this year.

Unfortunately though, Schoenberg and Butts haven’t kicked on the way we hoped, there’s still great signs but need a big 2023 out of those two.

Getting Rankine would be huge, hopefully we can do that and still have a presence in the first round of the draft to keep it rolling.

 

[Psicosis]

Getting Rankine would be huge, hopefully we can do that and still have a presence in the first round of the draft to keep it rolling.

How would this be possible?

 

[Soggy2112]

How would this be possible?

I don’t know how, but it should be our aim, we managed to make it happen with Dawson last year.

I think something like this, based on current ladder position would work:

Our first (4) and second (22) for Rankine and their first (8)

However if we win the last two games and end up with pick 8 or so then we’ll probably have to let it go.

 

[The acurate one]

Absolutely.

North are so far behind the 8ball that the joke is starting to get stale. They really need a PP and desperately so.

My humble opinion is we've played this internally well with our list cuts etc.

The Hawks have won six more games than us, so well done you've beaten the..

* 18th placed side
*12th
*5th ( Tassie ?)
*15th
*11th
*17th
*18th
*11th

That is Brad Scott 101. I'd rather bottom out than finish like we did for ten years, beating ordinary sides for the majority of the time.

I am not suggesting you won't come good and you had a wonderful period over the last, well forever. I hate you but I do respect you.

My point was, glass houses and all.

 

[Golumless]

My humble opinion is we've played this internally well with our list cuts etc.

The Hawks have won six more games than us, so well done you've beaten the..

* 18th placed side
*12th
*5th ( Tassie ?)
*15th
*11th
*17th
*18th
*11th

That is Brad Scott 101. I'd rather bottom out than finish like we did for ten years, beating ordinary sides for the majority of the time.

I am not suggesting you won't come good and you had a wonderful period over the last, well forever. I hate you but I do respect you.

My point was, glass houses and all.

If the goal was to look like the next mid-2000s Carlton, you've played it perfectly.

 

[The acurate one]

If the goal was to look like the next mid-2000s Carlton, you've played it perfectly.

Ha it was to bottom out and build through the draft, not finish around ninth every year.
I realise the media have stuck the boots in, but we're not as bad as some think.
Time will tell of course.

 

[hk89]

My humble opinion is we've played this internally well with our list cuts etc.

The Hawks have won six more games than us, so well done you've beaten the..

* 18th placed side
*12th
*5th ( Tassie ?)
*15th
*11th
*17th
*18th
*11th

That is Brad Scott 101. I'd rather bottom out than finish like we did for ten years, beating ordinary sides for the majority of the time.

I am not suggesting you won't come good and you had a wonderful period over the last, well forever. I hate you but I do respect you.

My point was, glass houses and all.

When throwing stones at other people's houses it is best to be accurate, especially given your username.

Where is our win over 1st place in your list? You've also got us beating 11th twice, which didn't happen. I've not fact checked the rest of your claims, but perhaps a username change might be in order?

To add a little more context, we also lost by 4 points and 10 points to 2nd and third, and there is also our 1 point loss to 7th, and 13 point loss to 6th. IMO we've played this perfectly by being (mostly) competitive against the best sides, and thumping the rubbish teams like North, we've not let the kids think they are complete rabble. The majority of North's kids currently think they are rabble, and at the present minute they are right. If you think you've played this perfectly , I wish you luck.

 

[The acurate one]

When throwing stones at other people's houses it is best to be accurate, especially given your username.

Where is our win over 1st place in your list?

Haha - did you I must have missed it, but the rest are correct yes?
Well done, I stand by what I said , you're a million miles off, just like us.