Who is the best team in the history of the game to not win a grand final??

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Probably Richmond 1927-1930.

If Collingwood 4-in-a-row is the best team in history (there's another debate), then that Richmond side (who were beaten in 3 of those GFs, 1927-1929, and got knocked out in the SF by Collingwood in 1930) is probably the best side to miss out. They also lost the GF in '31 (to Geelong), but won in '32 and '34.

It depnds on when you define a team's era stops.
 
Caligo said:
I think the OP meant teams over a period. Not just one freak year.

2008 really was an aberration though, especially at the time. Maybe in hindsight it doesn't look so extreme because the core of the 08 team were there in 13 for Hawthorn.
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Point taken, they did win 3 Grand Finals with that core team, but I believe the 2008 team was the best they had and was playing the best football played by any of their winning teams. I also think they should've won 4 or 5 flags with that team. If i had to pick a team over a period that never won a GF then i pick Collingwood of 1970, 1973 and St.Kilda 2009.
 

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Hawksboy72 said:
The Eagles got beat by Fitzroy in the last Round of '91.
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yep 10 points... 99 to 89.

No team scored 100 points in a game vs the 1991 eagles squad.

That 1991 eagles squad had 19 wins and 3 losses. those 3 losses were a combined points total of 16 points. The 10 point loss to fitzroy, then a 3 point loss to North and 3 point loss to Carlton.

Lost by Hawks by 13 points in Subiaco, then lost by 53 points in the Grand final.
 
Wallaby said:
Probably Richmond 1927-1930.

If Collingwood 4-in-a-row is the best team in history (there's another debate), then that Richmond side (who were beaten in 3 of those GFs, 1927-1929, and got knocked out in the SF by Collingwood in 1930) is probably the best side to miss out. They also lost the GF in '31 (to Geelong), but won in '32 and '34.

It depnds on when you define a team's era stops.
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Made the grand final 7 out of 8 years between 1927-1934 for only 2 flags, a shame
 
Linda Lovelace said:
It is obviously between 2009 St Kilda and 2011 Collingwood.

Objectively it is Collingwood 2011. Had an even higher percentage than Essendon 2000. We only lost to the premiers. St Kilda lost random games to 8th and 13th in 2009.

But a strong, more subjective case can be made that it is 2009 St Kilda because they had to face a Geelong that had Ablett. And unlike Collingwood 2011, 2009 St Kilda beat them in the season whereas Geelong 2011 maintained its superiority over Collingwood the whole time.
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Those Collingwood 2011 and St Kilda 2009 teams might qualify as the best home and away seasons to not win the Grand Final if you are boiling it down to individual home and away season performance. But Geelong 08 is around the same mark. It just appears to have been a historically easy time to win a lot of home and away games. I think this is because some of the stronger teams had seen big advancement in their football departments coinciding with being in a strong part of the player acquisition cycle due in part for some of them to drafting benefits in the early to mid 2000's. Neither Collingwood nor St Kilda were particularly strong finals performers in those seasons. Geelong on the other hand were. But Geelong won Premierships in surrounding seasons so surely don't qualify.

Collingwood 2011 had proven barely any better than Eagles(when you take out home advantage) and Hawks in earlier finals, and were duly soundly beaten by Geelong in the GF. The Collingwood team that turned up to that finals series was not that good, certainly not on any historical level for a beaten Grand Finalist. This Collingwood team never won a Grand Final so by the wording of this thread title they qualify, but not good enough finals performance to take out this thread.

St Kilda 09 were probably a bit more worthy but also not a dominant finalist, having combined parity in scoring shots in 2 earlier finals against teams who had won 15 home and away matches with % 122 in this weak era where it seems to have been easier for strong teams to have much better home and away seasons than that.

My nominations from the AFL era of best team to not win a Grand Final are:

Collingwood 2010 - Dominant finals series smashing Dogs and Cats. Should really have won the Grand Final, sadly for them they didn't. Grand Final repechage performance franked the assessment.

Port Adelaide 2014 - Absolutely superb finals series, smashed developing dynasty team Richmond at home, beat a strong Freo team away with a dominant final term. Lost the PF to easy GF winner Hawks(who dominated their other finals) by a kick with 7 more scoring shots than the Hawks. Port probably should have won the flag in 2014, their finals performances were enormous against decent teams.

GWS 2016 - Very talented team. Beat top team Sydney easily in the QF. Lost the Preliminary Final by a goal to a Bulldogs team whose performance to win 4 finals was as good finals campaign as we have seen. But for the Bulldogs pipping them this flag would likely have gone to GWS.
 
Last edited:
Ging
Wallaby said:
Probably Richmond 1927-1930.

If Collingwood 4-in-a-row is the best team in history (there's another debate), then that Richmond side (who were beaten in 3 of those GFs, 1927-1929, and got knocked out in the SF by Collingwood in 1930) is probably the best side to miss out. They also lost the GF in '31 (to Geelong), but won in '32 and '34.

It depnds on when you define a team's era stops.
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Going back that far causes real problems though. Collingwood's wins in those years involved some very strange rules, like losing the grand final and still winning the flag or not playing a grand final at all.

Kinda makes the whole discussion moot in some ways.
 
Not to open too many old wounds but the Saints should have won a flag between 2004 and 2011.

We were leading at 3/4 time of the 04 prelim, 05 prelim and 09 GF and had the lead into time on of the 2010 GF.
 
Meteoric Rise said:
GWS 2016 - Very talented team. Beat top team Sydney easily in the QF. Lost the Preliminary Final by a goal to a Bulldogs team whose performance to win 4 finals was as good finals campaign as we have seen. But for the Bulldogs pipping them this flag would likely have gone to GWS.
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I know results can be reversed in finals played weeks apart but GWS touched up Sydney in week 1. Would have been a massive show against them in the GF.
 
Most of us really feared the Giants in 2016, but so far it's the closest they've gotten to a premiership (they made the 19 GF, yes, but they were a lot further from Richmond than the Bulldogs and Swans in 16).

This was the side they had to choose from in 2016 and 2017:
B: Heath Shaw - Phil Davis - Nathan Wilson
HB: Lachie Whitfield - Nick Haynes - Zac Williams
C: Tom Scully - Callan Ward - Josh Kelly
R: Shane Mumford - Dylan Shiel - Stephen Coniglio
HF: Toby Greene - Jeremy Cameron - Devon Smith
F: Steve Johnson - Jonathon Patton - Rory Lobb
Int from: Ryan Griffen, Aidan Corr, Adam Tomlinson, Harry Himmelberg, Jacob Hopper, Matthew Kennedy, Sam Reid, Joel Patfull (2016), Tim Taranto (2017), Brett Deledio (2017), Jack Steele (2016), Matt De Boer (2017), Will Hoskin-Elliott (2016), Caleb Marchbank (2016)
 

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Meteoric Rise said:
Those Collingwood 2011 and St Kilda 2009 teams might qualify as the best home and away seasons to not win the Grand Final if you are boiling it down to individual home and away season performance. But Geelong 08 is around the same mark. It just appears to have been a historically easy time to win a lot of home and away games. I think this is because some of the stronger teams had seen big advancement in their football departments coinciding with being in a strong part of the player acquisition cycle due in part for some of them to drafting benefits in the early to mid 2000's. Neither Collingwood nor St Kilda were particularly strong finals performers in those seasons. Geelong on the other hand were. But Geelong won Premierships in surrounding seasons so surely don't qualify.

Collingwood 2011 had proven barely any better than Eagles(when you take out home advantage) and Hawks in earlier finals, and were duly soundly beaten by Geelong in the GF. The Collingwood team that turned up to that finals series was not that good, certainly not on any historical level for a beaten Grand Finalist. This Collingwood team never won a Grand Final so by the wording of this thread title they qualify, but not good enough finals performance to take out this thread.

St Kilda 09 were probably a bit more worthy but also not a dominant finalist, having combined parity in scoring shots in 2 earlier finals against teams who had won 15 home and away matches with % 122 in this weak era where it seems to have been easier for strong teams to have much better home and away seasons than that.

My nominations from the AFL era of best team to not win a Grand Final are:

Collingwood 2010 - Dominant finals series smashing Dogs and Cats. Should really have won the Grand Final, sadly for them they didn't. Grand Final repechage performance franked the assessment.

Port Adelaide 2014 - Absolutely superb finals series, smashed developing dynasty team Richmond at home, beat a strong Freo team away with a dominant final term. Lost the PF to easy GF winner Hawks(who dominated their other finals) by a kick with 7 more scoring shots than the Hawks. Port probably should have won the flag in 2014, their finals performances were enormous against decent teams.

GWS 2016 - Very talented team. Beat top team Sydney easily in the QF. Lost the Preliminary Final by a goal to a Bulldogs team whose performance to win 4 finals was as good finals campaign as we have seen. But for the Bulldogs pipping them this flag would likely have gone to GWS.
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Did Collingwood not win the Grand Final in 2010?
 
Caligo said:
Ging

Going back that far causes real problems though. Collingwood's wins in those years involved some very strange rules, like losing the grand final and still winning the flag or not playing a grand final at all.

Kinda makes the whole discussion moot in some ways.
Click to expand...

Yeah there were two whoppers in there:

1. 1929 - smashed by 10 goals in the 2nd semi-final - progressed through to the Grand final anyway. May still have won it, but definitely easier than it should have been.
2. 1930 - this one is even worse. Beaten by Geelong in the Prelim final by 26 points. That should have been it. Season over. Instead, they replayed the exact two teams the week later.

I'm also fully aware that Geelong's first flag in 1925 was won by similar means to Collingwood in 1929. That was crap too.
 
Partridge said:
Yeah there were two whoppers in there:

1. 1929 - smashed by 10 goals in the 2nd semi-final - progressed through to the Grand final anyway. May still have won it, but definitely easier than it should have been.
2. 1930 - this one is even worse. Beaten by Geelong in the Prelim final by 26 points. That should have been it. Season over. Instead, they replayed the exact two teams the week later.

I'm also fully aware that Geelong's first flag in 1925 was won by similar means to Collingwood in 1929. That was crap too.
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It was a bad system rather than any one particular team or year.
 
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